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Arkos · Sep 21, 2015

First of all, this thread is not mainly about how much you like Salvation (although that will naturally factor into the discussion). Personally, I like Salvation way more than most, but that's not the focus.

What is the focus is this. There is an unfilmed alternate ending, as well as a misinterpretation of the alternate ending that was apparently circulated on the internet. These endings were revealed in an EW article which is linked above and from which I will quote.

Here is a rundown of the Terminator: Salvation endings

Ending 1: Theatrical Cut

This is the film as we saw it.

me lol said:
John Connor is mortally wounded and Sam Worthington gives his robot heart (aww) to keep John Connor alive. Boring, predictable, cliche to the point of cringiness, and disposes of the film's most interesting character. Not a fan, even though I am a big (relative) fan of the movie as a whole

Ending 2: Soft Version

This is a compromise/false/internet version of the originally intended ending (3, see below).

EW said:
“There was talk on the Internet about an alternate ending where Connor dies and they take Connor’s likeness and put it on top of Marcus Wright’s machine body. So that it’s actually a machine that’s leading the resistance! And the Internet caught wind of that and people went, ‘That’s bulls—! We don’t want that!’”

McG grins. “Well, that’s not really what the ending was.”

Ending 3: Hard Version

This is the originally intended ending.

EW said:
Actually, the bloggers were on the right track. Except, McG adds, the original ending actually went even further.

“Connor dies, okay? He’s dead,” McG continues. “And Marcus offers his physical body, so Connor’s exterior is put on top of his machine body. It looks like Connor, but it’s really Marcus underneath. And all of the characters we care about (Kyle Reese, Connor’s wife Kate, etc.) are brought into the room to see him and they think it’s Connor. And Connor gets up and then there’s a small flicker of red in his eyes and he shoots Kate, he shoots Kyle, he shoots everybody in the room. Fade to black. End of movie. Skynet wins. F— you!”

...

“It’s the most nihilistic thing of all time. And Christian went f—ing crazy, of course. He was insistent that it be done that way! He wanted the bad guys to win! Can you imagine the oxygen going out of the theater?! What just happened! It would piss you off! But maybe two years from now, you’d think it was ballsy. But in the end, it just felt like too much of a bummer.”

EW - Bale's thoughts said:
Was he really, as McG says, gung-ho to shoot that everyone-dies ending?

“I’m not the director,” says Bale. “There came to be a different option that almost everyone, except myself, felt was the better way to go. I took a bit of convincing, but you know, at the end of the day, you need a director to make that call.”

My question to you is, how would your perception of the film have changed based on these 2 alternate endings?

Personally, I think 2 would have been genius, while 3 would be so volatile that it ultimately wouldn't have been any more successful than the existing ending, and would be even more polarizing.

But that compromise ending (2), man. The John Connor that we think we know as the hero of the human resistance is actually a reskinned humanator (copyright Arkos 2015) that is intent on carrying out the real John Connor's mission/destiny as a way to ultimately prove his own true humanity. That really raises some interesting questions about what a robot/AI really "is" in my mind, not to mention the implications that it has for the Terminator story (without just totally blowing it all up ala Genisys). And it leaves tons of room for really interesting plots that could go forward and "improve" on what a lot of people didn't like about Salvation, and still satisfy our lust for a good depiction of the Skynet - human war. I also think it would have retroactively made Salvation a better film by elevating Sam Worthington's character, who as it is is interesting, under-developed, and ultimately disposed of as an easy out plot-device. It is one of the most frustrating things in my fandom that I found out about this ending and that they decided not to pursue something like it. What could have been.

But what do you think? How would the legacy of Salvation have changed if they had gone with a bolder ending? If you hate Salvation, would either of these improve it in any way, or would they make it worse? If you actually like Salvation, are you as frustrated as I am that they ditched these opportunities for the cookie-cutter happy ending that they went with?

I'm interested to hear GAF's thoughts on this. I did a search and found nothing, reveal that I'm actually working for Skynet if old.

TheLostBigBoss · Sep 21, 2015

Number three is a franchise killer in the sense that it basically ends any possibility of paradoxes.

Number two is the best and features a twist that actually makes sense and is logical and perfectly fits with the story and idea of John Connor

Volimar · Sep 21, 2015

That would have been EPIC!!!

Sure it'd have messed up the timeline, but still.

jmdajr · Sep 21, 2015

evilromero · Sep 21, 2015

I'm with you in that the movie isn't really bad but just missing an important kinetic spark that the other Terminator movies had (even T3 for that matter).

But I would go with ending 3. It's like the Alien 3 ending that would piss everyone off but years later be seen as a necessary way to end the franchise (attempting to at least).

I think they could've have continued on with this "Future War-era" franchise to be honest. A sequel could have potentially been even better and more focused. But oh well. Genysis.

demosthenes · Sep 21, 2015

3 would have been cool but as said above is a franchise killer.

2 would have been better than what we got for the reasons mentioned in the op.

Shahadan · Sep 21, 2015

Ending 2 all the way

I didn't get why people were screaming when it leaked. It's good

Korigama · Sep 21, 2015

evilromero said:
But I would go with ending 3. It's like the Alien 3 ending that would piss everyone off but years later be seen as a necessary way to end the franchise (attempting to at least).

There was nothing necessary about Alien 3 (or its insistence on bringing back Ripley in the first place).

But then, I feel exactly the same way about every Terminator after T2. More indifferent to Salvation than anything else, but that third ending still sounds dumb as hell. And the second one sounds like something that post-MGS3 Kojima would think up (not a compliment).

Redd · Sep 21, 2015

Ending 2 fits with timeline but I much prefer ending 3.

Shanlei91 · Sep 21, 2015

3 would've been hilariously awesome. And because of the timey wimey stuff in the latest movie they could have disregarded it as an alternate timeline that no longer exists.

Patryn · Sep 21, 2015

I still don't buy that they were ever going to actually do the so-called "hard version".

I think that was just them covering their tracks after the real ending (the "soft" ending) got leaked.

I literally cannot see a studio greenlight something that ends a franchise in that fashion.

In addition, aren't there tons of reports of what the original scripted ending was? The one that explained what the hell Salvation actually meant?

You know, the one where it turns out that Skynet had done the math and realized that humanity was on the brink of extinction due to overpopulation and other factors, so in order to save it it decided to kill off a large percentage of humanity, convert the rest into cyborgs and then have them live in the lap of luxury? So the end would have seen the heroes basically stumble into a resort village with a beautiful beach, and all these rich people being shocked or something?

Sephzilla · Sep 21, 2015

Ending 3 might have prevented Gensysysysysys from happening, so it cant be too bad

SJRB · Sep 21, 2015

Either of those alternate endings would be better than what we've got.

I like 3 the most though, just because it's so surreal.

Patryn said:
I still don't buy that they were ever going to actually do the so-called "hard version".

I think that was just them covering their tracks after the real ending (the "soft" ending) got leaked.

I literally cannot see a studio greenlight something that ends a franchise in that fashion.

Well it's a franchise about time travel, there's nothing that can't be retconned. Or should I say "altered".

Arkos · Sep 21, 2015

Patryn said:
I still don't buy that they were ever going to actually do the so-called "hard version".

I think that was just them covering their tracks after the real ending (the "soft" ending) got leaked.

I literally cannot see a studio greenlight something that ends a franchise in that fashion.

But that's even worse if they ditched 2 and it actually existed

((

gazele · Sep 21, 2015

Never heard that second one before, but I really like it

- J - D - · Sep 21, 2015

Regarding ending 3, why would the Marcus Connor bot just start shooting everyone? Is there a reason it would do that. Sounds like shock value for shock value.

Sephzilla · Sep 21, 2015

But really though, the whole "John Connor actually died and someone replaced him" ending is really stupid. Especially since Connor in Salvation isn't exactly a super highly regarded hero yet and isn't even leading the resistance. But they apparently had a real hard on for wanting Connor as a Terminator

since they ended up doing it in Terminator 5 anyway

SolidusDave · Sep 21, 2015

I strongly dislike that many people don't like a movie if there isn't a happy end.

People wanting nice things is why we can't have nice things

Sephzilla said:
But really though, the whole "John Connor actually died and someone replaced him" ending is really stupid. Especially since Connor in Salvation isn't exactly a super highly regarded hero yet and isn't even leading the resistance.

To me that actually makes the most sense, as it would explain why out of all people "Connor" is the one that enables humanity to resist. He would only really start leading once he's replaced by a machine yet he still would need to send back Reese to set the whole thing into motion.

Patryn · Sep 21, 2015

Arkos said:
But that's even worse if they ditched 2 and it actually existed ((

See I don't think it actually existed.

I edited my post above to have what was apparently the original scripted ending, then I think they were getting ready to film (or did film) the "soft" version, then that leaked and the public freaked, so they compromised on the theatrical ending.

All the talk about the "hard" ending is just a joke for McG to throw around in press interviews and never anything they ever seriously considered.

BladeoftheImmortal · Sep 21, 2015

Salvation as it is, is already better than genysis. So a better ending would have made it great.

Pop-O-Matic · Sep 21, 2015

Ending 2 reminds me of a blog post Spoony did years back about and idea he had about the real John Connor having died years ago and other resistance leaders just used his name as some sort of inspirational thing. Said blog post was about how he should never be allowed to write movies because said idea is terrible.

NerdEyeBlind · Sep 21, 2015

Sephzilla said:
Ending 3 might have prevented Gensysysysysys from happening, so it cant be too bad

When in doubt, Bale over McG every time.

ElRenoRaven · Sep 21, 2015

Personally I liked Salvation. I've liked all the Terminator movies. I do think though that the 2nd ending would actually have made for a good ending. 3 would have probably made me forever hate the franchise. It's a shame though that we'll never see what could have been. Salvation was supposed to be a start of a new trilogy.

Patryn · Sep 21, 2015

Yeah, here's a more in-depth article about the "Skynet is good!" ending.

JBourne · Sep 21, 2015

I would've loved the third ending, with a hard cut to black on the final shot.

Sulik2 · Sep 21, 2015

Number 2 would have been kind of awesome. Solves a bunch of paradox issues as well.

Human_me · Sep 21, 2015

Patryn said:
Yeah, here's a more in-depth article about the "Skynet is good!" ending.

I was going to mention that.
I liked that idea of skynet.

Shahadan · Sep 21, 2015

Sephzilla said:
But really though, the whole "John Connor actually died and someone replaced him" ending is really stupid. Especially since Connor in Salvation isn't exactly a super highly regarded hero yet and isn't even leading the resistance. But they apparently had a real hard on for wanting Connor as a Terminator

since they ended up doing it in Terminator 5 anyway

That would be the point. Machine Connor would be a more suitable leader and would explain how he was so good at it. And since John Connor is a more of a symbol rather than an actual person in the movies, him not having actually existed as a great human resistance leader is on point.

Napoleonthechimp · Sep 21, 2015

Why would Skynet wait until Marcus looks like Connor before killing everyone? It seemed like he had ample opportunity before that to do it.

Volimar · Sep 21, 2015

Napoleonthechimp said:
Why would Skynet wait until Marcus looks like Connor before killing everyone? It seemed like he had ample opportunity before that to do it.

Because now he can infiltrate the rest of the resistance.

Shahadan · Sep 21, 2015

Volimar said:
Because now he can infiltrate the rest of the resistance.

And eventually learn what it is to be human or some shit and end up being John Connor anyway, leading back to ending 2. Salvation was supposed to be the start of a trilogy at the time, Ending 3 would not have been a true ending.

evilromero · Sep 21, 2015

Korigama said:
There was nothing necessary about Alien 3 (or its insistence on bringing back Ripley in the first place).

But then, I feel exactly the same way about every Terminator after T2. More indifferent to Salvation than anything else, but that third ending still sounds dumb as hell. And the second one sounds like something that post-MGS3 Kojima would think up (not a compliment).

Poor choice of words on my part. I think years later we'd look back and like anything be indifferent since it doesn't alter the quality of the preceding films. And full disclosure, I really enjoy Alien 3. It's actually one of the most re-watchable films in the series in my opinion. The Assembly Cut on Blu-Ray is just magnificent. A beautiful film with some very powerful moments. It may have pulled the rug out from under the franchise but decades later I appreciate it for what it is way more.

Unfortunately, Salvation is just not a terribly good film. It's somewhere in the middle. It isn't aesthetically beautiful like Prometheus so it has a lot less going for it in the long run.

Dead · Sep 21, 2015

The whole movie is a Frankenstein of rewrites and reshoots anyways.

Helena Bonham Carter was supposed to a human terminator/human hybrid, the entire Skynet factory was supposed to be full of Hybrids (you see a silhouette of a few in the final film), not to mention the ending reshot because of internet outrage.

It had the seeds and elements to be a good Terminator movie, unfortunately McG wasn't the right director, Christian Bale wasn't the right Connor, among other things.

Fancy Clown · Sep 21, 2015

It wouldn't have saved the movie but it would have been memorable, certainly.

Auto-Reply · Sep 21, 2015

I don't really care if it's not fitting into the established timeline, time travel into the past is illogical anyway so having skynet coming out on top would have been cool.... I barely remember anything from Salvation tbh so that would have been something to remember.

Sephzilla · Sep 21, 2015

Shahadan said:
That would be the point. Machine Connor would be a more suitable leader and would explain how he was so good at it. And since John Connor is a more of a symbol rather than an actual person in the movies, him not having actually existed as a great human resistance leader is on point.

Why go through the entire process of making someone else look like John Connor if he's not even the real leader or symbol of the resistance yet? Seems like an awful lot of effort for something that might not even pan out. If he was already leading the resistance and the entire resistance could literally not function (or not want to carry on) without John Connor, I could understand that a little more.

FoneBone · Sep 21, 2015

Dead said:
The whole movie is a Frankenstein of rewrites and reshoots anyways.

Helena Bonham Carter was supposed to a human terminator/human hybrid, the entire Skynet factory was supposed to be full of Hybrids (you see a silhouette of a few in the final film), not to mention the ending reshot because of internet outrage.

It had the seeds and elements to be a good Terminator movie, unfortunately McG wasn't the right director, Christian Bale wasn't the right Connor, among other things.

Yeah, if you read the CHUD link above, indications are that large portions of the script were rewritten more or less on the fly.

The movie was one of several around that time that were probably compromised by the 2007-08 writers' strike (see also: Transformers: RotF); they weren't filmed during the strike, but were rushed into production after, with scripts that simply weren't ready.

Spine_Ripper · Sep 21, 2015

I don't know how killing the leaders of the resistance means actually killing the resistance. Should have gone with ending 3. Definitely would have been a great reaction to see lol.

dankir · Sep 21, 2015

For some reason I thought this was about the Genesys, so really confused about the character names and asking Bale his opinion.

I think it would have been great if they killed everybody in the end. Maybe we would have never gotten Genesys then?

watershed · Sep 21, 2015

Patryn said:
I still don't buy that they were ever going to actually do the so-called "hard version".

I think that was just them covering their tracks after the real ending (the "soft" ending) got leaked.

I literally cannot see a studio greenlight something that ends a franchise in that fashion.

In addition, aren't there tons of reports of what the original scripted ending was? The one that explained what the hell Salvation actually meant?

You know, the one where it turns out that Skynet had done the math and realized that humanity was on the brink of extinction due to overpopulation and other factors, so in order to save it it decided to kill off a large percentage of humanity, convert the rest into cyborgs and then have them live in the lap of luxury? So the end would have seen the heroes basically stumble into a resort village with a beautiful beach, and all these rich people being shocked or something?

Yeah I remember reading about this plot twist. This idea of salvation plus ending 2 would have been great. I like the idea of the resistance still fighting skynet even after seeing the human resort because humans believe in self-determination and don't want to be treated like zoo animals or an endangered species.

Nudull · Sep 21, 2015

They really don't know what to do with this franchise anymore, do they?

rokkerkory · Sep 21, 2015

I liked the way the film ended, it was pretty good for me

edit: it was good enough for me, time to move on

AHA-Lambda · Sep 21, 2015

Yeah, I'm happy with 1 after reading both of those =/

Arkos · Sep 21, 2015

Patryn said:
I still don't buy that they were ever going to actually do the so-called "hard version".

I think that was just them covering their tracks after the real ending (the "soft" ending) got leaked.

I literally cannot see a studio greenlight something that ends a franchise in that fashion.

In addition, aren't there tons of reports of what the original scripted ending was? The one that explained what the hell Salvation actually meant?

You know, the one where it turns out that Skynet had done the math and realized that humanity was on the brink of extinction due to overpopulation and other factors, so in order to save it it decided to kill off a large percentage of humanity, convert the rest into cyborgs and then have them live in the lap of luxury? So the end would have seen the heroes basically stumble into a resort village with a beautiful beach, and all these rich people being shocked or something?

watershed said:
Yeah I remember reading about this plot twist. This idea of salvation plus ending 2 would have been great. I like the idea of the resistance still fighting skynet even after seeing the human resort because humans believe in self-determination and don't want to be treated like zoo animals or an endangered species.

Holy holy that might be even better. I wasn't reading the intarwebz at the time and never heard about this. That's damn interesting.

Protome · Sep 21, 2015

I like the concept of the third one but it also kinda implies that Bond villain plan level of dumb luck and manipulation to get it to work for Skynet.

Given that in the previous movies Skynet's entire plans revolve around "Let's send a robot to kill someone" it'd be quite hard to swallow.

NealMcCauley · Sep 21, 2015

I always thought ending 3 began as a joke but then Bale heard it and wanted to make it happen to everyone's befuddlement.

CygnusXS · Sep 21, 2015

Salvation was fine and I don't think ending 2 would have made it any better for me. Ending 3 would have made it worse though.

What would have made it better would have been a script that was just about Marcus Wright and friends fighting their way to the resistance. No resistance politics, no dumb plan to end the war, and no Christian Bale. He brought the whole movie down.

zeemumu · Sep 21, 2015

I would like the premise of 2, but end with the red eye flicker because that's cool.

inm8num2 · Sep 21, 2015

Only watched Salvation a few months ago, never having had any interest in it. The movie was awful, and those alternate endings are even worse. Regrettably, Genisys came along years later to complete McG's horrid vision and fully destroy the John Connor character (as he exists in these post-T2 fan fiction movies).

Plinko · Sep 21, 2015

3 would have made absolutely zero sense.

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