From CFACT:
Not Welcome: UN climate summit in Poland greeted by 50,000 angry Poles rallying against UN
As more than 50,000 enthusiastic Poles gathered in downtown Warsaw on Monday to celebrate National Independence Day, with millions more watching on live television, CFACT president David Rothbard was invited to the stage to deliver an impassioned address celebrating freedom and warning against the dangerous and oppressive climate agenda of the UN.
See video, CFACT warns 50,000+ against UN climate agenda:
Before what was one of the largest audiences to ever hear a speech denouncing UN global warming policies, Rothbard said he was honored to stand with the Poles in a ānew battle for freedom against those who would use environmental and climate alarmism to steal away our liberties and give international bureaucrats control over our energy sources, our daily lives, our prosperity, and our national sovereignty.ā
The address was carried live on national television and covered by a large number of international media outlets. It took place just as the UN was kicking off its COP19 climate conference a few kilometers away.
Rothbard noted that at last yearās COP meeting, UN climate chief Christiana Figueres said that what the UN was undertaking is āa complete economic transformation of the world.ā
āThis is not good news for those who love freedom, and it is not good news for Poland,ā Rothbard asserted.
āStanding next to a CFACT banner that read āNo to UN Climate Hypeā in Polish and surrounded by throngs who wore CFACT stickers bearing the same message in Polandās distinctive red and white, the crowd gave hearty consent to Rothbardās message.
He also quoted from the Book of Proverbs that āthe wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are bold as a lion,ā noting that āthe environmentalists and the bureaucrats donāt want to debate these issues because they know they are deceiving the world.ā
āThere hasnāt been any global warming in more than 15 years,ā he noted, āand this is simply an excuse for more government oppression.ā
āWe stand for freedom. We stand for opportunity. We stand for our families. And we stand for a strong and prosperous future. Together let us be bold as a lion,ā he concluded.
The rally took place one day after CFACT keynoted a climate policy conference in Warsaw co-sponsored by Solidarity, the Institute for Globalization, and other Polish and European NGOs. There, members of the European Parliament, along with representatives from the U.S., Italy, Sweden, Hungary, and Poland formally signed the āWarsaw Declarationā calling on the UN to discontinue work on a new treaty until a genuine āscientific consensus is reached on the phenomenon of so-called global warming.ā
The UN made a big mistake choosing Poland to host its global warming treaty summit.Ā The Poles see right through warming propaganda. Enduring generations of socialism has left them with a deep distaste for propaganda and bureaucratic control. Polish prosperity was blocked first by war and then by ideology. Poland deserves freedom and prosperity and knows it canāt move forward without energy. The brave Poles are not about to cede their sovereignty to UN control.
Polish feelings about the UN climate treaty echo what Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher told the Soviet Union. āLet Poland be Poland!ā
CFACT, which has been an officially recognized NGO at UN conferences for nearly two decades, will be in Warsaw throughout the two weeks of COP 19. Its delegation will be headlined by Apollo VII astronaut Col. Walter Cunningham who is highly critical of UN climate science.
Excellent work CFACT.
Slowly but surely the tide of public opinion is turning against the fear mongery of the CAGW movement, and particularly against the panic-stricken carbon strangulation economic policies that are hurting so many.
Do we have independent verification for this? Where the people out there for something else, to which somebody attached climate skepticism, a topic maybe of minimal interest to the mass of people in the square?
I am afraid we need to be more skeptical about this kind of claims than any of Gore’s or Romm’s.
Were not Where…oops
I lookm forward to the coverage of the rally on the BBC and other ‘unbiased’ media outlets.
“Later in the afternoon, nationalists and right wing groups held an ‘Independence March’. Organisers expected 50,000 to attend, and the demonstration was heavily policed after violence erupted for the last two years in Warsaw”
. – See more at: http://www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/152550,Poland-celebrates-Independence-Day#sthash.0Q6pWul5.dpuf
Cheer them on. Cheer again.
“Violence and hooliganism marred Poland’s celebrations of Independence Day on Monday. Right-wing and nationalist activists held what they called the āIndependence March,ā which started in the center of Warsaw in the afternoon. Over the next two hours the participants were involved in several violent incidents took place.
Fire was set to cars and other objects in the city, including a police booth in front of the Russian Embassy and an artwork installation (a large rainbow) at Plac Zbawiciela.
Warsaw authorities withdrew their approval of the march, but the gathering continued. Some 19 people are said to have been injured in the incidents, including 12 police officers. Seventy-two people were arrested in connection with the disturbances.”
http://www.wbj.pl/article-64270-violence-overshadows-independence-day-celebrations.html
Long live Poland, freedom and solidarity! This time there will be no Molotov-Ribbentrop pact – the Russians see sense on this issue also. Sadly the UK are playing for the other side this time.
GO POLAND! YAH!
This is great! This is what I’ve wanted to see for a long time! Now these are real protesters, not rent-a-mob spaced out to look like more and cameras taking angled pictures so as not to show the gaps.
I am so thrilled this was seen live on television and that its been picked up by the international media. It should be an interesting two weeks for those in the thrall of CAGW and doing it for the UN Cause.
I pray this idea spreads across Europe and the globe. Sitting back and waiting for the alarmists to tire and go away peacefully isn’t going to do a thing – people have to get out there and get their message heard.
NO to the UN.
Great news! Having had to stomach 40 years of socialist propaganda, they can easily spot something similar coming down the track. Green is the new red!
The UN climate agenda is a giant, freedom-killing, economy-trashing machine waging war against all of humanity. We must rage, rage against the machine.
The people of Poland know what totalitarianism and the rule of bureaucracy mean. Will Poland help to save Europe from itself even though Europe has always failed Poland?
I hope this is accurate. Itās so welcome, Iām almost afraid to believe it.
I hate to be a wet rag, but I didn’t see many people in the audience clapping, let alone cheering…Great that the message is getting out, but I don’t know how much of it actually soaked in….
“hate to be a wet rag, but I didnāt see many people in the audience clapping, let alone cheering
Yes, they barely seemed to know what was being said. Most of them looked puzzled.
omnologos says:
November 12, 2013 at 3:39 pm “Do we have independent verification for this? Where the people out there for something else, to which somebody attached climate skepticism…”
The first sentence says, “As more than 50,000 enthusiastic Poles gathered in downtown Warsaw on Monday to celebrate National Independence Day, with millions more watching on live television, CFACT president David Rothbard was invited to the stage to deliver an impassioned address celebrating freedom and warning against the dangerous and oppressive climate agenda of the UN.”
I think it is not more skepticism needed, but a little reading comprehension. On the subject of independence, CFACT was able to present one of the greatest threats to independence – rule by unaccountable, unelected globalist bureaucracies and unscrupulous scientists under the guise of environmentalism.
Yesterday Australia! Today Poland! Tomorrow the world!
Ā”OjalĆ”!
I am truly in line with the aim of CFACT but I have to agree with omnologos in his earlier post – I, too, am puzzled by the seemingly unenthusiastic response to Rothbard’s speech. Is that typical of the Poles, or were they restrained by the presence of police due to previous acts of random violence at gatherings? Or were they there primarily to celebrate their National Independence Day? I’m just looking for accuracy here. The exaggerations often put out by warmists only hurt their claims of support of the masses; I wouldn’t want to be found to be in the same boat as they.
Perhaps the title of the post should change to “50,000-strong rally hear speech about the UN’s dangerous and oppressive climate agenda”
It was not a mistake for the UN in selecting Poland to host the COP and MOP of the UNFCCC and the expired Kyoto Protocol. Human social instinct calls for the host to be gracious and accommodating. A high ranking official of the host country chairs the meeting and often the highest official of the country attends one of the session. It is the duty then of the chair ( which is a high ranking official ) to resolve and try to reach a compromise to successfully attain the objective of the agenda. In return the grateful participants will name the agreement reached during the meeting after the country or the place. So we have Kyoto Protocol, Dubai agreement, etc. As the party responsible for reaching the agreement and being constantly reminded of the agreement named after one of the cities of the country it is now incumbent on the leadership of the host country not just to live up to the agreement but to lead to its successful implementation. Japan is now reluctant to go on board a new Kyoto Protocol and if the protocol was not agreed, signed and named after Kyoto, Japan it is doubtful if Japan would have ratified the protocol, lead and supported the subsequent accord, compromise, etc on the implementation of the Kyoto protocol. Like Dubai, expect Poland to be on the front line of the post Kyoto agreement. I will not be surprise if the post Kyoto Protocol will be called Montreal Protocol, Washington Protocol, Canberra Protocol as Canada, USA and Australia are now wavering on its support of the UNFCCC and would be most likely be called to host future meetings. A Washington Protocol or name any US city is big candidate for the protocol replacing the Kyoto Protocol. It would be a big Obama legacy as his successors will be forced to support and lead its implementation irregardless of the successor’s current position on climate change.
Bravely done by CFACT president David Rothbard. I say this because he’s speaking to a crowd clearly not very receptive. The chilly response doesn’t jibe with the headline and sub-head for this post. Scattered applause is covered by the overdubbed Polish national anthem.
Was looking up the relation of Poland to the fall of the Soviet (socialist) Empire and found this from this reference:
http://www.history.com/topics/fall-of-soviet-union
“The first revolution of 1989 took place in Poland, where the non-Communist trade unionists in the Solidarity movement bargained with the Communist government for freer elections in which they enjoyed great success. This, in turn, sparked peaceful revolutions across Eastern Europe. The Berlin Wall fell in November; that same month, the āvelvet revolutionā in Czechoslovakia overthrew that countryās Communist government. (In December, however, violence reigned: A firing squad executed Romaniaās Communist dictator, Nicolae Ceaucescu, and his wife.)
This atmosphere of possibility soon enveloped the Soviet Union itself. Frustration with the bad economy combined with Gorbachevās hands-off approach to Soviet satellites to inspire a series of independence movements in the republics on the USSRās fringes. One by one, the Baltic states (Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia) declared their independence from Moscow. Then, in early December, the Republic of Belarus, the Russian Federation and Ukraine broke away from the USSR and created the Commonwealth of Independent States. Weeks later, they were followed by eight of the nine remaining republics. (Georgia joined two years later.) At last, the mighty Soviet Union had fallen”
Maybe the fall of the CAGW Wall will start in Poland (already in Australia).
Hey it’s a stretch, but Poland and Czechoslovakia don’t seem to like this UN catastrophic anthropogenic global warming (CAGW).
Poland can get a little nippy sometimes and it’s understandable why they like to keep warm – especially in winter.
Warmists only truly wake up when there is a threat of no gas in winter. It almost happened in the UK last winter when their reserves were down to a few days. Have cake and eat it is my motto. Politicians in the UK feel they must act on climate change then refuse gas shipments. It’s easy.
I agree that the title is misleading. A better title might be “50,000 Poles rally for independence, hear impassioned CFACT speech against UN climate agenda”
This is great news. Of course, the most important thing is that it gets picked up by mainstream media. May there be more such rallies in Poland to expose the UN.
omnologos says:
November 12, 2013 at 4:35 pm Perhaps the title of the post should change to ā50,000-strong rally hear speech about the UNās dangerous and oppressive climate agendaā
That would be an improvement. The video clearly says, “CFACT warns against UN climate agenda. Polish National Independence Day Rally.”
CFACT does great work and have informative email updates on their work.
Anthony, please edit the headline for accuracy. That sort of misleading spin is a significant reason why the alarmists are losing credibility- lets not do the same thing to climate realism!
The story says the facts are that 50,000 Poles who gathered in downtown Warsaw on Monday to celebrate National Independence Day were addressed about Climate. That’s a very different thing from the headline.
REPLY: Sure no problem…was a quick posting -A
The crowd waved flags & there was scattered applause. Poland has unusual customs for showing approval, as anyone who ever heard Pope John Paul II make a humming sound in appreciation will know.
But even if the crowd could have been more demonstrative, how many US Independence Day celebrations include addresses by CACA skeptics? In a rally organized by Solidarity, it’s even more impressive, IMO.
eo says: I’d like to see Obama trying to pass that crap through the Republican controlled house. Not gonna happen in your Obama lifetime after he messed up their health care so badly. And only congress can ratify treaties, period!
“The Poles see right through warming propaganda. Enduring generations of socialism has left them with a deep distaste for propaganda and bureaucratic control. ” — OP
And it gets terribly cold. Hard sell to state “You must freeze by law, or women might wear swimsuits.”
omnologos says:
Do we have independent verification for this? Where the people out there for something else, to which somebody attached climate skepticism, a topic maybe of minimal interest to the mass of people in the square?
Poland has a massive coal industry, so there is great resentment against EU and UN attempts to impose job destroying costs on carbon.
I’m sure there were many other grievances being aired that day, but just as the NAZIs had Eugenics crisis, so the EU justifies its anti-democratic excesses in the name of saving the world from the carbon crisis – so it would have been a real issue, for many in that square.
As recent emigrants from occupied Europe, you have to live there to experience the rise of totalitarianism. Bit by bit, sliver by sliver, people’s freedoms are being eroded. A little press control in the UK, excessively powerful EU police powers, child “protection” procedures which are beyond public scrutiny or review – bit by bit, the vice is tightening.
It is natural that the Poles, who endured decades of Soviet oppression, are among the first to recognise the new direction as an ugly rerun of the old.
CFACT is the only website I know of that provided the draft text of the document agreement from Rio +20. And we learn from CFACT that they were not allowed access to the final draft.
You all will remember Rio+20, the international meeting attended by Hilary Clinton and Lisa Jackson, the unelected, unaccountable ex-head of the unelected, unaccountable EPA. What was she doing at an international meeting? She has no authority to agree with international leaders on domestic energy generation and use issues.
Poland and independent spirit can often be used as synonyms!
Though the CFACT speaker does not seem particularly Polish ethnically or culturally, many of his statements are prima fascia consistent with Polish news and history.
Full Disclosure: I am 50% Polish. My mother was bred, born and raised in Poland. She was taken in her teens from her farm home in Poland to a work camp near Heidelberg Germany by WWII era Germans after their invasion of Poland. My father’s American Army unit liberated the workcamp near Heidelburg . . . romance and marriage ensued.
John
When the Berlin Wall fell, America and the West thought we had won. What we forgot is the wall which kept us out, also kept them in.
Do you know what Secretary Gorbachev, the last absolute ruler of the Soviet Union, did when he lost his job? He helped set up the UN Environmental Agency.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Gorbachev
Angela Merkel’s family were senior figures in the old East European Communist family. She would like you to think she was a warrior for freedom against Soviet oppression, but the truth is her family under the Communists enjoyed privileges – foreign travel, wealth – which few of their fellows had access to.
There are an awful lot of former Soviets in positions of global authority these days, using their Soviet era skills to climb the bureaucratic ladder to senior management.
I’m sure though, they’ve all learned the lessons of the past, and now embrace freedom and democracy, right?
“Polish police used rubber bullets against masked youths who had attended an ultranationalist march that attracted an estimated 50,000 supporters.”
http://www.rferl.mobi/a/25165359.html
“Far-right Rioters Leave Trail of Destruction in Polish Capital.”
http://m.voanews.com/a/1788222.htm
But never mind – someone from CFACT addressed a rally and that can be spun into a story claiming “…one of the largest audiences to ever hear a speech denouncing UN global warming policies…” and stating unsubstantiated “…Polish feelings about the UN climate treaty…”.
Desperate stuff.
JMurphy, when people can no longer vote their politicians out of office, they turn to violence.
The real power in the European Union is the European Commission, headed by Jose Manuel Barrosso, former president of Portugal, former leading figure in the Portugese Communist Party.
Only the Commission has the power to source legislation – the parliament only has the power to approve or deny legislation presented by the Commission. The Commission has many means at its disposal to secure the votes they need, for example, the commission controls enormously lucrative special committee allowances, which they can award to senior members of parliament who vote the “right” way.
Democracy in Europe is a sham – the EU has enormous powers to override the laws of member states, but citizens of the member states have no real power to change the membership of the European commission, and the Commission gets what it wants from the parliament.
So what do citizens who are trapped in this nightmare do, when they want change?
There are two choices – protest, or leave. We chose to leave. The people you see rioting on TV, are some of the people who chose to stay.
Imagine that… The Poles don’t like the idea of being pushed around by communists.
/snark
The most vulnerable part about life on Earth is human dependence on energy provided by others.
Think about it.
What is the goal of the UN in the end with respect to CO2?
I am happy, even if those at tthe rally didn’t really fully understand what was said, they were at least exposed to the truth.
Truth is a very powerful weapon.
It is about greed, control, and history in the end.
OssQss says:
November 12, 2013 at 5:44 pm
Good one – hadn’t seen that Milton Friedman clip .
Energy underpins our entire civilization, and thus the consequences of misguided energy policy are dire. When starry-eyed activists cripple energy infrastructure by replacing cheap and dependable power sources with expensive and intermittent ones, people suffer and sometimes die.
It’s good to see that point being made in a loud and obvious way.
That’s A LOT of people in the pay of Big Oil. Poland must be swimming in money.
Jmurphy, France is next in 2015 and if one can judge from the climate over there, their government has made a deal with the EU, introducing a CCE Climate Contribution Environment, otherwise known as carbon tax while the EU won’t be too harsh on France’s deficits. Check what’s happening to ecotax cameras… This is the start and the EU bureaucracy and its enablers from the left or the right will see what social explosion means.
John Whitman says:
November 12, 2013 at 5:11 pm
Maybe you’d like to comment on Polish customs for applause & otherwise showing public approval. Do you find the crowd of your mom’s countrymen receptive or not to the sometimes awkwardly translated speech?
BTW, what a great wartime love story. Out of terrible events came great goodness.
Love the Polish people !!! Kick these eco-freak “green” whack-a-doos of the CAGW agenda driven cult religion off the planet.
*******GREAT POST, A-TH-Y********
(yours, too, OssQss — Go, Milton Friedman!)
Dedicated to All the Heroes of Truth in Science —
Carter, Salby, Soon, Watts, … and all the Science Giants of WUWT:
United — for Truth
In every age, there is a new battle in the perpetual war of good against ev1l.
Our fight is against the l1es of Envirostalinism.
Each battle with ev1l goes on for many long years,
but, in the end,
truth wins.
With the help of God, truth wins.
Some will have to suffer to make that goal happen.
Some of us already have.
Don’t give up, O weary scientists. Fight on! With courage, integrity, and a refusal to give in to doomsaying defeatism, we will win through to victory.
“France is next… .” (Tom Rude)
Yes! Go Brittany!
Protesting “Eco-tax” 2013
Forgive me, J. Philip Peterson — forgot to acknowledge your inspiration (at 4:42pm today) for my post (at 6:41pm today). Thanks! (no “hat tip,” lol, but a smile and a wave of the hand)
J. Fujita says:
My ancestry is Polish and Russian, and I can say that in the communist system, you were not allowed to show much emotion–fear and the law. I worked there and also visit my family there from time to time. I am always asked for my passport in the former Soviet block because we (Americans) smile in our passports and by law, they were not allowed to smile. I was told, when I worked there, to stand straight and look ahead and don’t look anyone in the eye. Be serious. Don’t show enthusiasm except at home in the apartments. All emotion is for family only and that is only behind closed doors. So the fact that they are not showing much emotion is perfectly in keeping with how the Soviets forced them to be for so many years.
All Polish jokes should now be rewritten to be U.N. jokes!
I’m with omnologos on the impression that this article gives. As much as I’d love there to be a popular uprising against the COP’s and their agenda, this wasn’t it.
A Washington Protocol or name any US city is big candidate for the protocol replacing the Kyoto Protocol.
How about the Detroit Protocol?
Noaaprogrammer says…..how did the ipcc member break his leg raking leaves?
He fell out of the tree. ……..Go cfact
Anthony says:
“””The UN made a big mistake choosing Poland to host its global warming treaty summit.”
……..but I cannot see a big mistake: This time for a change: The UN did a good choice! Nothing wrong with this excellent UN choice for event hosting in Poland. I hope the UN hosts more
events there, a better place then say: California …..
Day By Day: ” I am always asked for my passport in the former Soviet block because we (Americans) smile in our passports and by law, they were not allowed to smile.”
I don’t know about passports, but every State driver’s license I’ve held is the same thing. Smiles are absolutely verboten.
Jquip says:
November 12, 2013 at 7:33 pm
Not in Oregon.
BTW, has anyone audited the translator on that video?
Just sayin, I am having trouble with his dialect, hence my inquiry…..
How does an ipcc member convert 200 kph to mph?
Just add 2 to the ascii value of ‘k’ !
Meanwhile, back at the ranch…Tonight on the pbs Newshour, the tearful (understandably) plea of the Philippine rep at the COP for doing more to stop these storms was followed by a two-guest panel, Kevin Trenberth and Jeff Masters (Wx underground) for a diversity of opinion.
More of us need to be writing to the pbs newshour ombudsman about their slanted reporting. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/climate-change/july-dec13/storms2_11-12.html
As Rothbard noted, Christiana Figueres is undertaking nothing less than the “complete economic transformation of the world.” Pretty modest undertaking I’d say. So, anyway, I was modestly curious in undertaking a complete understanding of the life experiences and motivations that would compel somebody to think that it would be a cake walk to completely transform the economies of the world. Surely such an individual must be quite old and wise to countenance such a thing. But to dispel any doubt I figured I’d check her out on Wikipedia. Here goes:
‘Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of the (UNFCC), gave the opening statement before delegates from 193 countries gathered in Cancun, Mexico on November 29, 2010 by invoking the ancient jaguar goddess Ixchel, noting that Ixchel was not only goddess of the moon, but also “the goddess of reason, creativity and weaving. May she inspire you ā because today, you are gathered in Cancun to weave together the elements of a solid response to climate change, using both reason and creativity as your tools.” She went on to say to the delegates, “Excellencies, the goddess Ixchel would probably tell you that a tapestry is the result of the skilful interlacing of many threads,” said Figueres, who hails from Costa Rica and started her greetings in Spanish before switching to English. “I am convinced that 20 years from now, we will admire the policy tapestry that you have woven together and think back fondly to Cancun and the inspiration of Ixchel.”‘
Got that? The “complete economic transformation of the world” is apparently being guided by an ancient jaguar goddess called Ixchel. Or, at least inspired by Ixchel, a mighty astronomical goddess of the moon, and creativity, and reason, and … weaving? Well, you gotta have some hobbies I guess.
Now, before anybody thinks that somebody who refers to bureaucrats as “Excellencies”, and calls upon an ancient mythological jaguar she-god called Ixchel for inspiration for a “complete economic transformation of the world”, could not possibly be somebody other than a 13 year old girl who twerks, let me advise you that Christiana Figueres is getting fairly close to sixty.
But I’ll bet she does twerk.
There’s more hype here than in the 10.,000 philippine typhoon deaths. Sorry. I don’t buy it.
The global warming agenda is about as dangerous as a kitten with a purple lollipop. EVERY effort at implementing anything related to it, that could hurt the economy and job creation, is shelved faster than a dieting book with a personal trainer on the cover.
Day By Day says:
November 12, 2013 at 7:20 pm
…My ancestry is Polish and Russian, and I can say that in the communist system, you were not allowed to show much emotionāfear and the law. I worked there and also visit my family there from time to time. I am always asked for my passport in the former Soviet block because we (Americans) smile in our passports and by law, they were not allowed to smile. I was told, when I worked there, to stand straight and look ahead and donāt look anyone in the eye. Be serious. Donāt show enthusiasm except at home in the apartments. All emotion is for family only and that is only behind closed doors. So the fact that they are not showing much emotion is perfectly in keeping with how the Soviets forced them to be for so many years.
*
Thank you Day By Day, I was wondering about that, too. I hope more here understand your message. I hope the world follows and marches, too. I hope the UN is disbanded or – better still – is torn down. They have gone a long way too far and people everywhere are beginning to see that what they are offering is by no means the worst of it (as bad as it is), but the start of something far more terrifying.
How anyone can figure that a world without freedom is a better world is beyond me. And then they dare object to activists losing their freedom! The activist circles are full of fools and the unthinking. They either don’t realize that they will suffer along with everyone else, or they don’t care and hate humanity enough to want the carnage, to want everybody to suffer and die off.
They have to go. From everywhere, they have to go. They are worse than just dangerous to our lifestyle and the economy. The stupid thing is, they haven’t even helped the environment – they are destroying it!
Thanks Day By Day – it’s good to know the context before jumping to conclusions. I have had the good fortune to have befriended escapees from Communist regimes (i.e., South Vietnamese) and I find it short-sighted of any one who may admire the tenants of communism in theory but fail to recognize the horrors of it in practice. It goes beyond economical impacts but reaches deep into intellectual independence and family structure – just ask anyone who was lucky enough to escape those regimes. Of course you will have the hard lefty view that capitalism and democracy have carried out injustices throughout our short history; however, from my vantage point, the line to enter America looks a lot longer than the one trying to get out.
The people at the rally were mostly likely stoic not due to lack of enthusiasm, but due to their culture (I have a Polish friend who looks grim in nearly every posed photo she is in) — they knew that they were being filmed. They were there because they love Poland. They need coal for economic prosperity — and they are determined to keep it; and, whether they are or not — their government is.
{and I’m sure they intended it to be}
{Source (pro-Envirostalinist): http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/08/un-climate-talks-poland-coal}
*************************************
From Bloomberg yesterday, 11/11/13 (emphasis mine)
{let’s hope they are right for once!}
{Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-13/black-treasure-in-poland-clouds-un-warming-negotiations.html}
**********************
Whether the crowd was full of those brainwashed by the Envirostalinists or whether they were only characteristically stoic, the Polish Government and trade unions back the CFACT anti-UN climate agenda position. Thus, THERE IS GREAT CAUSE TO CELEBRATE WHAT IS HAPPENING IN POLAND.
GO, POLAND!
I see that the Fossil Fuel Industry sponsors the climate conference: http://www.desmogblog.com/2013/09/18/poland-partners-coal-and-oil-corporate-sponsors-cop19-climate-conference
Australian government has gone even further, according to the newspaper Australian,
their federal government has decided that it “will not sign up to any new contributions, taxes or charges at this week’s global summit on climate change, in a significant toughening of its stance as it plans to move within days to repeal the carbon tax”
However, the real blow against the UN CAGW-movement comes from the fact that the Australian government seems have called out the watermelons of the UN CAGW-crowd by having decided to reject any measures of “socialism masquerading as environmentalism”. That expression seems to have been actually used in a government document, imagine that!
Read more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/climate-tax-aid-and-fees-off-table-as-cabinet-toughens-stance/story-e6frg6xf-1226756955449#sthash.JFAcJrMV.dpuf
and
http://joannenova.com.au/2013/11/australia-says-no-to-un-wish-list-of-billions-will-not-support-socialism-masquerading-as-environmentalism/
Thanks for reminding us, Pethefin (at 10:07pm today)
HURRAH FOR AUSTRALIA!
That calls for a rousing rendition of …. #(:))
Janice Moore says:
November 12, 2013 at 9:33 pm
The people at the rally were mostly likely stoic not due to lack of enthusiasm, but due to their culture (I have a Polish friend who looks grim in nearly every posed photo she is in) ā they knew that they were being filmed. They were there because they love Poland. They need coal for economic prosperity ā and they are determined to keep it; and, whether they are or not ā their government is… (etc.)
*
Thanks, Janice for all the extra info. This is just getting better and better! š
albertalad says:
November 12, 2013 at 4:53 pm
eo says: Iād like to see Obama trying to pass that crap through the Republican controlled house. Not gonna happen in your Obama lifetime after he messed up their health care so badly. And only congress can ratify treaties, period!
I thought it is only the US senate that ratifies treaties and it is democrat controlled. With Sec of State, president and vice president who are ex-senators it is not far fetched for US to ratify to a post Kyoto Protocol.
Excellent news! May such meetings spread widely. Australia has turned to point forwards again, Poland is becoming aware of the problem, who’s next?
Meanwhile here in the UK the BBC is proudly informing us all that water and energy prices will continue to increase well above inflation FOR THE NEXT SEVENTEEN YEARS. Bring on the revolution. We can’t get rid of these arrogant, greedy parasites too soon.
Janice Moore says:
November 12, 2013 at 10:15 pm
No not that one Janice, this one:
Yes, as well as Honour, Honesty, Courage, Integrity and Loyalty.
The reverberation of THUNDER from Tony Abbott, Anthony Watts and all their global followers whenever Bullshit flows.
I am Pole living in UK and would like to inform you a bit better than official BBC relation.
First – 11 November is Polish Independence Day. It is celebrated in many ways, one of them is Independence March in Warsaw. This is the biggest gathering in this day and, in few past years, is organized by NGOs extremely opposed to government politics.
Due to specific way of polish political fight on this day we have many provocations and riots on Warsaw streets. Last year riots were mostly inspired by covert police officers. This year, due to better organizations, March was much quieter with only few provocations. But riots are very medial and this small bits are shown in TV (interesting is that cameras were placed ONLY in places where riots took place).
Another thing is that these NGOs and opposition parties which organize Independence March are also extremely against Global Warming hype and EU Climate Pact, which lay big strain on Polish electricity generation system.
A few days before Independence Day a big opposition conference took place in Warsaw and a big part of it was about threats to Poland caused by AGW hype and EU Climate Pact.
A lot of Poles are aware of problem and try to fight against all this AGW. propaganda.
Oh dear. Barely a reaction from the crowd at all, except a look that says “meh.”
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milodonharlani,
Thanks for your comment.
To assess the crowd behavior at the subject meeting where CFACT spoke I think I would need to have been there and have had some prior in country period to get in empathy with the situation.
As to Polish culture, the members of my mother’s side of the family, those proud Poles, were a very exuberant bunch; even the ones who remained in Poland after the Soviet control started. But they openly expressed to me very profound sadness and anger about the communist control of their country. I know little of their behavior in public life outside the family under the Soviets.
As to my parent’s wartime romance, they sure did live a classic romantic story. : )
John
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Tomasz Kornaszewski,
Your explanation of the situation is helpful in gaining perspective. Thank you.
John
Inspiring stuff. The Eastern Europe lived with tyranny, it’s fresh in their memories. They know it when they see it.
Actually, I just watched the video and most of the people in the crowd seemed somewhat bemused. Was this just a rally about climate change or something that had a range of speakers speaking about different topics.
How the international socialists would love, after the collapse of the previous version, to be able to annouce a new Warsaw Pact…
“Pethefin says:
November 12, 2013 at 10:07 pm”
Despite what is being said by the newly open for business Govn’t and in the media (At least 4 articles per day related to climate change/action in the Aussie MSM, it’s ridiculous!) there are those in the current cabinet that actually support some sort of tax/ETS to “fight” climate change. Malcolm Turnbull is an ex-banker and a firm supporter of an ETS. Turnbull was the LNP leader, Abbott better be careful as his leadership might be challenged, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility (Rudd, Gillard, Rudd). Greg Hunt In 1990 co-authored a university thesis entitled “A Tax to Make the Polluter Pay”. The rot is still there in the Aussie Govn’t. I will believe it when I see the carcass of the carbon tax burning on the steps of Gillards’ AU$2mil sea front luxury property!
Tomasz Kornaszewski says:
November 13, 2013 at 12:30 am
“A lot of Poles are aware of problem and try to fight against all this AGW. propaganda.”
Very glad to hear that. My fellow Germans are apathetic to delusional. As usual, “but we must DO something”, swallow every bit of propaganda fed to them by the state media EVEN after I point them to WUWT resource pages et al. They just won’t listen to me it’s funny.
This has not always been so but the current generation is brainwashed to the max.
I’m sorry but one anti- UN speech at a National Day march does not constitute :
“Not Welcome: UN climate summit in Poland greeted by 50,000 angry Poles rallying against UN”
The Polish people are not going to whoop and high-five, they are a bit more reserved.
I’m pleased they have heard what was said, they’ll no doubt take it on board – if anyone remembers what it was like to live under tyranny and thought control dictats – they will.
Representatives from Sweden!? (I doubt it)
Anybody knows their names and what the represent?
eo says:
November 12, 2013 at 10:56 pm
albertalad says:
November 12, 2013 at 4:53 pm
eo says: Iād like to see Obama trying to pass that crap through the Republican controlled house. Not gonna happen in your Obama lifetime after he messed up their health care so badly. And only congress can ratify treaties, period!
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Doesn’t matter the USA already ratified a treaty on CAGW.
UNFCCC is the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change USA ratifed this treaty on March 21 1994 per the United Nations
http://unfccc.int/essential_background/convention/status_of_ratification/items/2631.php
This is the broad framework treaty. The Kyoto Protocol is part of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change and was signed but was not ratified by the USA. (again per UN)
UNFCCC is what Obama and the EPA are using to justify their actions but they hide behind ‘The Science’ because the public would not be happy if they figured out the steep increase in fuel cost is based on a treaty and not science. Especially since the treaty has no specific set targets or methods of enforcement.
First steps to a safer future: Introducing The United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change: http://unfccc.int/essential_background/convention/items/6036.php
Background on the UNFCCC: The international response to climate change
http://unfccc.int/essential_background/items/6031.php
In 1992, countries joined an international treaty, the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, to cooperatively consider what they could do to limit average global temperature increases and the resulting climate change, and to cope with whatever impacts were, by then, inevitable.
By 1995, countries realized that emission reductions provisions in the Convention were inadequate. They launched negotiations to strengthen the global response to climate change, and, two years later, adopted the Kyoto Protocol. The Kyoto Protocol legally binds developed countries to emission reduction targets. The Protocolās first commitment period started in 2008 and ended in 2012. The second commitment period began on 1 January 2013 and will end in 2020….
Climate change is a complex problem, which, although environmental in nature, has consequences for all spheres of existence on our planet. It either impacts on– or is impacted by– global issues, including poverty, economic development, population growth, sustainable development and resource management. It is not surprising, then, that solutions come from all disciplines and fields of research and development….
Also from UNFCCC see Introduction: Overview of institutions, mechanisms and arrangements under the Convention: http://unfccc.int/focus/overview/items/7756.php
As was seen with the World Trade Organization treaty, once signed the goals of the organization created by the treaty are treated as the word from God no matter what is actually in the treaty or what the US law on treaties is. The Admin treats the treaty as a get out of Jail, free pass around Congress. The Admin uses it to justify implementing what the UN wants without any law making by Congress and the Supreme Court gives it a free pass.
Here is a recent example of that sleight of hand played by the US Admin. under Clinton and under Bush. The Bushes and Clinton wanted the WTO. Daddy Bush started the ratification process and Clinton finished it.
From the Chinese. (Why are the Russians and the Chinese now our source for information?)
“The Application of WTO Law in China (Jiangyu Wang)
http://www.eastlaw.net/research/wto/wto2b.htm
…First of all, according to relevant U.S. statues, trade treaties are not self-executing. Secondly, they could even not apply the later-in-time rule.
In the first place, status of trade agreements in U.S. law is governed by the Trade Agreements Act of 1979 (hereinafter the 1979 Act). In the Act, Congress made clear that any provision of the Tokyo Round agreements negotiated under the GATT framework would not prevail over a U.S. statute, regardless of when the statue was enacted. Clearly, this was not consistent with the later-in-time-prevail rule. In addition, the same Act precluded any private right of action or remedy based on the agreements, unless otherwise provided by U.S. law…
…the U.S. Congress adopted the Uruguay Round Agreement Act of 1994 (URAA) to define the limits of legal effects of the GATT/WTO agreements in U.S. legal order. A brief of the URAA is that it prevents terms of the GATT/WTO that conflict with existing federal law from having domestic effects, and allows for continued ability of the United States to take unilateral actions pose for the WTO. This aim can be well evidenced by the legislative history of the URAA. During the debate on approving the WTO Agreement, the prevailing view was that the multinational pact was not in conflict with U.S. sovereignty generally for two reasons: first, Congress is ultimately responsible for changing the laws of the United States; and second, the U.S. is entitled to withdraw from the WTO if it feels that the DSB abused its power. These arguments were vehemently endorsed by Clinton Administration officials who were eager to get the agreement passed Congress. Mickey Kantor, U.S. Trade Representatives, stated emphatically that “[n]o ruling by any dispute panel ā¦ can force us to change any federal, state or local law or regulation. Not the city council of Los Angeles, nor the Senate of the United States can be bound by these dispute settlement rulings.” His assistant, Deputy USTR Rufus Yerxa reiterated that “a WTO dispute settlement panel recommendation does not automatically change U.S. law. It has not self-executing effect ā¦. Only Congress can change that law to implement a panel recommendation.”
But the language of the URAA is even clearer. The features of the URAA are described as follows:
United States Law to Prevail in Conflict The URAA puts U.S. sovereignty and U.S. law under perfect protection….
Subsequent international trade treaties the U.S. concluded continued the opposition to trade treaty priority.
That seems pretty darn clear but it seems the FDA and USDA never got the Memo.
From FDA website (2008? It has since been revised a few times, final updated: http://www.fda.gov/InternationalPrograms/ )
Original: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/int-laws.html
“The harmonization of laws, regulations and standards between and among trading partners requires intense, complex, time-consuming negotiations by CFSAN officials. Harmonization must simultaneously facilitate international trade and promote mutual understanding, while protecting national interests and establish a basis to resolve food issues on sound scientific evidence in an objective atmosphere. Failure to reach a consistent, harmonized set of laws, regulations and standards within the freetrade agreements and the World Trade Organization Agreements can result in considerable economic repercussions.”
We are seeing the same sort of sleight of hand with CAGW. The treaty the USA signed in 1994 (same time period as NAFTA and WTO) is being treated by the government as defacto US Law.
This is why we have Obama’s War on Coal with the EPA and the Supreme Court backing him up. We signed a treaty and no one wants to admit that they are treating that treaty as being above the US Constitution so they use ‘The Science’ as a red herring to avoid the confrontation.
Above post on WTO is referring to a post on UNFCCC. That is the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change that was ratified by the USA on March 21 1994 per the United Nations
http://unfccc.int/essential_background/convention/status_of_ratification/items/2631.php
(First post is still in moderation)
I think it’s been stated but the headline of this article is misleading. Please don’t become anything like the W**ther Ch*nnel in this regard.
As Zeke and others have pointed out, the article is very clear about CFACT’s role in the rally. We were invited to speak on their Polish Independence Day (which says a lot, since we are foreigners!) about climate change and the UN treaty threat because it is an issue that matters to them.
One thing I want to address is the crowd’s response, which was actually quite warm despite how it looks in the video (temps were in the low 40s Fahrenheit that day). There was applause, as much as or more as was received by the other speakers. We cut to the Polish national anthem for technical reasons: David was lapel-mic’ed & started talking pretty soon after he finished, and we didn’t have a secondary mic collecting background, unfortunately. But it’s definitely there.
In any case, a big thank you to Anthony for sharing this. Thank you to the WUWT community for the compliments as well as the skepticism! We would be very remiss in criticizing the UN for not accepting healthy skepticism if we were not receptive of it ourselves.
50,000 angry Poles ralllying against the UN? Hmmm, I don’t see any angry Poles, only bemused/slightly indifferent people standing around. It looks like a bunch of people out for an Independence Day event, which probably had speakers on a number of different topics. Some topics grabbed their interest, others not so much.
And as to the above comments that the Poles were acting very reserved due to their experiences during the Communist era, that sure didn’t stop them from attacking the Russian embassy in Warsaw yesterday: http://blogs.wsj.com/emergingeurope/2013/11/12/russia-demands-apology-after-polish-riot/ So perhaps they just weren’t as interested in the CFACT talk as the above summary implies.
The angry Poles have also been hosting some seriously serious military exercises of late. Say aren’t they one of the countries that is considered “a screw driver turn away” from being nuclear armed?
@ A. D. Everard — You are welcome. My pleasure. Thanks, so much, for telling me. Great to see that someone read and comprehended the meaning of my posts — it is obvious from several of the comments above that MANY people either did not read mine nor several others’ posts (hm… perhaps, they didn’t understand what we wrote?? I doubt it).
They “murder {the joy possible at this news} to dissect.”
Rejoice, Eeyores! No? I wonder what WILL you rejoice at?
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Tomasz Kornaszewski says:
November 13, 2013 at 12:30 am
Thank you for sharing. Very helpful.
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Thanks for sharing about your parents, John Whitman. What a wonderful story. Thanks for the reminder that true and enduring love does happen.
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Thanks, Gail Combs for generously sharing all your research with us. While it does not change your underlying message, re: the 1994 treaty I would like to clarify that while, yes, Bill Clinton signed it, the U. S. Senate (yes, e0, only they, not Congress as a whole ratify treaties) has never ratified that document. Clinton got the political capital, but it is a worthless (except as a ruse which, of course, Dopebama and the Gang of Thugs would readily try to use) piece of paper at the moment. The U. S. Supreme Court would, if the matter were before them, hold that any actions taken under the “authority” of that treaty were ultra vires and, thus, void.
Also, even though the Senate is currently infested with socialists (a.k.a. “Democrats”) and Republicans-in-name-only, there are enough that would vote “Nay” that it is unlikely the Envirostalinists can get it ratified any time soon.
Thus, yes, practically, we have an administration that is ignoring constitutional law, but, ultimately, they still CAN be challenged and stopped.
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Don’t give up, dear, discouraged, Eeyores above:
TRUTH IS WINNING!
omnologos= a CAGW troll. An idiot with 2 t’s!:]
Despite the sentiment, the russians and evironmentalist have been pretty successful in hamstringing Polands frac’ing development.
Gail Coombs:
Yes the US has ratified the UNFCCC that is why is always part of the COP. The Protocol is the implementation mechanism of the convention. The UNFCCC is just a broad framework of principles and concept. Without the protocol, the convention is an abstract document. Some countries do ratify the convention so they could always look after their interest during the COP and never ratify the protocol. Those countries like the US do keep a strong program aligned with the convention so that they could be seen as having good intention even if they have not ratified the protocol. US is doing this on UNFCCC. by the way US have signed the Kyoto Protocol but has not ratified it.
the article wrong – 50k poles were NOT protesting GWCC. I found a very informative on the context of this rally. It was coincident with a nationalist rally. Here it is in total since I do nt know how to link to it
“I am polish by birth. While I was not there (I live in the US), I speak the language fluently and thus can read polish newspapers, left wing and right wing, as they are now available online. I do visit as well.
These people are nationalists, demonstrating yearly on the anniversary of re-creation of independent polish state in 1918, following ~150 years of partition. The independence day is celebrated yearly on November 11. They tend to believe that Poland was once again “sold out” to foreign interests and is losing it’s independence. There is a religious angle to the movement, and unfortunately a fair dose of anti-Semitism as well. If you want to look for their analogue in the US, Alex Jones would come the closest (minus anti-Semitism). The movement is opportunistically embraced by right wing politicians who lost power few years ago to pro-EU parties. Their demonstrations have been progressively turning more disruptive and violent over the last few years.
I think it is fair to say that extreme nationalists represent a fairly small minority in Poland. Having said this, many people in Poland do not care for global warming. You can see it in mostly hostile comments to articles about the UN summit, even in left wing newspapers. Poland is naturally opposed to these policies because of abundant coal deposits which still provide most of energy generation. The opposition is shared by right wing and left wing parties. All of this being the case, 50,000 were not demonstrating against UN global warming summit in Warsaw. The summit and demonstrations were coincidental (whomever scheduled the UN summit on this date in Warsaw is a complete moron).”
idic5 is mostly right about it but there is one mistake in his thinking. Independence March (Marsz NiepodlegÅoÅci) gathered from normal poeple to some extremist individuals (and yes they love to fight – they are mostly football hooligans). Main reason that so many poeple joined the March was that they are tired of liberal propaganda (most of media in Poland is leftist – liberal), political correctness – “Toleration Dictatorship” as some call it, mostly about tolerating Islam invasion in Europe and “homo-propaganda” as we call it. Independence March in Poland is under heavy fire from media and politics (those left – central winged of course) they call us nazis, fascists, bandits ect but as i said, most of us are just normal people with strong patriotic feeling.
True face of this demonstration.
Most of us are aware about this whole climate scam but it’s not our primary concern now.
Sorry for errors in my bad english.
David G says:
November 13, 2013 at 12:09 pm
omnologos= a CAGW troll. An idiot with 2 tās!:]
Who cares? What he brought up happened to have merit and Anthony edited the title, and good for him. It’s relatively trivial but it’s good to strive for accuracy, no matter the messenger. (And for the record, just because one disagrees does not automatically make one an idiot.)
From Janice Moore & Gail Combs’ posts:
“…1994 treaty I would like to clarify that while, yes, Bill Clinton signed it, the U. S. Senate (yes, e0, only they, not Congress as a whole ratify treaties) has never ratified that document…”
I think this is all about agenda 21 which nobody has mentioned. I think Rosa Koire nails it here. (it’s a long video, but entertaining and informative) It’s n funny too…I think the best Rosa video I’ve seen:
As usual, I’m a little late …
I’m from the northern Polish (near Szczecin). So I am not (in any way) professionally connected with the coal industry (southern Polish).
Polish post-communist liberal-leftist journalists (as well as West European) demonstration presented solely through the prism of the Russian embassy and burn the rainbow, and there is a small margin for the whole …
1989 – West European journalists see here (in most cases) as those who began the destruction of communism: Gorbachev, Czechs, East Germans, Hungarians … and usually nothing more.
Well, Western Europe (France, England) will not remember what she did (or rather did not do) in 1939 and 1945 …
And in Poland is 38 millions citizens …
P.S. Always makes me laugh, when the BBC often forget about the big participation of Polish pilots in the Battle of Britain and the Polish soldiers in the defense of Tobruk …
I am a members of one of governing party (PSL) and Solidarity. Our views on the “fight” against global warming, however, is almost identical (especially in the economy) as the nationalist movement: never not agree to the climate package, which is currently proposed by the EU (always apply the veto). This will destroy the competitiveness of our economy.
For example, never agree to it would just destroyed the economy – as in Germany. We are not a rich country. For our government was impressed (from this year) this article from Der Spiegel (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-addresses-problems-with-renewable-energy-subsidy-system-a-852549.html). Especially these parts:
āAt issue is the German Renewable Energy Act, which requires power companies to buy wind and solar energy from producers at fixed prices, which are much higher than electricity produced by traditional methods such as coal- and natural gas-fired power plants. At the same time, power-hungry industries receive generous subsidies – the country’s largest industrial consumers use some 18 percent of the electricity produced but pay only 0.3 percent of the extra costs generated by the mandated feed-in tariffs. German consumers have to COUGH UP the difference.ā
ā … – particularly the offshore windparks being built in the Baltic Sea and the North Sea off the country’s north coast. Many of those projects are at A STANDSTILL, WITH NO WAY TO DELIVER THE POWER …ā ā…but again it will be German consumers who will ultimately suffer.ā
Therefore, in Poland – currently – significantly reduced subsidies for wind farms …
A speech of the American guest just before the huge demonstration in Warsaw: