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2015.08.09 Ragefire Leadership Summit

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  2. [Sun Aug 09 08:36:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thanks for showing up for the meeting all. '
  3. [Sun Aug 09 08:36:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please state your name and guild represented.'
  4. [Sun Aug 09 08:36:34 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Birkoff <Darkwind>'
  5. [Sun Aug 09 08:36:37 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sagnid, The Last Guardian.'
  6. [Sun Aug 09 08:36:40 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Apok'
  7. [Sun Aug 09 08:36:42 2015] Syrgen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Syrgen <Darkwind>'
  8. [Sun Aug 09 08:36:43 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ryanilin <Tempus>'
  9. [Sun Aug 09 08:36:44 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Matthias Leader of False prophecy'
  10. [Sun Aug 09 08:36:50 2015] Trackanon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Trackanon <Ceaseless>'
  11. [Sun Aug 09 08:36:56 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'First - Twisted Legacy'
  12. [Sun Aug 09 08:37:00 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Scipio - Ceaseless'
  13. [Sun Aug 09 08:37:06 2015] Mhadlovins tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Mhadlovins < Ceaseless > '
  14. [Sun Aug 09 08:37:07 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Janglespur <Reign of Eternity>'
  15. [Sun Aug 09 08:37:10 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Mylene - Evening Reign'
  16. [Sun Aug 09 08:37:14 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Skelly Apokalypsis'
  17. [Sun Aug 09 08:37:15 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Khore <Ceasless>'
  18. [Sun Aug 09 08:37:16 2015] Barlow tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Barlow - Ceaseless'
  19. [Sun Aug 09 08:37:17 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Eaza - Remnants of Prexus'
  20. [Sun Aug 09 08:37:22 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Arch <Afterlife>'
  21. [Sun Aug 09 08:37:23 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Manvaril <False Prophecy>'
  22. [Sun Aug 09 08:37:34 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Jain <Twisted Legacy>'
  23. [Sun Aug 09 08:38:06 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I believe we have Rosengard present as well.'
  24. [Sun Aug 09 08:38:23 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Bonlgon <Rosengard>'
  25. [Sun Aug 09 08:38:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Confirm? Bonlgon?'
  26. [Sun Aug 09 08:38:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thank you.'
  27. [Sun Aug 09 08:38:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok - to start out... I have posted the agenda on ragefireforums.com'
  28. [Sun Aug 09 08:38:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if anybody has not read it by now, please do so.'
  29. [Sun Aug 09 08:39:01 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(23) members:
  30. [Sun Aug 09 08:39:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or open it up and follow along.'
  31. [Sun Aug 09 08:39:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The initial goals are pretty simple: Formation of the Ragefire Rotation Council, Rotation modifications, and Establishing next steps'
  32. [Sun Aug 09 08:39:37 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'where at?'
  33. [Sun Aug 09 08:39:47 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'on forums'
  34. [Sun Aug 09 08:39:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sagnid of TLG, are you present?'
  35. [Sun Aug 09 08:40:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'On the Public Leadership platform'
  36. [Sun Aug 09 08:40:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I believe TLG is present, he must have stepped away. Anyways moving on..'
  37. [Sun Aug 09 08:41:13 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you look over the first part of the agenda, it covers a formation of a rotation council'
  38. [Sun Aug 09 08:41:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this is a unit (similar to many other business offices), that will serve as a means of organizing meetings, and correspondence for the purpose of getting things done here.'
  39. [Sun Aug 09 08:41:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'There are currently 4 offices within this council'
  40. [Sun Aug 09 08:42:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Chairman, Secretary, Member, and Guest'
  41. [Sun Aug 09 08:42:27 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes TLG is here, sorry tabing around'
  42. [Sun Aug 09 08:42:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'their functions are noted within the agenda, but for completeness ake, I'll hash them out here:'
  43. [Sun Aug 09 08:42:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thank you.'
  44. [Sun Aug 09 08:42:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The chairman is a position that organizes the structure of the meetings'
  45. [Sun Aug 09 08:43:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It is a non-voting entity (only used for tie-breaking votes)'
  46. [Sun Aug 09 08:43:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It is also to be used for corresponding with DBG when needed.'
  47. [Sun Aug 09 08:43:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The secretary is a position used for compiling information and staying organized'
  48. [Sun Aug 09 08:44:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Typical of most councils'
  49. [Sun Aug 09 08:44:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The Members are the voting population of the council'
  50. [Sun Aug 09 08:44:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'these are the guild leaders that make the decisions and vote'
  51. [Sun Aug 09 08:44:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'A guest is somebody participating in the meeting, but does not have voting rights. (As given by the Membership)'
  52. [Sun Aug 09 08:45:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I will be presiding as the Chairman (as long as the Membership permits) and Jain will be presiding as the secretary (as long as membership permits).'
  53. [Sun Aug 09 08:46:06 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'There are checks in balances in place for these positions. 2/3 majority vote can remove either position from office. '
  54. [Sun Aug 09 08:46:06 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, '[2]Murphys cast now!![2] '
  55. [Sun Aug 09 08:46:13 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'err sorry'
  56. [Sun Aug 09 08:46:28 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Im sorry we dont have the trust established yet for posistions such as these. Thats what we trid to communicate at the last meeting. We cant even talk to eachother politely half the time.'
  57. [Sun Aug 09 08:46:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anybody have any questions or comments on the core'
  58. [Sun Aug 09 08:46:41 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(24) members:
  59. [Sun Aug 09 08:46:47 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it is a nice idea, if we actually did communicate and have trust etc. but at this time we dont.'
  60. [Sun Aug 09 08:46:54 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Melveny: The positions hold no power. They have no votes.'
  61. [Sun Aug 09 08:47:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'They are purely administrative roles.'
  62. [Sun Aug 09 08:47:03 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and why are these positions automatically filled before voting anything?'
  63. [Sun Aug 09 08:47:19 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'except on tie breakers'
  64. [Sun Aug 09 08:47:28 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that is not completely administrative'
  65. [Sun Aug 09 08:47:41 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there is no need for tie breakers as its stated by gms all guilds must agree.'
  66. [Sun Aug 09 08:47:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Correct. If you would like, we can vote to exclude that from the options. Once the voting membership has been established.'
  67. [Sun Aug 09 08:47:55 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thi is true melveny'
  68. [Sun Aug 09 08:48:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'There just has to be some form of tie-breaks in place.'
  69. [Sun Aug 09 08:48:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We have noted Apok's stance on that. Does anybody else have any input?'
  70. [Sun Aug 09 08:48:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Moving on... Membership voting.'
  71. [Sun Aug 09 08:49:04 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Can we decide whom the voting members are ? (Apologies if this is the next bullet)'
  72. [Sun Aug 09 08:49:18 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yep, it is the first thing on the agenda.'
  73. [Sun Aug 09 08:49:25 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'As it is to me atm there is no chairman or secretary or anything atm....nothing had been decided so please dont act like this is set in stone'
  74. [Sun Aug 09 08:50:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The only fair method I could come up with, is a public guild vote to determine who can participate in the vote that decides who can vote to become a member.'
  75. [Sun Aug 09 08:50:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I know this is confusing, but it will make sense as we move along.'
  76. [Sun Aug 09 08:51:00 2015] Jain -> sunruy: rotationcouncil:classic is the chat channel
  77. [Sun Aug 09 08:51:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'That said, the voting format will take place as such:'
  78. [Sun Aug 09 08:51:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The vote will be presented, with 4 options. In the order listed, s imply press 1-4 for what you'd like to vote on. '
  79. [Sun Aug 09 08:51:44 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Before we commence voting, are we going to be heard as to why we feel the way we do? Or simply going with your options?'
  80. [Sun Aug 09 08:52:12 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, there will be discussion periods before and after each vote'
  81. [Sun Aug 09 08:52:17 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'is there a manner to add a vote option?'
  82. [Sun Aug 09 08:52:27 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thank you for clarifying'
  83. [Sun Aug 09 08:52:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We have to establish who can vote before we can decide who can amend things.'
  84. [Sun Aug 09 08:52:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so this first one is pretty straight forward'
  85. [Sun Aug 09 08:53:22 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its not actually'
  86. [Sun Aug 09 08:53:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So to answer your question First... these are more or less guidelines. Any Council Member can add an item to vote on at any time.'
  87. [Sun Aug 09 08:53:38 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can you define unique member'
  88. [Sun Aug 09 08:53:42 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(26) members:
  89. [Sun Aug 09 08:53:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Unique member? '
  90. [Sun Aug 09 08:54:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Oh. '
  91. [Sun Aug 09 08:54:13 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, are we talking an account or a human being?'
  92. [Sun Aug 09 08:54:41 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I Read it as human being but i would like clarification as well'
  93. [Sun Aug 09 08:54:51 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I read unique member as a guild entity, w/one vote. '
  94. [Sun Aug 09 08:55:05 2015] Trackanon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'As did I, Arch'
  95. [Sun Aug 09 08:55:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Things are hairy here because we have not yet defined who is the voting populus, but when it is defined, a council member will be a representative of a guild. The leader, or whomever the leader chooses to represent them.'
  96. [Sun Aug 09 08:55:18 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'As already stated many times, we feel small changes are what is needed so we can start trust, communcaton, and teamwork. Im not open to an overhall and gms said all must agree so voting isnt really on the table.'
  97. [Sun Aug 09 08:55:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry. Thank you for clarifying. Each guild only gets one vote.'
  98. [Sun Aug 09 08:55:44 2015] Sunruy tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Mrs Sunruy of Dragoon Order of Veeshan is present'
  99. [Sun Aug 09 08:55:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thank you, Melveny of Apok, noted.'
  100. [Sun Aug 09 08:56:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Welcome Sunruy'
  101. [Sun Aug 09 08:56:09 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'refrain from toxic tells please.'
  102. [Sun Aug 09 08:56:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'To summarize: Each guild gets one vote. Please decide internally who is going to be voting for your guild.'
  103. [Sun Aug 09 08:57:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This first vote is to determine who decides who can vote on who becomes a member.'
  104. [Sun Aug 09 08:57:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anybody have any questions?'
  105. [Sun Aug 09 08:57:46 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, what is a unique member'
  106. [Sun Aug 09 08:58:13 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i assume that means non boxed'
  107. [Sun Aug 09 08:58:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'a Member is a guild leader or representative qualified to vote on these topics.'
  108. [Sun Aug 09 08:58:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i'm not sure where you're getting unique from?'
  109. [Sun Aug 09 08:58:36 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the unique member First is referring to, is where you list 36 unique members in a guild to join the council'
  110. [Sun Aug 09 08:58:38 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'any guilds with 36 unique members etc'
  111. [Sun Aug 09 08:58:39 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'options 3 and 4, 36 unique members'
  112. [Sun Aug 09 08:58:41 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'your options state, "any guild with 36 unique members"'
  113. [Sun Aug 09 08:58:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ah! sorry'
  114. [Sun Aug 09 08:59:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, good point.'
  115. [Sun Aug 09 08:59:42 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why is Barlow of Ceaseless sending me toxic tells?'
  116. [Sun Aug 09 08:59:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, the unique member clause was put in the last two options as a means of allowing the voting population to determine if box guilds are allowed to enter.'
  117. [Sun Aug 09 09:00:01 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ask him yourself Skelly'
  118. [Sun Aug 09 09:00:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We are building this rotation from the ground up, so this needs to be asked.'
  119. [Sun Aug 09 09:00:15 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'maybe he wants to get down'
  120. [Sun Aug 09 09:00:25 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I cant pay attention to the meeting because of this toxicity'
  121. [Sun Aug 09 09:00:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this is not to discriminate anybody, it is a legite question that needs to be voted on.'
  122. [Sun Aug 09 09:00:39 2015] Barlow tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Toxic tells are not coming from me, Skelly. '
  123. [Sun Aug 09 09:00:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Use the ignore function if you are receiving distracting tells please'
  124. [Sun Aug 09 09:00:54 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thalanos the rotation is already built'
  125. [Sun Aug 09 09:01:09 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Or use tell windows and minimize that tell window'
  126. [Sun Aug 09 09:01:41 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would like to point out that a lot more than just box guilds are going to fall into options 3 and 4. '
  127. [Sun Aug 09 09:02:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So back to your question, first. It is a way for the Council to protect itself. There are options in place that will allow a boxed guild to exist in the rotation, but not vote. Or, if the council decides, it can vote as well. But the options are there.'
  128. [Sun Aug 09 09:02:13 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, 'True Rya, Afterlife falls into that, but I do agree that it is a valid topic.'
  129. [Sun Aug 09 09:02:29 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think the guidelines that Jain put on the leadership forum are a better place to start. Guilds with a web presence, and a demonstrated intent to raid as well as the systems being set up to allow for that, have to be taken into account'
  130. [Sun Aug 09 09:02:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please clarify, Ryan. Does your guild not have 36 unique raiders?'
  131. [Sun Aug 09 09:03:32 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We definitely do, but the way you framed it before, it was as if that was a way to determine if box or alt guilds would be allowed entry.'
  132. [Sun Aug 09 09:04:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If a guild does not have 36 unique members, and is not a boxed guild, it cannot kill any of the mobs currently on the rotation, correct?'
  133. [Sun Aug 09 09:04:38 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Not saying that's the only thing it would do, but I am simply stating that all raiding guilds need to have a voice, even if not raiding on the current rotation. We've all been doing this long enough to know what does and doesn't constitute a guild that is going to raid.'
  134. [Sun Aug 09 09:04:48 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed'
  135. [Sun Aug 09 09:05:06 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I also agree with you Ryan, that is why we are allowing every guild a chance to vote on who becomes a member.'
  136. [Sun Aug 09 09:05:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Is anybody unclear yet?'
  137. [Sun Aug 09 09:05:37 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think Ryans concern is the alt and box guilds'
  138. [Sun Aug 09 09:05:53 2015] Sunruy tells RotationCouncil:4, 'still trying to catch up but sounds clear to me'
  139. [Sun Aug 09 09:05:59 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'completely understood. I just wanted to state our case prior to the vote, so people can see there are factors to take into account prior to simply deciding that only rot guilds can vote, etc.'
  140. [Sun Aug 09 09:06:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Okay, thank you for the input.'
  141. [Sun Aug 09 09:06:51 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm unclear, before we vote, on how we're going to handle holdouts votes or non-unanimous results...or is this too early to ask?'
  142. [Sun Aug 09 09:07:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Every guild gets one vote. They can choose not to vote.'
  143. [Sun Aug 09 09:07:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If there is a tie break, currently the chairman will cast the deciding vote. Once the voting populus is formed, the Membership can determine who casts the deciding vote.'
  144. [Sun Aug 09 09:08:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Any other questions?'
  145. [Sun Aug 09 09:08:18 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'My other concern is how the winner will be decided, and will it be strictly based on the votes each option gets'
  146. [Sun Aug 09 09:08:22 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Didn't GMs say that everyone needs to agree?'
  147. [Sun Aug 09 09:08:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Again, this is not to determine the membership. This vote is to decide who can vote, basically'
  148. [Sun Aug 09 09:08:39 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'im confused as to where the tie-breaking is taking place.'
  149. [Sun Aug 09 09:08:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I have not seen that, Skelly.'
  150. [Sun Aug 09 09:08:59 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'feels as if we are being forced to bote. and GM's have said both Roshen and Holly that all guilds must agree already two times over.'
  151. [Sun Aug 09 09:09:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, it will be majority votes'
  152. [Sun Aug 09 09:09:04 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'vote*'
  153. [Sun Aug 09 09:09:14 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Skelly, Twisted Legacy did not agree to the original rotation and the GM's upheld that rotation. It seems very clear that 100&PCT; agreement is not required.'
  154. [Sun Aug 09 09:09:24 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, 'DB ultimately asked us to police ourselves, first and foremost.'
  155. [Sun Aug 09 09:09:37 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I don't mean to nitpick, but the poll os flawed inherently then. Similar to the Kunark unlock poll that DBG put out'
  156. [Sun Aug 09 09:09:39 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Melveny, we are looking to move forward. You will get a chance to vote on what rotation you'd like after the voting populus is determined'
  157. [Sun Aug 09 09:09:40 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you should go read the forum and both Holly and Roshens post before we continue where it states all guilds must agree.'
  158. [Sun Aug 09 09:09:47 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I have not seen evidence of DBG stating it had to be a 100&PCT; agreement - if there had to be . we wouldnt have a rotation at all'
  159. [Sun Aug 09 09:09:54 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'That was their decision. They can make decision off a whim if they want. '
  160. [Sun Aug 09 09:10:03 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This is their game they make the rules'
  161. [Sun Aug 09 09:10:03 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It was also mentioned that Holly and Roshan will take into consideration the outcome of this meeting on Monday. You should vote the way your guild wishes, and let DGB figure out the rest'
  162. [Sun Aug 09 09:10:21 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ryan, I understand what you're saying. Ideally I would do 20 yes/no polls then present options one at a time. But if you look down the agenda we're already voting on 20 things. It's just not feasible.'
  163. [Sun Aug 09 09:10:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This was the most efficient and fair way to tackle voting.'
  164. [Sun Aug 09 09:11:00 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I am simply talking about who gets a vote. I honestly believe this is the most important issue we face, as it will determine the way things go for years to come'
  165. [Sun Aug 09 09:11:12 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Having a rotation was not a player based decision. This was a GM based desicion with GM enforced rules, and 100&PCT; agreement is one of those rules they have set in place'
  166. [Sun Aug 09 09:11:21 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'im concerned and would like to move to amend the vote options, unique member is problematic, you cannot verify it, and at what point is it a bad rule - 35 "unique" members plus 5 boxes (who can kill rotation mobs), 20 with 20 boxes? i think it's impossible to verify, leads to judgemental exclusions, and that the language should be replaced in the first vote and all future line items with that language- do not think dbg will want anything other than an obviousness or gatekeeper-esque test'
  167. [Sun Aug 09 09:11:55 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I"M saying that if option 1 gets 5 votes, option 3 gets 4 votes, and option 4 gets 3 votes, the guilds who would fall under those 2 options still won't have a vote'
  168. [Sun Aug 09 09:12:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Fair argument. The options were inserted simply as a means of protecting the council itself. Currently there is nothing preventing guilds x,y.z from spawning and creating votes.'
  169. [Sun Aug 09 09:12:26 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Once again, Skelly, vote the way your guild wishes, if you feel you're correct, then why resist?'
  170. [Sun Aug 09 09:12:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'As a boxed guild.'
  171. [Sun Aug 09 09:13:08 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if no vote gets majority (of all cast votes), lowest option should be elimited until majority is achived, at the very least.'
  172. [Sun Aug 09 09:13:09 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Again, you are forcing a vote when GMS already said all guilds must agree twice over.'
  173. [Sun Aug 09 09:13:11 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I am not resisting. I am following GM enforced rulings.'
  174. [Sun Aug 09 09:13:30 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What if instead of a Number limit the guilds simply had to have an online presence, a website perhaps'
  175. [Sun Aug 09 09:14:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'First: you seem to have a strong stance on this. Please present what you'd like the voting option to be changed to.'
  176. [Sun Aug 09 09:14:04 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think Skelly,Melveny. That by refusing to take part in this meeting, you will wake up only to discover your voice was not heard.'
  177. [Sun Aug 09 09:14:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The goal is not to eliminate anybody from voting, it is only to protect the voting membership.'
  178. [Sun Aug 09 09:15:09 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thalanos correct, i think amended language could be - X unique raid-capable members or who can pass a certain kill threshold - can also do roster checks for obviousness'
  179. [Sun Aug 09 09:15:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Within the current provisions, it is possible for a guild to be on the rotation and not be a voting member.'
  180. [Sun Aug 09 09:16:05 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'existing rotation no, under your proposed votes, yes'
  181. [Sun Aug 09 09:16:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if the 36 unique members passed, (sagnid) for example could still be allowed to participate in the rotation, just not get a vote'
  182. [Sun Aug 09 09:16:51 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'To Apok's point, it's also not possible to know who is in agreement or disagreement until a vote is called anyway. When a majority vote is known, those who voted otherwise can be asked if they will agree for the sake of the community.'
  183. [Sun Aug 09 09:17:05 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the problem is the vote options under every quest with this language only present 2 options - allow everyone, or exclude bot guilds'
  184. [Sun Aug 09 09:17:18 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'every question*'
  185. [Sun Aug 09 09:17:21 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but he is claiming as chairman a tie breaker'
  186. [Sun Aug 09 09:17:30 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and with all guilds needing to be in agreement this does not fit'
  187. [Sun Aug 09 09:17:55 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and i can table my motion until we're done with the existing discussion with melveny/skelly'
  188. [Sun Aug 09 09:17:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Melveny, please propose a better way to handle tie breaks.'
  189. [Sun Aug 09 09:18:06 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'And I want to know where the rules came from that he is chairman...'
  190. [Sun Aug 09 09:18:16 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'all guilds must agree thats the point you're missing there are no tie breaks.'
  191. [Sun Aug 09 09:18:32 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'he isn't the chairmain, if you read the agenda it says 'proposed''
  192. [Sun Aug 09 09:18:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Because I am a neutral party, and we have already proven that non-neutral meetings are not productive.'
  193. [Sun Aug 09 09:19:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The voting populus can replace those offices at any time.'
  194. [Sun Aug 09 09:19:05 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Honestly I appreciate him stepping up and helping out, dont get me wrong.'
  195. [Sun Aug 09 09:19:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Fact remains, somebody has to organize this.'
  196. [Sun Aug 09 09:19:16 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'once we've established a voting body, feel free to make a motion to remove him, it's pretty logical'
  197. [Sun Aug 09 09:19:22 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'But something to this extent would have to be thought out a little better'
  198. [Sun Aug 09 09:19:40 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I also have some neutral parties that would be willing to help us out with decision making'
  199. [Sun Aug 09 09:19:57 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I understnad the need to protect the rotation guilds from a potential onslaught of smaller guilds that can simply form together, and force changes that are detrimental as a whole. I am simply saying that even if a guild isn't raiding at the top level of each expansion, they are still a valuable and necessary part of the server and even raiding scene. I want to ensure that voice is heard without being locked out fdrom being able to contribute to the way the rotaion will look in the future i.e. voting'
  200. [Sun Aug 09 09:20:21 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If there will be no tie-breakers, it should be no challenege to agree on a method for deciding a tie breaker vote'
  201. [Sun Aug 09 09:20:35 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this is true Jain'
  202. [Sun Aug 09 09:20:49 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thank you for clearing that up'
  203. [Sun Aug 09 09:20:56 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I am not going to say much on this subject, as its clear. Everyone dislikes how I play this game. But to me its simple. If you can kill the mobs, you get to vote.'
  204. [Sun Aug 09 09:21:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Agree as well, Jain.'
  205. [Sun Aug 09 09:21:10 2015] Sunruy tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i agree with Ryan '
  206. [Sun Aug 09 09:21:15 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Then let us agree quickly on the tiebreaker method and move forward, since as you pointed out it is a non-issue'
  207. [Sun Aug 09 09:21:22 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You need temporary framework to get framework started, look at a construction site, they put up forms before pouring concrete, that is what we are doing here, we are putting up forms and part of that form is Thalanos trying to prep the concrete to be poured, quit stalling and throwing road blocks up please, I don't want to sit here all day'
  208. [Sun Aug 09 09:21:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sagnid, these are proposed options.'
  209. [Sun Aug 09 09:21:55 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I appreciate what Thalanos has done here and is doing.'
  210. [Sun Aug 09 09:22:09 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Wait Jain, im sorry but you said there will be no tie-breakers...'
  211. [Sun Aug 09 09:22:25 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if said if'
  212. [Sun Aug 09 09:22:35 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'he said if*'
  213. [Sun Aug 09 09:22:37 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Because we need to all agree on changes to current system'
  214. [Sun Aug 09 09:22:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Skelly: since Apok is against the tie-break rule that I have proposed, we will strike it and come up with another method. Acceptable?'
  215. [Sun Aug 09 09:22:51 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'therefore there is no tie to break'
  216. [Sun Aug 09 09:23:19 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'another method for what?'
  217. [Sun Aug 09 09:23:26 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seeing the way the first "rotation" was thrown on people, I think we should vote to throw it out and build a new one from scratch today'
  218. [Sun Aug 09 09:23:31 2015] Trackanon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'For breaking ties.'
  219. [Sun Aug 09 09:23:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It would appear you are trying to impede the progress of this meeting.'
  220. [Sun Aug 09 09:23:39 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I am not opposed to voting'
  221. [Sun Aug 09 09:23:41 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Shall we call a vote on whether the sky is blue, just to see if we do all actually agree on one thing?'
  222. [Sun Aug 09 09:23:44 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you want to vote thats fine, ut all guilds have to agree and there is no tie breaker.'
  223. [Sun Aug 09 09:23:47 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but there will no be a tie-breaker'
  224. [Sun Aug 09 09:24:03 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'like the GMs said we need to all agree on changes to the current system'
  225. [Sun Aug 09 09:24:15 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so a tie-breaker is not needed'
  226. [Sun Aug 09 09:24:20 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and will never be needed'
  227. [Sun Aug 09 09:24:40 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If we allow our selfs to rule by the vocal few, then nothing will ever change Skelly. By this logic, Kunark will never be on a rotation.'
  228. [Sun Aug 09 09:24:45 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but I like the idea of voting to see if we can all agree on changes'
  229. [Sun Aug 09 09:24:48 2015] Trackanon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Skeely, We are trying to find what we all agree apon. This is about concencus.'
  230. [Sun Aug 09 09:24:51 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'As said, vote the way your guild wishes, we'll let the GMs sort out the rest'
  231. [Sun Aug 09 09:25:04 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'kunark wil lbe on the rotation as will all expansions'
  232. [Sun Aug 09 09:25:18 2015] Mhadlovins tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No one guild should have Veto Power over any change they wish. Which is why 100&PCT; will never work as it alows exactly that.'
  233. [Sun Aug 09 09:25:21 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its a raid rotation not a classic rotation only'
  234. [Sun Aug 09 09:25:22 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Not if a single guild can block the progress of the rest. That is what you are doing, want to go forth with.'
  235. [Sun Aug 09 09:25:23 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Let's say we were voting on whether to hunt in Blackburrow or Crushbone and there were 4 voting parties, two want BB and two want CB. A 5th party can be called in, cast a tiebreaker vote, and then the other two can be asked if they will agree. This is a scenario where a tiebreaker was used and all parties came to a unanimout agreement.'
  236. [Sun Aug 09 09:25:38 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, '@ Trackanon I understand and like I said I like the fact of voting to see if we all agree on changes....but no desicion can be made off of a tie breaker if not everyone agrees'
  237. [Sun Aug 09 09:26:19 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i move that we table tie-breaker discussion until a tie comes up'
  238. [Sun Aug 09 09:26:33 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and that we remove any existing tie-breaker'
  239. [Sun Aug 09 09:26:42 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i second First's motion'
  240. [Sun Aug 09 09:27:00 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i dont trust that, tehre is no tie breaker gms already said all guilds must agree. We can vote on stuff and if we all agree lets knock out the details. If we dont agree there is no tie breaker.'
  241. [Sun Aug 09 09:27:14 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, we've heard you'
  242. [Sun Aug 09 09:27:20 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'stop repeating that'
  243. [Sun Aug 09 09:27:21 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We are moving on, Melveny.'
  244. [Sun Aug 09 09:27:35 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I am glad we all agree on no tie-breaking'
  245. [Sun Aug 09 09:27:52 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we have to all agree, ok move on'
  246. [Sun Aug 09 09:28:00 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We don't all agree, but we can move on for now. '
  247. [Sun Aug 09 09:28:01 2015] Channel RotationCouncil is now moderated
  248. [Sun Aug 09 09:28:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Chat has been cleared for the ininitial vote'
  249. [Sun Aug 09 09:29:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'First, please state your discrepency before we vote'
  250. [Sun Aug 09 09:31:43 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the unique member clause is problematic, its exclusionary, its impossible to verify, is 35 members legit? is 34? it also makes all the votes with this language, essentially - A) everyone, B) existing rotation guilds only, or C & D) unique, i'd propose we go with - "planar members" or allow for a certain level of achievement'
  251. [Sun Aug 09 09:33:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Do you propose we remove the last two options entirely?'
  252. [Sun Aug 09 09:34:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Keeping in mind, it could open up the council to abuse down the road.'
  253. [Sun Aug 09 09:35:01 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(25) members:
  254. [Sun Aug 09 09:35:06 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i propose we amend, 2 options - A) remove "unqiue member" replace with "planar characters", or B) add "36 unique members....or have killed XXXX mob" - ie gorgolask, keeper of souls, or an existing rotaiton mob'
  255. [Sun Aug 09 09:35:24 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'options 3 & 4 if its not clear, on all the votes that contain "unique member"'
  256. [Sun Aug 09 09:35:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What does planar characters mean?'
  257. [Sun Aug 09 09:36:05 2015] You cannot speak on moderated channel RotationCouncil
  258. [Sun Aug 09 09:37:47 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'planar character would mean lvl 46 character in the guild, im also open to an "obviousness" test - ie, i think most of us could agree a glance at an in-game roster can determine a raid-capable guild'
  259. [Sun Aug 09 09:38:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok. I can agree with that. Opening chat back up'
  260. [Sun Aug 09 09:38:33 2015] Channel RotationCouncil is now unmoderated
  261. [Sun Aug 09 09:39:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Voting to amend the verbage to Planar characters in the initial agenda.'
  262. [Sun Aug 09 09:39:26 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'All in favor, vote 1. against, vote 2.'
  263. [Sun Aug 09 09:39:34 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '1'
  264. [Sun Aug 09 09:39:41 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '1'
  265. [Sun Aug 09 09:39:44 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, '1'
  266. [Sun Aug 09 09:39:49 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, '1'
  267. [Sun Aug 09 09:39:51 2015] Sunruy tells RotationCouncil:4, '1 '
  268. [Sun Aug 09 09:39:55 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, '1 <Darkwind>'
  269. [Sun Aug 09 09:40:01 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, '1'
  270. [Sun Aug 09 09:40:08 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, '1'
  271. [Sun Aug 09 09:40:09 2015] Barlow tells RotationCouncil:4, '1 - <Ceaseless>'
  272. [Sun Aug 09 09:40:20 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, '1'
  273. [Sun Aug 09 09:40:34 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '1'
  274. [Sun Aug 09 09:40:39 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, '1'
  275. [Sun Aug 09 09:40:57 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so alts get to vote as long as there are 46 plus?'
  276. [Sun Aug 09 09:41:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please include your guild name w ith voting, as barlow did (for future votes'
  277. [Sun Aug 09 09:41:52 2015] Sunruy tells RotationCouncil:4, 'will do Thalanos.'
  278. [Sun Aug 09 09:42:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, vote passed to change the verbage to from unique members to planar characters'
  279. [Sun Aug 09 09:42:12 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'My current vote count is 12 for, none opposed'
  280. [Sun Aug 09 09:43:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We can determine a method to verify this at a later date'
  281. [Sun Aug 09 09:43:35 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'nice, so a vote went through without explaination, or everyones vote considered....look good Thalanos'
  282. [Sun Aug 09 09:43:45 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'looking good'
  283. [Sun Aug 09 09:43:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd like to proceed with the initial vote to determine who is ELIGIBLE for voting (This is not the actual vote for who becomes a member.)'
  284. [Sun Aug 09 09:44:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'INITIAL vote for ALL guilds in attenance to decide who can participate in the vote that decides who can vote to d ecide who becomes a member). Yes this is confusing, yes it is necessary.'
  285. [Sun Aug 09 09:45:29 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(25) members:
  286. [Sun Aug 09 09:45:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Option 1: Any All guilds, Option 2: Any guild that has killed the most recent Gatekeeper, 3) Any guild with 36 planar characters, Option 4: Any guild with 36 planar characters that have killed the most recent Gatekeeper'
  287. [Sun Aug 09 09:45:54 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please vote 1-4'
  288. [Sun Aug 09 09:46:04 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, '2'
  289. [Sun Aug 09 09:46:05 2015] Jain -> Skyp: rotationcouncil:classic
  290. [Sun Aug 09 09:46:07 2015] Sunruy tells RotationCouncil:4, '1 <Dragoon Order of Veeshan>'
  291. [Sun Aug 09 09:46:24 2015] Barlow tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Ceaseless>'
  292. [Sun Aug 09 09:46:26 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Darkwind>'
  293. [Sun Aug 09 09:46:33 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Tempus>'
  294. [Sun Aug 09 09:46:41 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <False Prophecy>'
  295. [Sun Aug 09 09:46:51 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Remnants of Prexus>'
  296. [Sun Aug 09 09:46:53 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 < Evening Reign >'
  297. [Sun Aug 09 09:47:01 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Twisted Legacy>'
  298. [Sun Aug 09 09:47:08 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Afterlife>'
  299. [Sun Aug 09 09:47:13 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry I forgot to put Apokalypsis for the first 2 vote'
  300. [Sun Aug 09 09:47:18 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <The Last Guardian>'
  301. [Sun Aug 09 09:47:28 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, '3<Reign of Eternity>'
  302. [Sun Aug 09 09:48:29 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'oh sorry, I was confused on which thing we were voting on, re-read'
  303. [Sun Aug 09 09:48:49 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'long night :/ 3 <Remnants of Prexus>'
  304. [Sun Aug 09 09:49:09 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'give me 1 sec'
  305. [Sun Aug 09 09:49:20 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Current count is 1 vote for the first option, 1 vote for the second option, and 10 votes for the third option (no votes for the fourth)'
  306. [Sun Aug 09 09:49:34 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Rosengard>'
  307. [Sun Aug 09 09:50:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, vote passed with option 3: Any guild with 36 planar characters'
  308. [Sun Aug 09 09:51:00 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no votes passed as we all didnt agree'
  309. [Sun Aug 09 09:51:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd like to ask if those who voted for 1 or 2 would like to change their vote so we can have a unanimous decision'
  310. [Sun Aug 09 09:51:11 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so Votes will pass without everyone agreeing?'
  311. [Sun Aug 09 09:51:39 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Everyone has to agree for votes to pass'
  312. [Sun Aug 09 09:51:42 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Your objections have been noted Skelly and we are moving on'
  313. [Sun Aug 09 09:51:45 2015] Barlow tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This is a congress of guilds, not the UN Security Council.'
  314. [Sun Aug 09 09:52:05 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Who is Manvaril'
  315. [Sun Aug 09 09:52:24 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Manvaril is a senior Officer of False Prophecy'
  316. [Sun Aug 09 09:52:25 2015] Trackanon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'A voice of reason'
  317. [Sun Aug 09 09:52:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'DOoV or Apok do you care to change your vote for the sake of community agreement? I need to enter the vote into the minutes'
  318. [Sun Aug 09 09:52:50 2015] Sunruy tells RotationCouncil:4, 'XragoonOrder can not change cause that vote as stands excludes guilds that are part of this server and this is a server matter,'
  319. [Sun Aug 09 09:53:02 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'DOoV's objected noted'
  320. [Sun Aug 09 09:53:03 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so before we continue further, are we passing votes that we all dont agree on and going against the enforced rotation by gms?'
  321. [Sun Aug 09 09:53:15 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Make sure your disagreement is noted, and if it's true what GM's say about total consensus, it won't carry anyway. If it's not true, it will etc'
  322. [Sun Aug 09 09:53:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Melveny, we are moving on. '
  323. [Sun Aug 09 09:53:52 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'dont evade hte question'
  324. [Sun Aug 09 09:54:10 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I believe we do not know the answer to the question'
  325. [Sun Aug 09 09:54:21 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Guys I am sorry, but I feel like I am being strong armed into making changes that are not 100&PCT; agreed upon. I am trying to follow current GM rules, and this unofficial meeting doing everything in its power to go against what GMs have already put in place.'
  326. [Sun Aug 09 09:54:22 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'are you passing votes that we all dont agree on and going against the gm's ruling?'
  327. [Sun Aug 09 09:54:28 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If there are any GM's present, they may speak up and answer'
  328. [Sun Aug 09 09:55:46 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Votes and changes are being made without 100&PCT; agreement'
  329. [Sun Aug 09 09:55:52 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, they are'
  330. [Sun Aug 09 09:55:58 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Next VOTE: Anybody from a guild with 36 planar characters is allowed to participate in this:'
  331. [Sun Aug 09 09:56:01 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This is not what the GMs have put in place'
  332. [Sun Aug 09 09:56:06 2015] Trackanon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I was under the impression that was how voting worked, skelly'
  333. [Sun Aug 09 09:56:16 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'then discuss it with a GM, stop getting in the way of progress'
  334. [Sun Aug 09 09:56:25 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'votes are being logged in the minutes. Nothing is formalized until it's signed off on by DBG. This meeting is simply to show where people stand on a certain or multitude of issues. Once completeld, the framework will be shown to DBG and if they agree with unanimous decision being needed, then they will let us know.'
  335. [Sun Aug 09 09:56:28 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed Eaza'
  336. [Sun Aug 09 09:56:29 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i was under the impression we were going to actually have a meeting within the ruleset the gm's have given us. are we not doing that here?'
  337. [Sun Aug 09 09:56:37 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, 'These interpreted GM rules that keep coming up seem to be bogus, I've only read, from Holly, that she wants us to work together (which this is) to come up with a solution. We police ourselves.'
  338. [Sun Aug 09 09:57:10 2015] Channel RotationCouncil is now moderated
  339. [Sun Aug 09 09:57:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Chat moderated for a moment.'
  340. [Sun Aug 09 09:58:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Next Vote: Who is allowed to participate in the vote to decide who becomes a member? (Any guild with 36 planar characters can participate)'
  341. [Sun Aug 09 09:59:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Same options as before (excluding option 1 now that it is not relevant) 2) any guild that has killed the gatekeeper, 3) any guild with 36 planar characters, 4) any guild with 36 planar characters that has killed the most recent gatekeeper'
  342. [Sun Aug 09 10:00:05 2015] Channel RotationCouncil is now unmoderated
  343. [Sun Aug 09 10:00:05 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If we can not follow the rulings of the GMs then this meeting is in violation of the guildlines that GMs have given us.'
  344. [Sun Aug 09 10:00:13 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 and 4 is the same'
  345. [Sun Aug 09 10:00:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please vote.'
  346. [Sun Aug 09 10:00:24 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry 2 and 4'
  347. [Sun Aug 09 10:00:26 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Afterlife>'
  348. [Sun Aug 09 10:00:53 2015] Barlow tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Ceaseless> '
  349. [Sun Aug 09 10:01:02 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 < Twisted Legacy>'
  350. [Sun Aug 09 10:01:03 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Tempus>'
  351. [Sun Aug 09 10:01:06 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <False Prophecy>'
  352. [Sun Aug 09 10:01:08 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 < Evening Reign >'
  353. [Sun Aug 09 10:01:09 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <apok>'
  354. [Sun Aug 09 10:01:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ah you're right sorry. The proceeding votes did not take into account the outcome of the priors. Please vote on options 2 or 3'
  355. [Sun Aug 09 10:01:35 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, '4 <Darkwind>'
  356. [Sun Aug 09 10:01:47 2015] Sunruy tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 Dragoon>'
  357. [Sun Aug 09 10:02:06 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <TLG>'
  358. [Sun Aug 09 10:02:12 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Reign of Eternity>'
  359. [Sun Aug 09 10:02:16 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Darkwind>'
  360. [Sun Aug 09 10:02:46 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Current vote is 10 votes for option 3 and 2 votes for option 2'
  361. [Sun Aug 09 10:03:09 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Rosengard>'
  362. [Sun Aug 09 10:04:34 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, 'In favor of getting things accomplished, I'd like to change <Afterlife>'s vote to #3 please.'
  363. [Sun Aug 09 10:04:50 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Change entered'
  364. [Sun Aug 09 10:05:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The vote has passed - any guild with 36 planar characters is now allowed to vote on Membership.'
  365. [Sun Aug 09 10:05:11 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no votes pass we didnt agree.'
  366. [Sun Aug 09 10:05:32 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i'm sorry this meeting is in violation of the GM rules. Please send a tell when a meeting is held where we stay within the guidelines gm have given us.'
  367. [Sun Aug 09 10:05:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The final vote is now to decide who actually becomes a member. Remember, Members are the voting populus.'
  368. [Sun Aug 09 10:05:52 2015] Zugab tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hey folks, I represent ROE, I dont have long but figure be best if I am in here with the time I have to be on atm'
  369. [Sun Aug 09 10:06:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Apoks stance has again, been noted Melveny.'
  370. [Sun Aug 09 10:06:23 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'she's gone'
  371. [Sun Aug 09 10:06:27 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Zugab added to the roll, Apok's dissenting vote noted'
  372. [Sun Aug 09 10:06:30 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(25) members:
  373. [Sun Aug 09 10:06:54 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Eaza has questions before we proceed'
  374. [Sun Aug 09 10:07:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'please bring them into this channel'
  375. [Sun Aug 09 10:07:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This is not voting on who is part of the rotation, but rather who is allowed to vote.'
  376. [Sun Aug 09 10:07:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'aka Member'
  377. [Sun Aug 09 10:07:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We are on agenda item 2 b - b. Who is allowed to participate in the {Vote} to decide who becomes a Member?'
  378. [Sun Aug 09 10:08:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '2b has passed, we are now moving onto 2c'
  379. [Sun Aug 09 10:08:09 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'okay, thank you, then, if I may vote late, Jain, add <Remnants of Prexus> to option 3'
  380. [Sun Aug 09 10:08:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If there are no objections to the late vote, RoP's vote added'
  381. [Sun Aug 09 10:09:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This vote does not change the outcome, and has been noted.'
  382. [Sun Aug 09 10:09:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Effective Immediately, who becomes a Member (Who can vote?) Option 2: or option 3:'
  383. [Sun Aug 09 10:09:50 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'aren't a and b the same thing?'
  384. [Sun Aug 09 10:10:12 2015] Jain -> Leche: rotationcouncil:classic
  385. [Sun Aug 09 10:10:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'option 2: Guild that has killed the gatekeeper, option 3: 36 planar members'
  386. [Sun Aug 09 10:10:22 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would clarification please'
  387. [Sun Aug 09 10:10:49 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'correction, its "planar characters" - (not important)'
  388. [Sun Aug 09 10:10:50 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I apologize Thalanos, but I thought that's what we just voted on?'
  389. [Sun Aug 09 10:10:52 2015] Skelly tells RotationCouncil:4, 'For the record, Apokalypsis agrees with the rotation that the GMs have set in place for us. We are willing to vote and make changes to the current rotation with the rules that the GMs have set in place, but this meeting is in violation of everything that the GMs have set for us. Whenever a meeting is held that can sustain GMs rulings please feel free to contact Apokalypsis to attend. Thank you for your time.'
  390. [Sun Aug 09 10:11:06 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(26) members:
  391. [Sun Aug 09 10:11:15 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, '2c is for who (guild) is a member of the council, but not nessisarily on the rotation, is this correct?'
  392. [Sun Aug 09 10:11:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Clarification: I know it's confusing guys. It's essentially the same vote as last time. But if the outcomes had been different in votes 1 and 2, 3 would be necessary'
  393. [Sun Aug 09 10:11:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'at this point its a formailty.'
  394. [Sun Aug 09 10:11:43 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please post the link that has these "rules" the GM's have set in place'
  395. [Sun Aug 09 10:11:49 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(26) members:
  396. [Sun Aug 09 10:11:53 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(26) members:
  397. [Sun Aug 09 10:12:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Adding Leche <Canadian Armed Forces> to the roll'
  398. [Sun Aug 09 10:12:15 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We acknowledge Apokalypsis' stance, thank you Skelly.'
  399. [Sun Aug 09 10:12:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, a Member does not mean they are part of the rotation.'
  400. [Sun Aug 09 10:12:33 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Hey everyone sorry im late Saytonic got had a RL issue'
  401. [Sun Aug 09 10:12:34 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thank you'
  402. [Sun Aug 09 10:12:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we w ill vote on that in a bit'
  403. [Sun Aug 09 10:12:57 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thalanos, I"m referring to your agenda. Aren't 2.a and 2.b the same thing?'
  404. [Sun Aug 09 10:13:20 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Jain said we were on 2B, so I am jsut trying to make sure I underestand what we are voting on'
  405. [Sun Aug 09 10:13:50 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry by 2b I meant we had just had the 2b vote'
  406. [Sun Aug 09 10:14:15 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ahh, ok, move along then, I am an idiot'
  407. [Sun Aug 09 10:14:19 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would like to make a motion to amend option 3 of 2c'
  408. [Sun Aug 09 10:14:21 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We had to have an initial vote that allowed everyone present to vote. It was the only fair way to do it. Once we proceeded with that, we cast another vote to decide who could vote to become a member. Now that we've done that, we're actually voting who can become a member. If the votes had gone d ifferently, this would be relevant. But its not. For the sake of moving this meeting forward, let's consider our last vote 2c.'
  409. [Sun Aug 09 10:14:35 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please strike 2c from the agenda in the notes Jain'
  410. [Sun Aug 09 10:15:02 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Agenda item 2C struck'
  411. [Sun Aug 09 10:15:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, moving forward... We finally have a voting populus. Sorry that it was painful. I could have worded a few options a bit better. '
  412. [Sun Aug 09 10:16:15 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No worries here, glad to be voting. '
  413. [Sun Aug 09 10:16:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Future Guild Membership'
  414. [Sun Aug 09 10:16:39 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '#3 on the agenda.'
  415. [Sun Aug 09 10:16:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Should there be any barriers for new guilds looking to become Members? The options presented are:'
  416. [Sun Aug 09 10:17:05 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'quick note - there is a raid where some occassional non-official comments are made, thalanos is RL, please get an invite if you're in this channel and wish to join'
  417. [Sun Aug 09 10:17:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '1) No, if the guild meets the initial member criteria, they immediately get voting rights'
  418. [Sun Aug 09 10:17:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '2) Yes, there should be a 30 day voting lockout'
  419. [Sun Aug 09 10:17:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '3) Yes, new guilds should have to wait 3 months, or until the next expansion is unlocked (whichever comes sooner)'
  420. [Sun Aug 09 10:18:38 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'quick point of order before voting, since now voting takes on a new meaning'
  421. [Sun Aug 09 10:18:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anyone have any questions about these options, or would like to add/amend?'
  422. [Sun Aug 09 10:18:43 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'discussion first?'
  423. [Sun Aug 09 10:19:21 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(26) members:
  424. [Sun Aug 09 10:19:31 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can you please define when the 30day or 3 month times are started?'
  425. [Sun Aug 09 10:19:31 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'do we know who is voting on things from here on out based on the criteria we figured out?'
  426. [Sun Aug 09 10:19:49 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'With the current critera (36 level 46 characters), it's very easy to generate a qualifying guild.'
  427. [Sun Aug 09 10:20:20 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i like the idea of the same council for an entire xpack or 3months wich ever comes first. guilds can still come into the rotation, but the council agrees on the terms'
  428. [Sun Aug 09 10:20:36 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'to pass'
  429. [Sun Aug 09 10:20:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Is there any guild present which does not have 36 planar members and will be honest enough to let us know so they can step back from voting (but not from participating in discussion)?'
  430. [Sun Aug 09 10:21:02 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '2. <False Prophecy> We thing that a 30 day period would prevent the creation of new guilds purely to influence voting -- without locking a guild out for an expansion'
  431. [Sun Aug 09 10:21:40 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'keep in mind, this is just for voting on changes during a meeting, not affect a guilds ability to join the rotation'
  432. [Sun Aug 09 10:21:42 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Since alt guilds have not been brought up, it'd be an easy matter for an invested guild to coup, or create a power race.'
  433. [Sun Aug 09 10:21:50 2015] Barlow tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Unfortunately I need to leave. I am designating Scipio as the delegate (voting spokesperson) for Ceaseless'
  434. [Sun Aug 09 10:21:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'correct'
  435. [Sun Aug 09 10:22:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, thank you Barlow'
  436. [Sun Aug 09 10:22:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Thank you Barlow, noted'
  437. [Sun Aug 09 10:22:07 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'where alts could create a majority situation'
  438. [Sun Aug 09 10:22:25 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(26) members:
  439. [Sun Aug 09 10:22:35 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Reign of Eternity> the only thing that I am concerned about is alt/box guilds abusing this'
  440. [Sun Aug 09 10:23:30 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its almost impossible to identify alt guilds, short of asking DBG to compare account memberships on guild rosters'
  441. [Sun Aug 09 10:23:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '30 day voting lockout from the time t hey become a member'
  442. [Sun Aug 09 10:23:51 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would like to say Evening Reign only has 34 46 members at this time but we do have several level 45 members close to getting 46'
  443. [Sun Aug 09 10:24:00 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it's open for arms race and coups regardless of the options.'
  444. [Sun Aug 09 10:24:11 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I would like some clarification for the record, this is in conjunction with also voting on them becoming a member? Am I understanding this right?'
  445. [Sun Aug 09 10:24:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'essentially on probabion'
  446. [Sun Aug 09 10:24:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Oh, you're right. I'm tired.'
  447. [Sun Aug 09 10:24:58 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so people understand, thalanos has created a rotation council that decides rotation decisions, but the rotation council members are not necessarily in the rotation'
  448. [Sun Aug 09 10:25:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '(I am going back and forth between the chat and the minutes doc)'
  449. [Sun Aug 09 10:25:21 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so whats being discussed is membership in the council, who can set the rotation terms'
  450. [Sun Aug 09 10:25:32 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think option 3 sounds oki. with 1 addition.. Instead of the expansion unlock make it 30 days minimum wait until you can vote'
  451. [Sun Aug 09 10:25:39 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'essentially, its (based on our votes) raid interested guilds deciding the raiding scene'
  452. [Sun Aug 09 10:25:44 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I was under the impression also, that even if a guild qualifies, they still have to be voted in'
  453. [Sun Aug 09 10:25:48 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'which essentially makes up option 2'
  454. [Sun Aug 09 10:25:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think that's what i meant by lockout when I wrote it :/'
  455. [Sun Aug 09 10:25:57 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Eaza's point is what I'm asking about'
  456. [Sun Aug 09 10:26:19 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, but atm, nearly every guild here could produce 1-2 extra 36 lvl 46 guilds, I'm willing to bet. '
  457. [Sun Aug 09 10:26:30 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'since we're talking accounts, or even characters, not unique people.'
  458. [Sun Aug 09 10:26:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No, we decided that any guild with 36 planar characters that attend the meeting are members.'
  459. [Sun Aug 09 10:27:12 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, and regardless of that, it's easy to meet the current qualification, regardless of the 3 options.'
  460. [Sun Aug 09 10:27:38 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'which could create a scene where a single guild (with their alts) attain majority votes'
  461. [Sun Aug 09 10:27:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'What we are adding now is an additional requirement, is this right? 36 planar members plus whatever we decide on here?'
  462. [Sun Aug 09 10:27:51 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if so inclined.'
  463. [Sun Aug 09 10:28:14 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i feel like we shouldnt focus on what ifs, and deal with it if it comes up'
  464. [Sun Aug 09 10:28:25 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so are you asking us to vote then, on how to block guilds like those you're describing from becoming members, right?'
  465. [Sun Aug 09 10:28:33 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I feel it's very important, since if we want this stable, it shouldn't be easily coupable.'
  466. [Sun Aug 09 10:29:13 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agre with zantosa, but I feel like we can get those extra rules added at any time (now would be fine, or later)'
  467. [Sun Aug 09 10:29:27 2015] Arch tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I am coming up w/33 planar characters for <Afterlife> at this moment, my vote is out for now. '
  468. [Sun Aug 09 10:29:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Noted Archy, and thank you'
  469. [Sun Aug 09 10:29:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '30 day voting lockout from the first meeting attended. How do we feel about that?'
  470. [Sun Aug 09 10:29:51 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think everyone has shown a willingness to work together here, and I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that nobody is trying to game the system'
  471. [Sun Aug 09 10:30:13 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i think we're approaching it from all angles, to break it down, does anyone disagree that thus far, we're establishing who in THIS MEETING is helping to build a community rotation? and that isn't necessarily the same question as who is a member once its built?'
  472. [Sun Aug 09 10:30:14 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, '________ Please, everyone understand this : Council will deside on the terms to enter the rotation,you do not have to be a voting guild to be able to enter the rotation'
  473. [Sun Aug 09 10:30:18 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i agree thalnos, it would have be the time since their first meeting or when they officially declare themselves a memeber'
  474. [Sun Aug 09 10:30:27 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Shrug, consider the toxicity before on this, leaving a window open and then trying to close it will be tricky.'
  475. [Sun Aug 09 10:30:48 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'id like to put safeguards in place now for future membership, but id also like to not straight jacket ourselves'
  476. [Sun Aug 09 10:31:25 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'A simple rule like if caught with it, main guild gets ejected from the rotation for a full expansion or sommert'
  477. [Sun Aug 09 10:31:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What do we propose the options are?'
  478. [Sun Aug 09 10:32:10 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and guild that absorb a significant chunk of their members etc'
  479. [Sun Aug 09 10:32:38 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'That would be up to GMs really, if suspsicion is high enough to warrant'
  480. [Sun Aug 09 10:32:46 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'since they want to help police it'
  481. [Sun Aug 09 10:33:39 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but if you're gaming two guilds (even now) for extra votes, should be immedietaly removed.'
  482. [Sun Aug 09 10:34:08 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Could we use teh same super majority we talked of the other night, and have members actually voted in with 80&PCT; approval or something? If somehting fishy is going on, then the membership has a mechanism to stop it, without making a ton of work for anyone at DBG which they may or may not even be willing to do '
  483. [Sun Aug 09 10:34:21 2015] Mhadlovins tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Later in the Agenda there is a section regarding removal of guild that are in Violation. Can we move along and create a list of qualifying violations at that time?'
  484. [Sun Aug 09 10:35:00 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that seems reasonable mhad, i thinbk it would be more produdent to allow for us to remove bad guilds instead of preventing them from joining'
  485. [Sun Aug 09 10:35:01 2015] Sunruy tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I hate to do this to my guildbut i have to step down from all votes. We do not have the member count to quilify for any further votes. Transfers to LJ made us lose any right now.'
  486. [Sun Aug 09 10:35:18 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it's just so easy making a qualifying guild atm that would get voting rights within a timeset limit.'
  487. [Sun Aug 09 10:35:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry to hear that Sunruy. I will talk to you after the meeting to offer you some ideas.'
  488. [Sun Aug 09 10:36:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You're welcoem to stay and contribute to the discussion though'
  489. [Sun Aug 09 10:36:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Welcome*'
  490. [Sun Aug 09 10:37:04 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i think, without DBG policing, that you can only do the best you can, that is probably 1) some sort of time limit, 2) some sort of way to remove'
  491. [Sun Aug 09 10:37:05 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i agree with you on that mhad..'
  492. [Sun Aug 09 10:37:09 2015] Sunruy tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thank you for this well done meeting and thank you for at least giving a bit of a chance'
  493. [Sun Aug 09 10:37:28 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'atm i think we are over complicating things to an end where people dont really (including my self) gets what exactly we are voting and not voting on..'
  494. [Sun Aug 09 10:37:49 2015] Trackanon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We should focus on specifics'
  495. [Sun Aug 09 10:37:51 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree first, having a minimum time until a new member can vote, and a good way to remove problem members is important'
  496. [Sun Aug 09 10:38:12 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'a minimum time is what's being voted on'
  497. [Sun Aug 09 10:38:18 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'again, keep in mind, this does not nessisirily prevent or change anyones position on the actual rotation. this is ONLY for decision making'
  498. [Sun Aug 09 10:38:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Agreed. It is to prevent potential abuse from splinter guilds'
  499. [Sun Aug 09 10:39:08 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think all of us have an idea in our mind of what a "real guild is" and all we're trying to do is put that down on paper, so real guilds are on the rotation and not-real guilds aren't'
  500. [Sun Aug 09 10:39:18 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so, lets vote on the time lockout, then vote next on barriers?'
  501. [Sun Aug 09 10:39:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd like to amend option 2 in the vote to a 30 day lockout period from the first meeting attended.'
  502. [Sun Aug 09 10:39:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'is this fair?'
  503. [Sun Aug 09 10:39:43 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds fair to me'
  504. [Sun Aug 09 10:39:52 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'add the same to #3'
  505. [Sun Aug 09 10:39:54 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds fair to me'
  506. [Sun Aug 09 10:40:00 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds fair'
  507. [Sun Aug 09 10:40:02 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i second that motion form thalanos'
  508. [Sun Aug 09 10:40:03 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds fair to me '
  509. [Sun Aug 09 10:40:07 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'soudns fair'
  510. [Sun Aug 09 10:40:13 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds*'
  511. [Sun Aug 09 10:40:21 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'good with me'
  512. [Sun Aug 09 10:40:26 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i move that we rename 3a -> 3b, that we create a new question 3a - "Should adding guilds as a member require a majority vote?" - a) yes, b) no, i also move to amend the new 2b) to add option "iv. Yes, there should be a 45 day lockout period."'
  513. [Sun Aug 09 10:40:31 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'also, sounds good to me'
  514. [Sun Aug 09 10:40:54 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry last part should be 3b) to add option....iv'
  515. [Sun Aug 09 10:41:08 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds Fair'
  516. [Sun Aug 09 10:41:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I Second First's motion.'
  517. [Sun Aug 09 10:41:44 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds good as well'
  518. [Sun Aug 09 10:41:52 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thalanos, please deal with your first motion :)'
  519. [Sun Aug 09 10:43:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry for the delay guys, we're trying to get these changes recorded and handled as quick as possible'
  520. [Sun Aug 09 10:45:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So we now have a new 3A on the agenda: Should addings guilds as a member require a majority vote?'
  521. [Sun Aug 09 10:45:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'simple yes/no vote - state your guild with vote. '
  522. [Sun Aug 09 10:45:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Majority vote wins, yes'
  523. [Sun Aug 09 10:46:01 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Are we going with the same 7&PCT;&PCT; we voted on the other night?'
  524. [Sun Aug 09 10:46:11 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  525. [Sun Aug 09 10:46:12 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Ceaseless>'
  526. [Sun Aug 09 10:46:19 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <False Prophecy>'
  527. [Sun Aug 09 10:46:24 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'clarification on what is majority'
  528. [Sun Aug 09 10:46:29 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  529. [Sun Aug 09 10:47:05 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Canadian Armed Forces>'
  530. [Sun Aug 09 10:47:07 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'assuming 51&PCT;?'
  531. [Sun Aug 09 10:47:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The membership has not voted to change anything other than 51 &PCT; yet, so that is what we are working with.'
  532. [Sun Aug 09 10:47:18 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thank you'
  533. [Sun Aug 09 10:47:19 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Rosengard>'
  534. [Sun Aug 09 10:47:26 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <TLG>'
  535. [Sun Aug 09 10:47:27 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  536. [Sun Aug 09 10:47:27 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  537. [Sun Aug 09 10:47:30 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <RoE>'
  538. [Sun Aug 09 10:47:35 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we voted to make rotation changes with 75&PCT; super majorty the other night'
  539. [Sun Aug 09 10:47:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We were not a council then ;)'
  540. [Sun Aug 09 10:48:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote is unanimous - 10 votes for, none opposed?'
  541. [Sun Aug 09 10:48:04 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'when was the vote to do 51&PCT;?'
  542. [Sun Aug 09 10:48:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The membership has not voted to change anything other than 51 &PCT; yet, so that is what we are working with.'
  543. [Sun Aug 09 10:48:29 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '(so far all votes have been above 75&PCT;)'
  544. [Sun Aug 09 10:48:49 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, '51&PCT; is only as is, because 51&PCT; is a majority, I believe'
  545. [Sun Aug 09 10:49:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Correct'
  546. [Sun Aug 09 10:49:38 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I move that we establish what passes a vote then. I realize that everything is going swimmingly, but people brought up concerns that could be eliminated by simply raising the threshhold'
  547. [Sun Aug 09 10:49:45 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'all majority votes i have ever done in the 31 years of my life have been 51&PCT; majority'
  548. [Sun Aug 09 10:49:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd like to point out that in the future we will have at least a week to hash over and correct all my typos on these agendas, but this was literally done over one evening, so I apologize if there are any inconsistencies.'
  549. [Sun Aug 09 10:50:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think that's fair Ryan. Lets finish up this vote and establish what constitutes a majority'
  550. [Sun Aug 09 10:50:44 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We are primarily voting with a heavy consensus so while I agree it's a valid point it seems to not yet be an issue'
  551. [Sun Aug 09 10:50:59 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I motion to amend the rule of 51&PCT; to be a supermajority of 75&PCT;'
  552. [Sun Aug 09 10:51:11 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, '<Tempus> agrees, but I don't remember which number it was =)'
  553. [Sun Aug 09 10:51:15 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'one second, i think we should add options'
  554. [Sun Aug 09 10:51:32 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'scipio do you mind if we add some options to the voting majority question?'
  555. [Sun Aug 09 10:51:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'First, please lay out the options as we modified them, since we don't have them in front of us on our agenda'
  556. [Sun Aug 09 10:52:01 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree Jain, but several folks brought up concerns about people gaming the system. I just wanted to see if we coudl eliminate that potentially as a possibility, so everyone feels better about the vote they are casting'
  557. [Sun Aug 09 10:52:04 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'please elaborate'
  558. [Sun Aug 09 10:52:05 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'This is getting a little convoluted in the minutes'
  559. [Sun Aug 09 10:52:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Let's take care of the votes currently on the table before changing what constitutes a majority'
  560. [Sun Aug 09 10:52:24 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'welcome to government'
  561. [Sun Aug 09 10:52:32 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Hmm. Yes.'
  562. [Sun Aug 09 10:55:39 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'formally, i move to amend - New question #3ab - "What constitutes a necessary voting &PCT; of members to make changes?" A) 51&PCT;, B) 2/3rds, C) 75&PCT;'
  563. [Sun Aug 09 10:56:35 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  564. [Sun Aug 09 10:56:45 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Third'
  565. [Sun Aug 09 10:56:45 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I second if that's needed'
  566. [Sun Aug 09 10:56:56 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'So we are voting to amend 2d, is that correct? d. The proposal with the highest number of votes wins, and passes immediately.'
  567. [Sun Aug 09 10:57:01 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Or is this a general vote'
  568. [Sun Aug 09 10:57:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok. Motion to add what constitutes a majority has passed with a)51&PCT; B) 2/3rds C) 75'
  569. [Sun Aug 09 10:58:06 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Let's vote on this now. '
  570. [Sun Aug 09 10:58:08 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no'
  571. [Sun Aug 09 10:58:08 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'should be general voting'
  572. [Sun Aug 09 10:58:12 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its general voting'
  573. [Sun Aug 09 10:58:12 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No?'
  574. [Sun Aug 09 10:58:22 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'one vote to cover all votes, imo'
  575. [Sun Aug 09 10:58:24 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'He was answering my question I believe'
  576. [Sun Aug 09 10:58:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I see.'
  577. [Sun Aug 09 10:58:35 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I just wanted to clarify whether this was general or 2d'
  578. [Sun Aug 09 10:58:54 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'technically admitting to the rotation is not changed, its its own item atm'
  579. [Sun Aug 09 10:59:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '(I am having to catch up on chat in snatches, recording minutes)'
  580. [Sun Aug 09 10:59:19 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '(by my motion)'
  581. [Sun Aug 09 11:02:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, I believe we're now ready. Let's vote on: What constitutes a majority. A) 51&PCT; B) 2/3rds C) 75 &PCT;'
  582. [Sun Aug 09 11:02:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Members vote:'
  583. [Sun Aug 09 11:02:26 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'B <Darkwind>'
  584. [Sun Aug 09 11:02:30 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'B <Ceaseless>'
  585. [Sun Aug 09 11:02:34 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'B <Tempus>'
  586. [Sun Aug 09 11:02:36 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'B < Evening Reign >'
  587. [Sun Aug 09 11:02:40 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 (b?) <Remnants of Prexus>'
  588. [Sun Aug 09 11:02:41 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'B <False Prophecy>'
  589. [Sun Aug 09 11:02:56 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'B <Canadian Armed Forces>'
  590. [Sun Aug 09 11:02:58 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'B <RoE>'
  591. [Sun Aug 09 11:03:05 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'B<TLG>'
  592. [Sun Aug 09 11:03:11 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'B <Twisted Legacy>'
  593. [Sun Aug 09 11:03:20 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'B <Rosengard>'
  594. [Sun Aug 09 11:03:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '11 for option B, no dissent? Unanimous?'
  595. [Sun Aug 09 11:05:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Okay, unanimous vote for option B. We have determined that 2/3rds of the voting Membership constitutes a majority.'
  596. [Sun Aug 09 11:08:35 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we move on please'
  597. [Sun Aug 09 11:08:53 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I bet he's typing'
  598. [Sun Aug 09 11:09:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, sorry. There are a lot of different chats going on.'
  599. [Sun Aug 09 11:09:16 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Moving on...'
  600. [Sun Aug 09 11:09:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Let's vote on (now 3b)'
  601. [Sun Aug 09 11:09:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Future Guild Membership'
  602. [Sun Aug 09 11:10:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Question: Should there be any entry barriers for new guilds looking to become members? '
  603. [Sun Aug 09 11:10:51 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Forgive me, this is 3a or 3b? Was a 3b added? I may have missed it'
  604. [Sun Aug 09 11:11:38 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(23) members:
  605. [Sun Aug 09 11:11:40 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it looks like 3a'
  606. [Sun Aug 09 11:11:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Option 1) No, if a guild meets the initial member criteria, they immediately get voting rights. 2) Yes, there should be a 30 day voting lockout period from the first meeting attended as a Member, 3) Yes, new guilds should have to wait 3 m onths from the first meeting attended'
  607. [Sun Aug 09 11:11:54 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Just wanted to make sure a 3b wasn't added'
  608. [Sun Aug 09 11:12:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'First moved something else into 3a'
  609. [Sun Aug 09 11:12:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm waiting for him to clarify what it was because i"ve already forgotten :/'
  610. [Sun Aug 09 11:12:18 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sec'
  611. [Sun Aug 09 11:12:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Thank you'
  612. [Sun Aug 09 11:12:45 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'new 3a was the majority to add a new member, new 3b is the 3a on agenda iv.) 45 day lockout, i dont know where the majority vote = 66&PCT; turned out # wise'
  613. [Sun Aug 09 11:13:17 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok change being noted, proceed'
  614. [Sun Aug 09 11:14:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Option 1) No, if a guild meets the initial member criteria, they immediately get voting rights. 2) Yes, there should be a 30 day voting lockout period from the first meeting attended as a Member, 3) Yes, new guilds should have to wait 45 days from the first meeting attended as Member.'
  615. [Sun Aug 09 11:15:04 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '2. <False Prophecy> '
  616. [Sun Aug 09 11:15:07 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Rosengard>'
  617. [Sun Aug 09 11:15:14 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Ceaseless>'
  618. [Sun Aug 09 11:15:20 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <RoE>'
  619. [Sun Aug 09 11:15:22 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Darkwind>'
  620. [Sun Aug 09 11:15:25 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Tempus>'
  621. [Sun Aug 09 11:15:29 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 < Evening Reign >'
  622. [Sun Aug 09 11:15:42 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Canadian Armed Forces>'
  623. [Sun Aug 09 11:15:45 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Remnants of Prexus>'
  624. [Sun Aug 09 11:16:00 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Twisted Legacy>'
  625. [Sun Aug 09 11:16:17 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <tlg>'
  626. [Sun Aug 09 11:17:05 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '6 votes for 2 and 5 votes for 3'
  627. [Sun Aug 09 11:17:34 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Just in the nick of time eh'
  628. [Sun Aug 09 11:17:48 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i believe the problem is 2 and 3 are the same except 3 is an extra 15 days'
  629. [Sun Aug 09 11:18:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'That is correct manvaril'
  630. [Sun Aug 09 11:18:46 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I move to making a 3d with a 35 day wait'
  631. [Sun Aug 09 11:19:10 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd be willing to swap to option 3 as well'
  632. [Sun Aug 09 11:19:38 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would be Willing to Vote 3. to gain a majority False Prophecy'
  633. [Sun Aug 09 11:21:13 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Motion to revote'
  634. [Sun Aug 09 11:21:19 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  635. [Sun Aug 09 11:21:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We need 8 votes to pass, for the record'
  636. [Sun Aug 09 11:21:25 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, '<Tempus> changes vote to 3'
  637. [Sun Aug 09 11:21:40 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Rosengard>'
  638. [Sun Aug 09 11:21:45 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 < Evening Reign >'
  639. [Sun Aug 09 11:21:46 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Darkwind>'
  640. [Sun Aug 09 11:21:48 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 < Twisted Legacy>'
  641. [Sun Aug 09 11:21:49 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Ceaseless>'
  642. [Sun Aug 09 11:21:56 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '3. False Prophecy'
  643. [Sun Aug 09 11:21:56 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, '3<RoE>'
  644. [Sun Aug 09 11:21:59 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Canadian Armed Forces>'
  645. [Sun Aug 09 11:22:02 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Remnants of Prexus>'
  646. [Sun Aug 09 11:22:21 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'more than 8, there we go'
  647. [Sun Aug 09 11:22:21 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, '3<tlg>'
  648. [Sun Aug 09 11:22:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote to move the lockout period to 45 days from first meeting of membership has passed unanimously'
  649. [Sun Aug 09 11:22:44 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Unanimous re-vote entered'
  650. [Sun Aug 09 11:23:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, moving on. Alt Guild Membership:'
  651. [Sun Aug 09 11:24:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'As proposed, we are trying to define what an alt guild is. Current votes are : The council won't decide, we trust guilds to let us know they are. 2) The Council determines if a guild is an alt guild (right or wrong) by a majority vote. Evidence is presented to members prior to vote, if applicable. '
  652. [Sun Aug 09 11:24:54 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please discuss these, '
  653. [Sun Aug 09 11:25:14 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'question - we added a vote on who gets in requiring majority vote, is this a necessary vote even?'
  654. [Sun Aug 09 11:25:59 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that was on who get sto be members of the council not the rotation?'
  655. [Sun Aug 09 11:26:03 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I dont see alt guilds as being important'
  656. [Sun Aug 09 11:26:04 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not sure of thalanos's intent - was this intended to be more about restricting what may be considered "gaming the rotation"?'
  657. [Sun Aug 09 11:26:37 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or is this about adding Rosengard's buddies who form <Euro Alliance> with their alts and want a slot?'
  658. [Sun Aug 09 11:26:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Well. If a guild proclaims itself to b e an alt guild... are we accepting them? Simple question'
  659. [Sun Aug 09 11:26:59 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'on the council or rotation?'
  660. [Sun Aug 09 11:27:12 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no'
  661. [Sun Aug 09 11:27:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Currently we are discussing whether or not they can become members (vote)'
  662. [Sun Aug 09 11:27:25 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thalanos, if I might ask a favor. When putting these up for either discussion or vote, would it be possible to say whether it's rotation membership, or council membership, since we're determined those are not always going to be the same thing?'
  663. [Sun Aug 09 11:27:33 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'imo they shouldnt be accepted onto the rotation if proven to be an alt guild'
  664. [Sun Aug 09 11:27:38 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this seems like a very similiar issue to what we just discussed'
  665. [Sun Aug 09 11:27:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Everything we've talked about up to this point has been Voting based. '
  666. [Sun Aug 09 11:27:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'People just keep asking the same question :)'
  667. [Sun Aug 09 11:27:57 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if proven alt guild, both them and parent guild should be excluded'
  668. [Sun Aug 09 11:28:01 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'okay, lets vote, everyone understands'
  669. [Sun Aug 09 11:28:08 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the question is about voting members, i think the answer is no, and we already sorta discussed this earlier (it came up on the future member portion)'
  670. [Sun Aug 09 11:28:22 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Motion to close discussion and vote'
  671. [Sun Aug 09 11:28:49 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this about conicl not rotation btw '
  672. [Sun Aug 09 11:29:03 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'id like to motion to amend section 4) Should alt guilds be a voting member of the council - 1) yes, 2) no '
  673. [Sun Aug 09 11:29:12 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  674. [Sun Aug 09 11:30:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, motion to amend section 4 to a yes/no vote has passed'
  675. [Sun Aug 09 11:30:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Let's vote: Should alt guilds be a voting member of the council 1) yes 2) no'
  676. [Sun Aug 09 11:31:03 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Rosengard>'
  677. [Sun Aug 09 11:31:05 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no <Ceaseless>'
  678. [Sun Aug 09 11:31:06 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 < Evening Reign >'
  679. [Sun Aug 09 11:31:16 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Darkwind>'
  680. [Sun Aug 09 11:31:22 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Tempus>'
  681. [Sun Aug 09 11:31:25 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '2. No <False Prophecy>'
  682. [Sun Aug 09 11:31:30 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <RoE>'
  683. [Sun Aug 09 11:31:47 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no <tlg>'
  684. [Sun Aug 09 11:31:47 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Remnants of Prexus>'
  685. [Sun Aug 09 11:31:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'These decisions are for the current expansion. If alt guilds are acceptable in kunark or velious (to the members), then the vote can be changed at that time (for clarification)'
  686. [Sun Aug 09 11:32:03 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '2/No <Twisted Legacy>'
  687. [Sun Aug 09 11:32:08 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Canadian Armed Forces>'
  688. [Sun Aug 09 11:32:49 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '11 votes for no, unanimous'
  689. [Sun Aug 09 11:33:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Great. We've determined alt guilds are not a voting member of the council (in classic)'
  690. [Sun Aug 09 11:34:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We've concluded our first goal (Forming the council). Does anyone have any questions or concerns over the structure of it?'
  691. [Sun Aug 09 11:34:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'do we have any glaring issues we need to address immediately?'
  692. [Sun Aug 09 11:34:32 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Who is on rotation ?'
  693. [Sun Aug 09 11:34:35 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We now know who can vote, and who can become members.'
  694. [Sun Aug 09 11:34:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The next item on the agenda is rotation modifications, matthias'
  695. [Sun Aug 09 11:35:02 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry, thank you - i am tired'
  696. [Sun Aug 09 11:35:12 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, moving on. '
  697. [Sun Aug 09 11:35:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Rotation Eligibility: Proposed options: Anybody that is currently a voting member. 2) Anybody that is a voting member and has killed the current gatekeeper. Discuss'
  698. [Sun Aug 09 11:36:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Is this straight forward, or do we need to modify the question.'
  699. [Sun Aug 09 11:36:59 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i think its need a 3rd option'
  700. [Sun Aug 09 11:37:05 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I"d like to address something on this'
  701. [Sun Aug 09 11:37:14 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'just straight up anyone whos killed a gatekeeper.. '
  702. [Sun Aug 09 11:37:32 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not sure that everyone who joins the rotation cares to be part of the council and join meetings'
  703. [Sun Aug 09 11:37:56 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'with current content, this is pretty straightforward. Once we get additional expansions, things are going to change however. More content, and more guilds able to kill raid mobs'
  704. [Sun Aug 09 11:38:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'That's kinda the point of the council. it would be very difficult to manage or poliice outside entities'
  705. [Sun Aug 09 11:39:44 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If the gatekeeper is for instance Trakanon, and guilds who are able to kill all 4mobs currently on the rotation but not able to kill Trak, they will be inherently excluded from the entire rotation of mobs under the current system. And if all mobs in previous expansion go FFA, they will still be excluded, since they are primarily only going to be raiding in select time slots'
  706. [Sun Aug 09 11:40:24 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'actually point of clarification, youre didnt actually ask who IS on the rotation, you asked who is Eligible - thats actually sorta not the same thing'
  707. [Sun Aug 09 11:40:32 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'which did you intend?'
  708. [Sun Aug 09 11:40:39 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '(we all have alot of 20hr awake periods i know)'
  709. [Sun Aug 09 11:40:44 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I woudl propose that we at least open the idea, or lay very basic framework for a tiered rotation to address previous content'
  710. [Sun Aug 09 11:41:14 2015] Trackanon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Isnt future expansions a secion 3 issue?'
  711. [Sun Aug 09 11:41:14 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'each expansion should have its own rotation yea, would even exclude the need for alt guilds to ever participate'
  712. [Sun Aug 09 11:41:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The wording can probably be amended to note the gatekeeper per tier'
  713. [Sun Aug 09 11:41:36 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Just adding the implication without going into the details may suffice for now?'
  714. [Sun Aug 09 11:41:49 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'fair enough Jain, that sounds perfect'
  715. [Sun Aug 09 11:43:03 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'another point I would like to make, is that some mobs are going to be significantly easier than others. IN the event a guild can kill 2/6 mobs on the rotation of current expansion, I don't think they even need to be listed for the mobs they can't kill, further complicating the rotation for those mobs.'
  716. [Sun Aug 09 11:43:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We can deal with those mobs when we get to Kunark, Ryan'
  717. [Sun Aug 09 11:43:54 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'establishing rules simply for classic atm.'
  718. [Sun Aug 09 11:45:54 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it still holds true for classic as well I think. We might be able to do gatekeeper, and naggy/Vox, btu not be able to kill CT and Inny. IN that event, it seems foolish for us to have a spot on the CT/Inny rotation that is essentially going to be wasted in this example'
  719. [Sun Aug 09 11:45:57 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Perhaps we could start with some discussion on the currently listed gatekeepers'
  720. [Sun Aug 09 11:48:21 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i move to amend question 1) as follows - 1) Who is on the current rotation? i) a current member, ii) anyone who has beaten a gatekeeper (defined below)?'
  721. [Sun Aug 09 11:52:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '. '
  722. [Sun Aug 09 11:52:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Somebody second that motion'
  723. [Sun Aug 09 11:52:38 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  724. [Sun Aug 09 11:53:13 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'First, define current member'
  725. [Sun Aug 09 11:53:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'A member is somebody who can vote. We defined that earlier.'
  726. [Sun Aug 09 11:53:45 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Those already on the current rotation '
  727. [Sun Aug 09 11:53:56 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what thalanos said'
  728. [Sun Aug 09 11:54:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, so..'
  729. [Sun Aug 09 11:54:21 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'then I motion we add a 3rd option to add bonlgon's definition'
  730. [Sun Aug 09 11:54:23 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i) = who can vote right now, ii) = who has beaten a gatekeeper (defined later, but presumably includes all current rotation guilds)'
  731. [Sun Aug 09 11:54:32 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think the point here is that we need to designate voting =/= being on rotation'
  732. [Sun Aug 09 11:54:48 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes Jain'
  733. [Sun Aug 09 11:54:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'This is not to exclude guilds from the rotation'
  734. [Sun Aug 09 11:54:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'This is to include guilds in voting'
  735. [Sun Aug 09 11:55:01 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Tempus shouldn't be on rotation, even though we have a vote on council'
  736. [Sun Aug 09 11:55:18 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Basically it is an onboarding platform'
  737. [Sun Aug 09 11:55:42 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that's not at all what the question is asking'
  738. [Sun Aug 09 11:55:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Guilds begin not on either, then they become voting council members, then they join the rotation'
  739. [Sun Aug 09 11:55:51 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the question is asking 'who is on the current rotation''
  740. [Sun Aug 09 11:55:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I may misunderstand then, this is what I was understanding'
  741. [Sun Aug 09 11:55:56 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right, but First's amended question is about who is on the CURRENT rotation, so I would think it would be the 5 guilds who are currently rotating, right?'
  742. [Sun Aug 09 11:56:06 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '<False prophecy> believes we should be on rotation'
  743. [Sun Aug 09 11:56:13 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i can change my motion to be 1) current member, ii) existing rotation members (Apok RoE, Rosen, TL, TLG), iii) who has killed a gatekeeper (defined below)'
  744. [Sun Aug 09 11:56:40 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what would hte difference between 2 and 3 be?'
  745. [Sun Aug 09 11:56:45 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I second first's updated motion'
  746. [Sun Aug 09 11:56:59 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the differenec would be if we change the gatekeeper today i think'
  747. [Sun Aug 09 11:57:07 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'to include other mobs that people have killed'
  748. [Sun Aug 09 11:57:20 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or FP who has killed inno but still didnt get added to the rotation'
  749. [Sun Aug 09 11:57:22 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 is the existing 5, 3 would leave room for us to add inny and/or SL/KoS/etc - and for past kills to be counted, ie, this would potentially add - (FP for inny, CAF for KoS) for example'
  750. [Sun Aug 09 11:57:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we can do that anyways bonlgon.'
  751. [Sun Aug 09 11:57:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Inny isn't/hasn't ever been a gatekeeper, Bon'
  752. [Sun Aug 09 11:57:50 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but we can remove #1, since guilds that haven't even killed gatekeepers aren't even under consideration for the current proposal right?'
  753. [Sun Aug 09 11:57:51 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This vote isn't really a permenent vote though? Only who's on it at this point, and if gatekeepers would change, numbers on rotation would change at that point effective immediate?'
  754. [Sun Aug 09 11:58:07 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think we all agree that the guilds on the current rotation have all killed each mob on the current rotation and said current gatekeepers'
  755. [Sun Aug 09 11:58:20 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It seems like maybe we need to vote on who the founding rotation members are, and then what it takes to join the rotation'
  756. [Sun Aug 09 11:58:38 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'None of this has to do with council'
  757. [Sun Aug 09 11:58:40 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree Jain'
  758. [Sun Aug 09 11:58:59 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'who's on it now, and then, how do others get on it'
  759. [Sun Aug 09 11:59:01 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Except to note that someone can be on council and not on rotation'
  760. [Sun Aug 09 11:59:06 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'AFK A SEC'
  761. [Sun Aug 09 11:59:07 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'perhaps the best way to do it is 1) who is on now, 2) defining gatekeepers later, 3) voting to add someone who has killed a new gatekeeper in the past'
  762. [Sun Aug 09 11:59:15 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Manvaril may vote for FP'
  763. [Sun Aug 09 11:59:51 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right, which is why I was saying remove #1 as a voting option. If you haven't killed a gatekeeper, you're not on rotation'
  764. [Sun Aug 09 12:00:06 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok, withdrawing and amending'
  765. [Sun Aug 09 12:00:53 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'For simplicity I'm going to strike the original motion, etc.'
  766. [Sun Aug 09 12:01:30 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i move to amend quesiton 1) Who is on the rotation? i) members of the rotation council, ii) guilds who have killed an existing gatekeper | further that item #8 (gatekeepers) have an agenda item added, c) Should we add guilds who have killed a new gatekeeper to the rotation immediately? i) yes, ii) no'
  767. [Sun Aug 09 12:03:43 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'shoudl we determine gatekeepers before deciding who is on rotation?'
  768. [Sun Aug 09 12:03:59 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no'
  769. [Sun Aug 09 12:04:07 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Can we just establish founding members right now, and if we want to add to that during this meeting later that's fine?'
  770. [Sun Aug 09 12:04:16 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thats sorta what i proposed =P'
  771. [Sun Aug 09 12:04:20 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that way if a change is made, and a guild is qualified, they can be added to the rotation as a matter of course'
  772. [Sun Aug 09 12:04:21 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, thank you jain'
  773. [Sun Aug 09 12:04:37 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i propsed that, just thats the formal motion'
  774. [Sun Aug 09 12:05:20 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'first part is establishing founding members, 2nd part moves later (when we discuss any new gatekeeprs) - adding a guild who is newly qualified by an old kill'
  775. [Sun Aug 09 12:05:44 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'new gatekeeper discussion is agenda item 8'
  776. [Sun Aug 09 12:05:48 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'okay lets do the first part then'
  777. [Sun Aug 09 12:06:02 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry my concern is working it "Who is on the rotation" in the present tense, when this document isn't a one point in time thing'
  778. [Sun Aug 09 12:06:02 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'founding members, what are the options'
  779. [Sun Aug 09 12:06:07 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Could we add anothing thing that was excluded from membership in the council? That being on the rotation would require 36 (or other number) actual human beings in the guild?'
  780. [Sun Aug 09 12:06:12 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I move that for the sake of this question, the Founding Members of the actual rotation be the 5 guilds currently on it, and when we discuss gatekeepers, we'll determine if anyone else should be added immediately'
  781. [Sun Aug 09 12:06:28 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think we should have point-in-time adding to the rotation not "is" on the rotation'
  782. [Sun Aug 09 12:06:31 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second what ryanilin said'
  783. [Sun Aug 09 12:06:34 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'with draw mine, second ryan's'
  784. [Sun Aug 09 12:07:11 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lol I second that, as I literally said that 15 minutes ago :/'
  785. [Sun Aug 09 12:07:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Patience guys, there are word warriors out there that will pick this apart. We're just trying to get it right.'
  786. [Sun Aug 09 12:08:01 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '^ that's why I want to be careful about this wording'
  787. [Sun Aug 09 12:08:48 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'For example we can add the 5 rotation guilds right now to the rotation, and then add others later during this meeting if we so choose, and right now or later decide how you get added after the meeting'
  788. [Sun Aug 09 12:09:10 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i agree jain, that sounds reasonable'
  789. [Sun Aug 09 12:09:18 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'makes sense'
  790. [Sun Aug 09 12:09:25 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that's exactly what I am proposing Jain'
  791. [Sun Aug 09 12:09:31 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'As secretary I am trying not to really make motions or anything, just throwing out perspective'
  792. [Sun Aug 09 12:09:42 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, what jain just said, seconded'
  793. [Sun Aug 09 12:09:52 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thalanos you want to use ryan's or re-use mine?'
  794. [Sun Aug 09 12:10:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Let's just keep it simple'
  795. [Sun Aug 09 12:10:16 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ryan's is fine'
  796. [Sun Aug 09 12:10:38 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Agreed. Again was just adding perspective/clarification'
  797. [Sun Aug 09 12:13:16 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Existing members of the rotation are the current 5 guilds Yes / No'
  798. [Sun Aug 09 12:13:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote'
  799. [Sun Aug 09 12:13:28 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  800. [Sun Aug 09 12:13:32 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  801. [Sun Aug 09 12:13:36 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <RoE>'
  802. [Sun Aug 09 12:13:47 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  803. [Sun Aug 09 12:13:50 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  804. [Sun Aug 09 12:13:53 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <False Prophecy>'
  805. [Sun Aug 09 12:13:59 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TLG>'
  806. [Sun Aug 09 12:14:03 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  807. [Sun Aug 09 12:14:04 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Canadian Armed Forces>'
  808. [Sun Aug 09 12:14:19 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes >Tempus>'
  809. [Sun Aug 09 12:14:25 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'abstain <Darkwind>'
  810. [Sun Aug 09 12:14:33 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10 yes, 1 abstain'
  811. [Sun Aug 09 12:15:18 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote to officially include the Existing members of the rotation are the current 5 guilds has passed'
  812. [Sun Aug 09 12:15:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Moving on'
  813. [Sun Aug 09 12:15:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Classic Rotation Rules:'
  814. [Sun Aug 09 12:16:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What base rotation should we use as a starting point. Emphasizing starting point.'
  815. [Sun Aug 09 12:16:21 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Options: 1) Use the current rotation as stickied on the public forums (A,B,C,D)'
  816. [Sun Aug 09 12:16:24 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Darkwind objects that there's no check for on the number of unique members (ie players) like previously proposed in membership for council for the rotation. The rotation is for the server's good, and 3-4 people boxing massive amounts of players doing the same content as 40-50 other real players we feel goes a bit against this rotation.'
  817. [Sun Aug 09 12:16:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '2) The rotation proposed at the last guild leader's meeting'
  818. [Sun Aug 09 12:17:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '3) You don't agree with either, and have a new rotation to present'
  819. [Sun Aug 09 12:17:35 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Darkwind's objected being entered into the minutes'
  820. [Sun Aug 09 12:17:40 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I assume 2 is the Timeslot proposal? '
  821. [Sun Aug 09 12:17:53 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes matthias'
  822. [Sun Aug 09 12:18:10 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thank you'
  823. [Sun Aug 09 12:19:12 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Any modifications or proposals to this vote?'
  824. [Sun Aug 09 12:19:30 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sec, checking'
  825. [Sun Aug 09 12:19:35 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Timeslot, mob spawning outside of that is left up until timeslot starts (even though a guild is free to engage before) and then they have X amount of hours to kill it in their timezone.'
  826. [Sun Aug 09 12:20:45 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If anyone is unfamiliar with either proposal please speak up now so we can direct you to postings of them'
  827. [Sun Aug 09 12:21:06 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'To summarize:'
  828. [Sun Aug 09 12:21:26 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'id like to amend choice ii) aka the time slot rotation and add - with the 1hr FFA lockout mechanic'
  829. [Sun Aug 09 12:21:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The timeslots proposal has two rotations in it. Primetime US and Primetime euro'
  830. [Sun Aug 09 12:21:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Each being 6 hours'
  831. [Sun Aug 09 12:22:00 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'could you please clarify waht the 1hr ffa lockout mechanic is please?'
  832. [Sun Aug 09 12:22:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The remaining 12 hours are an FFA period between midnight and noon.'
  833. [Sun Aug 09 12:22:11 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'a third option. Mob stays alive until your timeslot starts (you're free to kill before ofc), then you have X hours to kill it.'
  834. [Sun Aug 09 12:22:31 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'very much against removing every sort of FFA '
  835. [Sun Aug 09 12:22:33 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if it spawns outside, if it spawns during, you still have X hours.'
  836. [Sun Aug 09 12:22:42 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'during the 12hr FFA period, a guild getting a kill on a specific FFA mob, would then be locked out from engaging the next FFA mob of that type for - 1hr after spawn'
  837. [Sun Aug 09 12:22:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'First, this is approving the base rotation. The additional lockout amendments were meant to be discussed in #3'
  838. [Sun Aug 09 12:23:02 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok my bad, withdraw'
  839. [Sun Aug 09 12:23:28 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Zant that would be the 3rd option where a separate proposal other than the first 2 are introducted I believe, or would be an amendment to the second proposal later'
  840. [Sun Aug 09 12:23:38 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it's be a fresh new'
  841. [Sun Aug 09 12:23:44 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'OK just clarifying'
  842. [Sun Aug 09 12:23:56 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that sounds cool'
  843. [Sun Aug 09 12:24:17 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you define a timezone, if mob spawns outside of that, it's still yours, but you only have X hours when timezone to kill it before it either rotates or goes FFA'
  844. [Sun Aug 09 12:24:29 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'rotate or FFA to be discuss'
  845. [Sun Aug 09 12:25:05 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if it spawns in your timeslot, you still only have the X hours to kill it etc before rotated/FFA:ed'
  846. [Sun Aug 09 12:25:23 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we can make 1/4th spawns totally FFA if the thrill of the hunt is viable'
  847. [Sun Aug 09 12:25:33 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or 1/5th or any number'
  848. [Sun Aug 09 12:25:54 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so the question before us from Thanalos, is whether we would rather start with current rotation from eqforums, or move to the proposal on ragefireforums, without necessarily having to agree in whole to everything in either one, right?'
  849. [Sun Aug 09 12:26:09 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that way guilds get their FFA too, but guilds that dont have box armies or hundreds of members can actually kill stuff in their timezone.'
  850. [Sun Aug 09 12:26:19 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, exactly, Ryanilin'
  851. [Sun Aug 09 12:26:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Basically, Yes Ryan. '
  852. [Sun Aug 09 12:26:50 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I move we table specifics for this vote, and focus on which framework we'd like to use (keeping in mind this is for classic)'
  853. [Sun Aug 09 12:27:01 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so if we vote for example on using the updated proposal from the meeting a couple weeks ago, we'd still be able to address questions and/or issues with it?'
  854. [Sun Aug 09 12:27:20 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'at a later time today, or later meeting I mean, not as a part of this vote'
  855. [Sun Aug 09 12:27:34 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yea we can modify anything with a 2/3rd vote'
  856. [Sun Aug 09 12:27:41 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and its on an agenda item later to modify'
  857. [Sun Aug 09 12:27:44 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we can adjust either framework later'
  858. [Sun Aug 09 12:27:49 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lets just figure out what we want to use first'
  859. [Sun Aug 09 12:27:52 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We're picking a starting point, that's all'
  860. [Sun Aug 09 12:28:00 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, exactly'
  861. [Sun Aug 09 12:28:15 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ryan that's correct. right now we're deciding the baseline to use for modification going forward in this meeting'
  862. [Sun Aug 09 12:28:24 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'fair enough, I move we hodl that vote and then work toward hammering out the nuts and bolts after we know which one we migth be changing'
  863. [Sun Aug 09 12:30:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Discussion over: voting on: What base rotation schedule should we use as a starting point.'
  864. [Sun Aug 09 12:30:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '1) Use the current rotation that is sticked on the public forums as a starting point.'
  865. [Sun Aug 09 12:30:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '2) Use the rotation proposed at the last guild leader's meeting as a starting point.'
  866. [Sun Aug 09 12:31:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '3) I don't agree with either of these rotations, and I'd like to propose a new starting point.'
  867. [Sun Aug 09 12:31:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote'
  868. [Sun Aug 09 12:31:29 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Remnants of Prexus>'
  869. [Sun Aug 09 12:31:31 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Tempus>'
  870. [Sun Aug 09 12:31:39 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Ceaseless>'
  871. [Sun Aug 09 12:31:52 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 < Evening Reign >'
  872. [Sun Aug 09 12:31:56 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Darkwind>'
  873. [Sun Aug 09 12:32:11 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <False Prophecy>'
  874. [Sun Aug 09 12:32:21 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Canadian Armed Forces>'
  875. [Sun Aug 09 12:32:27 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, '2<RoE>'
  876. [Sun Aug 09 12:32:30 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <TLG>'
  877. [Sun Aug 09 12:32:54 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Twisted Legacy>'
  878. [Sun Aug 09 12:33:05 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 <Rosengard>'
  879. [Sun Aug 09 12:33:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10 votes for the one from the last meeting, 1 vote for a new proposal to be produced'
  880. [Sun Aug 09 12:34:04 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'for safe of everyone agreeing we can change to 2 and hammer out the details later'
  881. [Sun Aug 09 12:34:16 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote change will be recorded'
  882. [Sun Aug 09 12:34:28 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Unanimous, option 2'
  883. [Sun Aug 09 12:34:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote passed to use the rotation proposed at the last guild leader's meeting as a starting point for rotation rules.'
  884. [Sun Aug 09 12:35:39 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We have defined the basics, now let's talk a bit about the specifics. This is an open discussion period. First, please explain to us the concept of lockouts during the 12 hour FFA period'
  885. [Sun Aug 09 12:37:00 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sure'
  886. [Sun Aug 09 12:37:45 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as i understand the idea of the 1 hour lockout of an ffa perion kill, is to attempt to mitigate the possibility of any single guild from getting a majority of FFA kills. The hour period where the previous FFA kill guild would not be allowed to engage so another guild, if able, could give it a shot. As I understand the idea'
  887. [Sun Aug 09 12:37:46 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this is a tweak to the 12hr FFA period in the base document we just accepted, it is designed to let guilds between more casual time slot only guilds and the most competitive to have a shot at FFA mobs'
  888. [Sun Aug 09 12:38:26 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'basically, FFA mobs have a lockout, if TL killed a FFA Lady Vox, the next FFA Lady Vox we could not engage for 1hr after spawn'
  889. [Sun Aug 09 12:38:42 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that is how it was described to me as well'
  890. [Sun Aug 09 12:38:53 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'does anyone have an issue with this?'
  891. [Sun Aug 09 12:38:55 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'RoE or Rosen or Apok could show up (or hey, on a Saturday maybe a few others!) and not have to worry about us for 1hr '
  892. [Sun Aug 09 12:39:09 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I woudl like to make a proposed amendment'
  893. [Sun Aug 09 12:39:22 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sounds like a decent tweak. I think we can do abit more without hurting the challenge of it being FFA..'
  894. [Sun Aug 09 12:39:53 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Make it 2 hours on any FFA mob thats currently on the rotation after having killed one'
  895. [Sun Aug 09 12:40:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree with making 2 hours one of the voting options.'
  896. [Sun Aug 09 12:40:11 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'same plan with the caveat that if you get 2 FFA kills in a row, you are excluded from the 3rd mob. (Or 3in a row you don't get 4th)'
  897. [Sun Aug 09 12:40:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Point of discussion on that'
  898. [Sun Aug 09 12:40:44 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'There is the possibility that no other guild will be able to kill that mob'
  899. [Sun Aug 09 12:40:46 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yeah, 1 hour may still not be enough time for some to mobilize. 2 would be more fair I think.'
  900. [Sun Aug 09 12:40:51 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Then it will not be able to be killed indefinitely'
  901. [Sun Aug 09 12:41:08 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think 1 hour is more then enough time for 10 other guilds to get to a mob'
  902. [Sun Aug 09 12:41:11 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i would like to purpose a 1come with 36 man to a target gets 1st shot without 2 or 3 guilds engage at the same time dps racing?'
  903. [Sun Aug 09 12:41:17 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'perhaps amend the dps race brah of FFA too, first guild with said 36 planar characters in zone gets a 5 minute window to pull'
  904. [Sun Aug 09 12:41:25 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'especially since on ffa mobs, guilds can technically work together without penalty'
  905. [Sun Aug 09 12:41:33 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I dont feel 2 hours is fair to make a guild who is ready to kill it have to wait, 1 hour is more than fair and prevents a contested FFA mob from having to be DPS raced'
  906. [Sun Aug 09 12:42:10 2015] Mhadlovins tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the delay is only for a guild who obtained the kill in the previous FFA time slot'
  907. [Sun Aug 09 12:42:28 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Someone assist me, we are on 3a, correct?'
  908. [Sun Aug 09 12:42:39 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I understand that, but Jains point is valid, if no other guild is contesting, why should the guild who is have to wait 2 hours for no reason'
  909. [Sun Aug 09 12:42:47 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Its to exclude any 1 guild to monopolize all the FFA spawns. a hot topic for some guilds and just trying to meet those guilds halfway'
  910. [Sun Aug 09 12:42:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '3a, correct'
  911. [Sun Aug 09 12:43:00 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Thank you'
  912. [Sun Aug 09 12:43:05 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think the 3 hour windows is working fine, it allows a guild to get a second shot if if they wipe the first time'
  913. [Sun Aug 09 12:43:23 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Manvaril, we're talking about FFA mobs though'
  914. [Sun Aug 09 12:43:25 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we are talking about FFA mobs here tho'
  915. [Sun Aug 09 12:43:28 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'man - this is the point about lockouts on ffa kills'
  916. [Sun Aug 09 12:43:30 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that's for your rotation shot though not FFA'
  917. [Sun Aug 09 12:43:32 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not those you are up for in the current rotation'
  918. [Sun Aug 09 12:43:35 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'As an example, TL to my knowledge is the only guild on RF to have killed bees. If we weren't allowed to kill bees until another guild killed bees, and no other guild can kill bees, a lockout loop is created which is unhealthy'
  919. [Sun Aug 09 12:43:46 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry wasn't scrolled down far enough'
  920. [Sun Aug 09 12:44:00 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i fully agree with were your going jain'
  921. [Sun Aug 09 12:44:01 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'does anyone have an issue with the lockout being just 1 hour?'
  922. [Sun Aug 09 12:44:01 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree with jain '
  923. [Sun Aug 09 12:44:04 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'bees isn't on rotation though'
  924. [Sun Aug 09 12:44:07 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'a completely lockout is not healthy to anyone'
  925. [Sun Aug 09 12:44:16 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that was ane xample'
  926. [Sun Aug 09 12:44:17 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ryan - he just used them as an example :)'
  927. [Sun Aug 09 12:44:26 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but a lockout time before you are allowed to engage is different'
  928. [Sun Aug 09 12:44:33 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you will still be allowed to engage your mob after x amount of time '
  929. [Sun Aug 09 12:44:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm bringing it up to make sure we don't make a precedent we regret later'
  930. [Sun Aug 09 12:44:49 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I understand that, just trying to say, there are multiple guilds willing and capable of killing rotation mobs'
  931. [Sun Aug 09 12:45:13 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so 1h seems acceptable for Willing guilds to get the kill'
  932. [Sun Aug 09 12:45:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'is anybody against 1 hour during FFA period only?'
  933. [Sun Aug 09 12:45:36 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'my proposal was more about when one guild gets multiple FFA kills ina row'
  934. [Sun Aug 09 12:45:50 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'does it matter that much though?'
  935. [Sun Aug 09 12:46:01 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'more importantly, is anyone against it being 1 hour instead of 2 hours'
  936. [Sun Aug 09 12:46:06 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as i mentioned earlier the idea behind it is good but i think it needs abit more to reach around and work for everyone'
  937. [Sun Aug 09 12:46:09 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Still 1 hour regardless the amount of attemps would be irrelivent since so many guilds are capable of killing hte mobs'
  938. [Sun Aug 09 12:46:14 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'from my perspective, if smoeone is able to mobilize faster, even wait an hour to let others group together and kill, and they don't, how is that their fault'
  939. [Sun Aug 09 12:46:26 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'especially when 5 other guilds could each send 15 people, and get the kill if they wanted?'
  940. [Sun Aug 09 12:46:27 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'As jain said it does set a predecence to how we do things'
  941. [Sun Aug 09 12:46:36 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '1 hour to setup emperoro in ssra isnt much time'
  942. [Sun Aug 09 12:46:47 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'specially not if you have a guild at your heels stressing you'
  943. [Sun Aug 09 12:46:59 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the thing is - we have to deal with mobs now, and as expansions come up, we adjust to accommodate'
  944. [Sun Aug 09 12:47:05 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we are not talking kunark mobs at this time'
  945. [Sun Aug 09 12:47:06 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we cannot possibly plan for every boss in the future'
  946. [Sun Aug 09 12:47:19 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If this feels like a departure from the way we were handling things earlier, I just want to note that we have now begun discussion the rotation rules themselves, this is where predecents will be set'
  947. [Sun Aug 09 12:47:26 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Which can all be addres in a year when SoL is open we are talking classic atm still and anything disccused now can be ameneded then'
  948. [Sun Aug 09 12:47:30 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we could also add stipulations on contesting, to eliminate DPS races for things like that?'
  949. [Sun Aug 09 12:47:30 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'since we have rules in place to make changes easily, it's not a difficult point'
  950. [Sun Aug 09 12:47:38 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Fair enough, I just wanted it mentioned, that's all'
  951. [Sun Aug 09 12:47:52 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there is an interest in racing for mobs, and 1 hour works for the lockout. I'm asking fro consideration on a different yet connected addendum. If a guild gets let's say 3 FFA kills on a mob in a row, they are simply excluded from that mob during it's next FFA cycle'
  952. [Sun Aug 09 12:48:31 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if they get 3 ffa kill that means other guilds are just being Lazy'
  953. [Sun Aug 09 12:48:32 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'OK so to be clear you aren't speaking of any "wild wild west" FFA period on the server, this is specific to rotation FFA's'
  954. [Sun Aug 09 12:48:46 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'for me yes jain'
  955. [Sun Aug 09 12:48:51 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'correct, rotational FFA mobs'
  956. [Sun Aug 09 12:48:56 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'wil wild west is.. just that'
  957. [Sun Aug 09 12:49:01 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'guns blazing and all'
  958. [Sun Aug 09 12:49:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I believe what First was implying meant the wild wild west'
  959. [Sun Aug 09 12:49:14 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'oh, thought you were asking me, sorry'
  960. [Sun Aug 09 12:49:31 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we move on and vote please'
  961. [Sun Aug 09 12:50:09 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i make a motion to add a 1hr FFA lockout mechanic as discussed, yes/no'
  962. [Sun Aug 09 12:50:14 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We have kind of bounced around and it would help me if we retraced our steps a bit'
  963. [Sun Aug 09 12:50:21 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  964. [Sun Aug 09 12:50:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Or that ^ thanks'
  965. [Sun Aug 09 12:51:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Motion to vote to add a 1 Hr FFA lockout period during the 12 hour FFA period on the rotation has passed'
  966. [Sun Aug 09 12:51:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote Yes/No to add this 1 Hr FFA lockout period'
  967. [Sun Aug 09 12:51:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote'
  968. [Sun Aug 09 12:52:02 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  969. [Sun Aug 09 12:52:03 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes False prophecy'
  970. [Sun Aug 09 12:52:04 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <RoE>'
  971. [Sun Aug 09 12:52:04 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Canadian Armed Forces>'
  972. [Sun Aug 09 12:52:04 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  973. [Sun Aug 09 12:52:05 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  974. [Sun Aug 09 12:52:05 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  975. [Sun Aug 09 12:52:09 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  976. [Sun Aug 09 12:52:11 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Rosengard>'
  977. [Sun Aug 09 12:52:14 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Darkwind>'
  978. [Sun Aug 09 12:52:35 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <tlg>'
  979. [Sun Aug 09 12:52:49 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Unanimous, 1 hour FFA lockout passed'
  980. [Sun Aug 09 12:53:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, the vote to add the 1 Hour FFA lockout period during the 12 hour FFA window has passed.'
  981. [Sun Aug 09 12:53:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Next topic:'
  982. [Sun Aug 09 12:53:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Should guilds be allowed to participate in both primetime rotations, or only one? Discuss'
  983. [Sun Aug 09 12:54:21 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i don't see why not - otherwise, it's possible for either slot to be single guild only'
  984. [Sun Aug 09 12:54:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Meaning, should I be able to participate in the Euro primetime 6 hour window rotation, and the US primetime window, or should I have to pick one.'
  985. [Sun Aug 09 12:54:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'True. But it also frees up contention in one of the slots.'
  986. [Sun Aug 09 12:54:45 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i see no issue as long as there are slots available'
  987. [Sun Aug 09 12:55:19 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I feel the whole reason for this rotation was to make it fair for more casual guilds, as well as reward the more hardcore guilds'
  988. [Sun Aug 09 12:56:10 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think we should be allowed to participate in both slots, never know when a euro guild may be busy or not have enough people on to take something down'
  989. [Sun Aug 09 12:57:08 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'chances are if you can fill and raid in both slots, you're going to have a pretty decent chance of killing FFA anyway, so it really only serves to remove contention and cause less stress to everyone'
  990. [Sun Aug 09 12:59:54 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I move we change the wording to indicate simply multiple time slots, so if a change needs to be made in the future regarding the number of slots, or specific times, it can be done without changing the principle of what we are trying to accomplish'
  991. [Sun Aug 09 13:04:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We are currently discussing whether or not we would like to extend the prime time hours by 1 hour on both sides, (reducing the FFA period to 10 hours)'
  992. [Sun Aug 09 13:05:34 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so that would be 0900-1800, 1800-0100 EST. correct?'
  993. [Sun Aug 09 13:05:48 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'correct'
  994. [Sun Aug 09 13:05:48 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, '1100 not 0900'
  995. [Sun Aug 09 13:05:59 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes sorry 11 correct'
  996. [Sun Aug 09 13:07:50 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I dont think NA people would care if they had 1 extra hour at the end, but I guess it more matters if 1 extra hour earlier would make a difference for EU people'
  997. [Sun Aug 09 13:07:56 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think if an adjustment is made it shouldn't be to increase the primetime slot from 25&PCT; to a larger amount, if there is going to be an adjustment it would be to shift the slots forward perhaps 1 hour'
  998. [Sun Aug 09 13:08:17 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if the window remains 3 hours, it's not a problem, but if it would change...'
  999. [Sun Aug 09 13:08:25 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, '1 hour of FFA in the middle is a bad idea, i think'
  1000. [Sun Aug 09 13:08:47 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i can see jain's argument - especially since if a mob spawns at the end of a rotation slot, the 3 hour time to kill extends into the next slot (or ffa period for NA guilds)'
  1001. [Sun Aug 09 13:08:52 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Could someone in the EU give a rundown on workin hours, etc.?'
  1002. [Sun Aug 09 13:09:02 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I don't want to make this too personal about me, but I get off work at 6pm'
  1003. [Sun Aug 09 13:09:02 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but it already does that anyways?'
  1004. [Sun Aug 09 13:09:08 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'But not 6 PM EST'
  1005. [Sun Aug 09 13:09:12 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I get off at 8pm EST'
  1006. [Sun Aug 09 13:09:19 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the bridge between EU and NA is already there, nothing would change'
  1007. [Sun Aug 09 13:09:28 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'working ours would be 9 > 5~'
  1008. [Sun Aug 09 13:09:39 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm mostly trying to determine if this is an issue for other people, or if it is moot'
  1009. [Sun Aug 09 13:09:53 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, that's what i'm asking too :P'
  1010. [Sun Aug 09 13:10:00 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If it's 3 hours to engage from spawn on your rotation, darkwind has no issue with it being earlier one hour, if it's less though...'
  1011. [Sun Aug 09 13:10:11 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'all i think this does is take away more of the FFA time and if people are alright with that i dont see any "harm" in extending it 1 hour in each direction'
  1012. [Sun Aug 09 13:10:26 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, '^^'
  1013. [Sun Aug 09 13:10:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd rather shift than extend'
  1014. [Sun Aug 09 13:10:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I dont think that's what we're proposing jain'
  1015. [Sun Aug 09 13:10:56 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I dont understand the shift though'
  1016. [Sun Aug 09 13:11:04 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'shift would probably complicating things'
  1017. [Sun Aug 09 13:11:10 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what does shifting do? it would create an FFA period in the middle'
  1018. [Sun Aug 09 13:11:11 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Instead of 6 - 12 EST it becomes 7 - 1 EST'
  1019. [Sun Aug 09 13:11:20 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'How would it do that, both 6 hour slots shift'
  1020. [Sun Aug 09 13:11:25 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'extending one hour each direction (if 3h to engage) is workable eurotime.'
  1021. [Sun Aug 09 13:11:27 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm speaking of the entire thing, not just NA'
  1022. [Sun Aug 09 13:11:33 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so then you'd start the NA earlier?'
  1023. [Sun Aug 09 13:11:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Me?'
  1024. [Sun Aug 09 13:11:48 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If you mean 1 hour later than yes'
  1025. [Sun Aug 09 13:11:50 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'wouldn't that put PST guilds in even less time?'
  1026. [Sun Aug 09 13:11:59 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so there would be 2 hours of FFA in the middle?'
  1027. [Sun Aug 09 13:11:59 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'when the time reaches 6pm est we shut down so that wouldnt work for us'
  1028. [Sun Aug 09 13:12:08 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Where are you guys getting FFA in the middle ?'
  1029. [Sun Aug 09 13:12:09 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i think jain is suggesting it be 1-7 est for euros, and 7-1a est for na'
  1030. [Sun Aug 09 13:12:14 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yep'
  1031. [Sun Aug 09 13:12:18 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Thank you Marth'
  1032. [Sun Aug 09 13:12:20 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'past mid-night is generally bad'
  1033. [Sun Aug 09 13:12:27 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'instead of the current noon-6, 6-midnight that it is'
  1034. [Sun Aug 09 13:12:45 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, '(not saying i agree - just stating as i understood jains point)'
  1035. [Sun Aug 09 13:12:46 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we dont have 4 time zones to have members spread on, mostly focused on 2'
  1036. [Sun Aug 09 13:12:47 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its past midnight for 1 timezone...'
  1037. [Sun Aug 09 13:13:10 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'And at least Darkwind is mostly on one'
  1038. [Sun Aug 09 13:13:30 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it's a damned if you do, damned if y ou don't thing. because 6pm-midnight est for NA is 3pm-9pm pst'
  1039. [Sun Aug 09 13:13:38 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Correct Marth'
  1040. [Sun Aug 09 13:13:55 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'us being bigger than darkwind we naturally are spread over more euro times but i agree wtih him'
  1041. [Sun Aug 09 13:14:00 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what jain is suggesting, if it works for the euros, is to shift it by an hour - so 7p-1a est becomes 4p-10p pst'
  1042. [Sun Aug 09 13:14:02 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I would hate to live on the west coast with that, thankfully I'm mountain time but yes'
  1043. [Sun Aug 09 13:14:04 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'noon > 6pm est for euroes'
  1044. [Sun Aug 09 13:14:17 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I am just not familiar enough with Euro time zones to know how this affects things'
  1045. [Sun Aug 09 13:14:24 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'very badly'
  1046. [Sun Aug 09 13:14:25 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It'd be bad'
  1047. [Sun Aug 09 13:14:26 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'tbh'
  1048. [Sun Aug 09 13:14:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Like I don't know what time the average Portugal EQ player gets off work'
  1049. [Sun Aug 09 13:14:40 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'OK thank you, that is the info I wanted'
  1050. [Sun Aug 09 13:14:44 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '6 but he logs off at midnight (6pm est)'
  1051. [Sun Aug 09 13:14:48 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the last hour it'd be hard finding force unless weekend'
  1052. [Sun Aug 09 13:14:57 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'jain, the 6-12 already makes it 3pm-9pm for pst people'
  1053. [Sun Aug 09 13:15:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I imagined people in the far was of EU would have the same problem as farthest west NA, that they're at work for half the window'
  1054. [Sun Aug 09 13:15:20 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We dont have any russians ;)'
  1055. [Sun Aug 09 13:15:27 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'West, not eat'
  1056. [Sun Aug 09 13:15:31 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'east'
  1057. [Sun Aug 09 13:15:45 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'noon est is 5pm gmt, correct?'
  1058. [Sun Aug 09 13:15:51 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thoughts - leave euro the same, NA extends 1hr (it has the bulk of players anyways) but you only get until 3am at the latest'
  1059. [Sun Aug 09 13:15:52 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'brits are 5h away from EST, so a totally brittish guild might be better for that'
  1060. [Sun Aug 09 13:15:58 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so noon-6 est would be 5-11 gmt for the euros'
  1061. [Sun Aug 09 13:15:58 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the far west of europe is on Cet (same as me denmark)... the UK is on cet -1.. and over in ruski land they are on something like 3-4 hours ahead'
  1062. [Sun Aug 09 13:16:02 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry maybe I'm confused, is everyone in EU playing in the same time zone ?'
  1063. [Sun Aug 09 13:16:17 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so for bon it would be 6-midnight for him'
  1064. [Sun Aug 09 13:16:21 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  1065. [Sun Aug 09 13:16:22 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no jain'
  1066. [Sun Aug 09 13:16:45 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'OK just pulled up a map'
  1067. [Sun Aug 09 13:16:50 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Damn it looks like you pretty much are hehe'
  1068. [Sun Aug 09 13:16:58 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Discussion withdrawn :p'
  1069. [Sun Aug 09 13:16:58 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'am gets pretty late for EST guilds as well'
  1070. [Sun Aug 09 13:17:04 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and no.. my guild is split between 2 or 3 with GMT being the primary one (6 hours ahead of est)'
  1071. [Sun Aug 09 13:18:33 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'motion to vote on the following tweak - extend north american slot (slot b i think) to 1am eastern, limit maximum window extension to 3am eastern'
  1072. [Sun Aug 09 13:19:13 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second'
  1073. [Sun Aug 09 13:19:40 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'window extension btw, is referring to the 3hr to kill rule, if a mob spawns after midnight, your time to kill gradually decreases from 3hrs to 2hrs (1am spawn)'
  1074. [Sun Aug 09 13:20:01 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second that'
  1075. [Sun Aug 09 13:21:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok'
  1076. [Sun Aug 09 13:22:18 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote on the floor to Tweak/Extend the north american slot (b) to 1am EST, limiting maximum window extension to 3am'
  1077. [Sun Aug 09 13:22:26 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes no/ vote'
  1078. [Sun Aug 09 13:22:29 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I do not believe we voted on whether a guild could sign up for both btw'
  1079. [Sun Aug 09 13:22:46 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as per last week, guilds already can'
  1080. [Sun Aug 09 13:22:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It was a unanimous yes, but i will host the vote for compleness'
  1081. [Sun Aug 09 13:22:53 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'unless we want to vote to change it'
  1082. [Sun Aug 09 13:22:54 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we have not, lets do it next?'
  1083. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote on the floor to Tweak/Extend the north american slot (b) to 1am EST, limiting maximum window extension to 3am'
  1084. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:07 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that was part of the original outline'
  1085. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  1086. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:17 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  1087. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:25 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <False prophecy"'
  1088. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:29 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Ceaseless>'
  1089. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:31 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  1090. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:32 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1091. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:35 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Tempus>'
  1092. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:41 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Reign of Eternity>'
  1093. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:47 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Canadian Armed Forces>'
  1094. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:51 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Darkwind>'
  1095. [Sun Aug 09 13:23:52 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <tlg>'
  1096. [Sun Aug 09 13:24:35 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  1097. [Sun Aug 09 13:24:53 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '11 yes, unanimous vote'
  1098. [Sun Aug 09 13:24:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Compromise, and unanimous votes. This is good to see guys.'
  1099. [Sun Aug 09 13:25:08 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Leche <CAF> stepping away'
  1100. [Sun Aug 09 13:25:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote passed to tweak/extend the north american slot (b) to 1am, limiting maximum window extension to 3am'
  1101. [Sun Aug 09 13:25:47 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'would just like to add depending on how it all turns out that we have the possiblity of adding an extra hour to the euro window aswell'
  1102. [Sun Aug 09 13:26:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote on the floor: Can a guild participate in both the primetime Euro rotation and the primetime US rotation? Yes/No'
  1103. [Sun Aug 09 13:26:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote Now'
  1104. [Sun Aug 09 13:26:52 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  1105. [Sun Aug 09 13:26:55 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  1106. [Sun Aug 09 13:26:56 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1107. [Sun Aug 09 13:27:07 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1108. [Sun Aug 09 13:27:12 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <TLG>'
  1109. [Sun Aug 09 13:27:18 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes FP'
  1110. [Sun Aug 09 13:27:22 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <RoE>'
  1111. [Sun Aug 09 13:27:24 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  1112. [Sun Aug 09 13:27:29 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i have a thing to add to that before hte vote is passed'
  1113. [Sun Aug 09 13:27:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Go ahead'
  1114. [Sun Aug 09 13:28:15 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I can sign my guild up to hitting both US and Euro time slots... but i know we wont be hitting most of my US targets but still want the possiblity to do so during weekend '
  1115. [Sun Aug 09 13:28:23 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or maybe vacation time or something similar'
  1116. [Sun Aug 09 13:28:44 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we need some sort of system to determine if a guild is "worthy" of being on both time slots and not just taking up spots'
  1117. [Sun Aug 09 13:28:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree.'
  1118. [Sun Aug 09 13:29:20 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'an example would be RoE.. they will sign up for both.. but as weve seen they struggle to kill the mobs in the late/early hours outside there primetime..'
  1119. [Sun Aug 09 13:29:23 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'abstain <Darkwind>'
  1120. [Sun Aug 09 13:29:31 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think that makes for a whole otehr conversation becuase there's a lot to be worked out on those issues Bon'
  1121. [Sun Aug 09 13:29:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think the vote is on hold for discussion Birk'
  1122. [Sun Aug 09 13:29:38 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i would like some failsafe for guilds signing up for things they cannot kill'
  1123. [Sun Aug 09 13:31:08 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think if they don't have the numbers they should be able to shop around and find someone on the rotation that does have the members online and ready to take it trade or give it to'
  1124. [Sun Aug 09 13:31:32 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'which is fine'
  1125. [Sun Aug 09 13:31:47 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but would they be allowed to do that after attempting? or after waiting until it spawns?'
  1126. [Sun Aug 09 13:31:56 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'think that lends to abuse and tribute in the end tho manv'
  1127. [Sun Aug 09 13:32:00 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ideally if you are signing up for a time slot, its a time when you are best able to field the numbers you need (for ceaseless this is monday and thurs currently)'
  1128. [Sun Aug 09 13:32:10 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the rule is, you have to give 2 hours notice'
  1129. [Sun Aug 09 13:32:14 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think this is covered, or at least pointed out, in the part about voting on inactivity'
  1130. [Sun Aug 09 13:32:18 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you fail to give 2 hours notice, it's considered your mob'
  1131. [Sun Aug 09 13:32:40 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you fail to kill said mob twice, you're out of the rotation'
  1132. [Sun Aug 09 13:32:40 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'coudl everyone declare a main slot, and then if they choose to sign up for the other one, and fail to kill their allotted mobs for x number of times, they are removed from that time slot?'
  1133. [Sun Aug 09 13:32:59 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that would work for me ryan'
  1134. [Sun Aug 09 13:33:20 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it's not worth it for a guild who can't field members in both slots to join both, because they would have to do way more work and give notice every single time'
  1135. [Sun Aug 09 13:33:26 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'combined wtih a lockout timer before they could join both timeslots again'
  1136. [Sun Aug 09 13:33:26 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that would work for us as well Ryan'
  1137. [Sun Aug 09 13:33:58 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Darkwind would like to leave an objection on multiple timezone signups. We're not ok with it not affecting your other timezone (ie puts you last) if you kill in an alternative timezone.'
  1138. [Sun Aug 09 13:34:21 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I lean towards discussing and voting on this after we have seen how the system plays out'
  1139. [Sun Aug 09 13:34:28 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'This has a lot of moving pieces'
  1140. [Sun Aug 09 13:34:36 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, we'd like the objection to be there'
  1141. [Sun Aug 09 13:35:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Zant can you hang onto this objection until we decide if this vote finishes'
  1142. [Sun Aug 09 13:35:38 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If I dont have to re-write it, sure'
  1143. [Sun Aug 09 13:35:54 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so Jain, are you saying we shoudl not continue with the vote on joining multiple slots until a later time?'
  1144. [Sun Aug 09 13:36:07 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Shift, or just point it out to me, or I'll try to remember'
  1145. [Sun Aug 09 13:36:12 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm not sure'
  1146. [Sun Aug 09 13:36:25 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or suggesting rather I guess'
  1147. [Sun Aug 09 13:36:39 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm saying that this could play out different ways and I kind of feel like gathering some data from a couple weeks of rotating without these details may help us make a more informed decision'
  1148. [Sun Aug 09 13:37:13 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, we've been discussing THE rotation though, this is TWO rotations. ;/'
  1149. [Sun Aug 09 13:37:45 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its 1 rotation diveded into 2 different time zones'
  1150. [Sun Aug 09 13:37:47 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'still 1 rotation'
  1151. [Sun Aug 09 13:38:13 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'bon, time slots'
  1152. [Sun Aug 09 13:38:14 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'actual rotations are fully independent, working by the same premises though'
  1153. [Sun Aug 09 13:38:19 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'using timezones can be confusing'
  1154. [Sun Aug 09 13:38:29 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry time slots'
  1155. [Sun Aug 09 13:39:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Since Bon is the Member that brought it to us, we will let him decide. Should we table this topic until we've had a chance to try the rotation for a few weeks, or do we need to vote on adding lockout mechanisms now?'
  1156. [Sun Aug 09 13:39:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Could First give us some examples of a few different ways this can play out?'
  1157. [Sun Aug 09 13:40:33 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we see it on a spreadsheet with a couple examples? I can't really absorb it right now just reading it in chat'
  1158. [Sun Aug 09 13:40:44 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i would like a vote on what ryanilin proposed'
  1159. [Sun Aug 09 13:41:18 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I move we table this discussion to be discussed later with a spreadsheet of what a sample rotation might look like '
  1160. [Sun Aug 09 13:41:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok. What do you think is acceptable criteria for removal of the secondary rotation. Two failed attempts in one r otation period?'
  1161. [Sun Aug 09 13:41:55 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  1162. [Sun Aug 09 13:42:00 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that would work yes'
  1163. [Sun Aug 09 13:42:00 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second ryan'
  1164. [Sun Aug 09 13:42:02 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hard to define rotation period, you should just do a rolling basis'
  1165. [Sun Aug 09 13:42:13 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Hello my friends. i am here you can begin'
  1166. [Sun Aug 09 13:42:17 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, '$$'
  1167. [Sun Aug 09 13:42:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Trying to vote on what ryan proposed but we need specifics'
  1168. [Sun Aug 09 13:42:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Saytonic added to the roll'
  1169. [Sun Aug 09 13:42:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Welcome, CaF'
  1170. [Sun Aug 09 13:42:45 2015] Jain -> Drillisen: rotationcouncil:classic
  1171. [Sun Aug 09 13:42:52 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Saytonic _CAF leader'
  1172. [Sun Aug 09 13:43:06 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think all we're after is, a way to remove people who are signing up in other time slots who can't actively kill mobs in said timeslots'
  1173. [Sun Aug 09 13:43:08 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'my proposal is to hold off on this part of the discussion for now actually Thal'
  1174. [Sun Aug 09 13:43:11 2015] Channel RotationCouncil(24) members:
  1175. [Sun Aug 09 13:43:26 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we can move on with the voting. I just wanted to voice my concern and keep it open for discussion'
  1176. [Sun Aug 09 13:43:27 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Drillisen added to the roll'
  1177. [Sun Aug 09 13:43:35 2015] Drillisen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'nod, hey'
  1178. [Sun Aug 09 13:43:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Bon is asking we figure it out.'
  1179. [Sun Aug 09 13:43:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok'
  1180. [Sun Aug 09 13:43:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Jain, can we note Bons concern?'
  1181. [Sun Aug 09 13:43:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Am I striking the unconcluded vote from the minutes?'
  1182. [Sun Aug 09 13:44:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, I believe so, but let me verify who all voted'
  1183. [Sun Aug 09 13:44:16 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I have Bon's concern noted and was pending Zant's concern on the vote'
  1184. [Sun Aug 09 13:44:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, looks like everyone else voted unanimously'
  1185. [Sun Aug 09 13:45:02 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'DW abstained and objected'
  1186. [Sun Aug 09 13:45:14 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'motion to redo the last vote'
  1187. [Sun Aug 09 13:45:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We have agreed that guilds can participate in both rotations currently. (with bon's stipulation that he would like to discuss this later)'
  1188. [Sun Aug 09 13:46:12 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I have 8 votes for and 3 abstain?'
  1189. [Sun Aug 09 13:46:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'looks correct'
  1190. [Sun Aug 09 13:46:54 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'apologies what is this vote inr egards to? perhaps i joined a few moments too late'
  1191. [Sun Aug 09 13:47:03 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'May I ask a point for clarification? Two conversations going on'
  1192. [Sun Aug 09 13:47:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sure'
  1193. [Sun Aug 09 13:48:00 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you are in both time slots, and you kill Vox during your slot, whichever it would be, do you go to the bottom of the rotation on Vox? SO no matter where it spawned if not FFA, you woudl not be up until it was again your turn in the rotation'
  1194. [Sun Aug 09 13:48:25 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'FFA is not currently on what I've said, just the timeslots'
  1195. [Sun Aug 09 13:48:29 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i was under the impression that any boss that spawned during your time slot was yours? did that change?'
  1196. [Sun Aug 09 13:48:39 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right, I was just adding that in there to avoid confusion'
  1197. [Sun Aug 09 13:49:28 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but if you're up for Vox (euro) and CT (NA) and Vox (NA), and you kill Vox euro, you'd be put last on NA Vox, but still be up for NA CT'
  1198. [Sun Aug 09 13:49:45 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and last for euro vox, naturally, having killed'
  1199. [Sun Aug 09 13:50:05 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lookign to hire CaF hr rep this shit is confusing'
  1200. [Sun Aug 09 13:50:27 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok, here's my confusion. Do time slots matter in relation to your place in the rotation? Or only when you are elegible to engage the mob. '
  1201. [Sun Aug 09 13:50:44 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no relation to place in rotation'
  1202. [Sun Aug 09 13:51:18 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'one rotation, with all guilds rotating amongst the 4 mobs currently on it. Time slots are only a means by whcih you secure your ability to have a shot at it without it going FFA'
  1203. [Sun Aug 09 13:51:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, I believe we can move on now.'
  1204. [Sun Aug 09 13:51:38 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i think if your in both time slots - when you kill in one slot you get reset to the bottom of the list for that mob on both slots'
  1205. [Sun Aug 09 13:51:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Next topic: Time to Kill Targets'
  1206. [Sun Aug 09 13:52:16 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'question: have you all agreed rotation is the way to go?'
  1207. [Sun Aug 09 13:52:21 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'How long should a guild in a rotation have to kill targets before they go FFA? '
  1208. [Sun Aug 09 13:52:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We have agreed on a rotation, Saytonic, yes'
  1209. [Sun Aug 09 13:53:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'How long should a guild in a rotation have to kill targets before they go FFA? '
  1210. [Sun Aug 09 13:53:00 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sigh ok'
  1211. [Sun Aug 09 13:53:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '1)1 Hour, 2)2 Hour, 3)3 Hours'
  1212. [Sun Aug 09 13:53:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  1213. [Sun Aug 09 13:53:45 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '3. FP'
  1214. [Sun Aug 09 13:53:47 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <RoE>'
  1215. [Sun Aug 09 13:53:51 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 < Evening Reign >'
  1216. [Sun Aug 09 13:53:51 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '3hrs <Twisted Legacy>'
  1217. [Sun Aug 09 13:53:54 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Ceaseless>'
  1218. [Sun Aug 09 13:53:57 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 Tempus'
  1219. [Sun Aug 09 13:54:16 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, '1'
  1220. [Sun Aug 09 13:54:20 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Darkwind>'
  1221. [Sun Aug 09 13:54:21 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <TLG>'
  1222. [Sun Aug 09 13:54:35 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Rosengard>'
  1223. [Sun Aug 09 13:54:37 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 <Remnants of Prexus>'
  1224. [Sun Aug 09 13:55:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '1 vote for 1 hour, 10 votes for 3 hours'
  1225. [Sun Aug 09 13:55:17 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i also wear 1 black and 1white sock ijs'
  1226. [Sun Aug 09 13:55:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote passes to have the time to kill targets set at 3 hours before they go FFA'
  1227. [Sun Aug 09 13:56:06 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'wait'
  1228. [Sun Aug 09 13:56:17 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'just a clarification'
  1229. [Sun Aug 09 13:56:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'waiting'
  1230. [Sun Aug 09 13:56:38 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'they only go FFA if the 3hrs falls outside of a primetime, if its inside of a primetime, the next guild is up and has 3hrs'
  1231. [Sun Aug 09 13:57:02 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'correct!'
  1232. [Sun Aug 09 13:57:13 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yup'
  1233. [Sun Aug 09 13:57:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yeah. Thanks for clarifying for us.'
  1234. [Sun Aug 09 13:57:18 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Any objection before I note that clarification in the minutes?'
  1235. [Sun Aug 09 13:57:19 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we have removed all FFA from primetimes'
  1236. [Sun Aug 09 13:57:26 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'just wanted to be clear =P'
  1237. [Sun Aug 09 13:57:41 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this counts as a "kill", ie you'll be moved last to rotation if you fail?'
  1238. [Sun Aug 09 13:57:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Which we will have to discuss when we get to gatekeepers, because that could be a problem'
  1239. [Sun Aug 09 13:58:13 2015] Drillisen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You should be moved to the back if you fail to kill your target in the correct slot, absolutely'
  1240. [Sun Aug 09 13:58:18 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, faling to kill in 3hrs = moved to bottom'
  1241. [Sun Aug 09 13:58:21 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I believe it counts as an "attempt" whether you show up or not'
  1242. [Sun Aug 09 13:58:25 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'drillisen = TL officer'
  1243. [Sun Aug 09 13:58:31 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'aight, sounds good.'
  1244. [Sun Aug 09 13:59:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Next topic: Trading spots in rotation'
  1245. [Sun Aug 09 13:59:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Should guilds be able to trade spots in the rotation. Options proposed: No, if they cant kill it during their window, they have to pass. or 2) Yes, they can trade the rotation as l ong as its documented on the official spreadsheet.'
  1246. [Sun Aug 09 13:59:58 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'notice: Marthisdil will be now voting for Remnants of Prexus'
  1247. [Sun Aug 09 13:59:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Discuss amendments to options, or proceed with vote'
  1248. [Sun Aug 09 14:00:03 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Marthisdil will be taking over voting for <Remants of Prexis>'
  1249. [Sun Aug 09 14:00:06 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'how many times can you trade a spot in a row?'
  1250. [Sun Aug 09 14:00:18 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'because if you can back off a specific mob now'
  1251. [Sun Aug 09 14:00:20 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'prexus'
  1252. [Sun Aug 09 14:00:21 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'wow'
  1253. [Sun Aug 09 14:00:24 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no i dont think guild should be able to trade spots in teh rotation'
  1254. [Sun Aug 09 14:00:24 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'then we can remove trading at all'
  1255. [Sun Aug 09 14:00:26 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'motion to vote'
  1256. [Sun Aug 09 14:00:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'You can't at all if this vote fails :p'
  1257. [Sun Aug 09 14:00:52 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'with primetime raiding slots you get ot have your kills in your primetime'
  1258. [Sun Aug 09 14:00:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hold on guys'
  1259. [Sun Aug 09 14:01:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Trading can serve a legit purpose'
  1260. [Sun Aug 09 14:01:06 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you can skip being on the rotation for a specific mob, tradiing should be off, passing should be viable though.'
  1261. [Sun Aug 09 14:01:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If a guild only raids on certain nights, they are able to trade with other scheduled raiders'
  1262. [Sun Aug 09 14:01:28 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'depending on where things land on trades vs. removals, guilds that have no interest in raiding every day are always going to be left out'
  1263. [Sun Aug 09 14:01:52 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that's a viable thing, but in that case we'd need to vote on guild XXX having all thursday spawns or not'
  1264. [Sun Aug 09 14:01:57 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Did not consider that aspect'
  1265. [Sun Aug 09 14:02:03 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'exactly what I was talking about Thalanos'
  1266. [Sun Aug 09 14:02:18 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its a good point, but how in the world do you manage it without going insane?'
  1267. [Sun Aug 09 14:02:19 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I propose a change to answer 2, 2) Yes they can trade as long as it's documented in the spreadsheet and the trade is not for gain'
  1268. [Sun Aug 09 14:02:34 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no, that's up to the guild who only wants to raid on thursday. If there is nothing up, they aren't raiding'
  1269. [Sun Aug 09 14:02:35 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'let me rephrase. This will be in regards to the guilds that sign up to 2 timeslots.. They will need to pick one being primetime where they are alloewd to trade wtih other guilds. The secondary timeslot will be off limits to trading'
  1270. [Sun Aug 09 14:02:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '"for gain" really vague'
  1271. [Sun Aug 09 14:03:09 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and ofcourse all guilds can trade in there primetime if they wish to do so'
  1272. [Sun Aug 09 14:03:13 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I would rather not have trading on in-era content'
  1273. [Sun Aug 09 14:03:14 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Be better just to pass, or to have a vote for having mobs on a specific day and all other days being rotated.'
  1274. [Sun Aug 09 14:03:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'When there is back-era content, that's different'
  1275. [Sun Aug 09 14:03:37 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'trading doesnt make a diff to me aslong as both guilds are in agreeance. The only thing i care that needs to be clearly stated is no trading raid targets to a guild NOT* on the current rotation'
  1276. [Sun Aug 09 14:03:50 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'for obvious reasons,'
  1277. [Sun Aug 09 14:03:50 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you dont want to raid every day, there shouln't be a penalty with passing'
  1278. [Sun Aug 09 14:04:00 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Saytonic brings up a good point if trading passes a vote'
  1279. [Sun Aug 09 14:04:06 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but passing is so much eaiser and less fuss about than trading'
  1280. [Sun Aug 09 14:04:13 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd be fine with not doing it early on, but I think once we hit the halfway point for an expansion, there shoudl be a mechanism in place to be able to trade to suit a schdule of a capable guild that just doesn't want to raid that much'
  1281. [Sun Aug 09 14:04:14 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'zan except you may never see a mob'
  1282. [Sun Aug 09 14:04:26 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'There is 1 problme wtih that jain tho'
  1283. [Sun Aug 09 14:04:35 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'again guilds who dosnt want to raid every day gets screwed '
  1284. [Sun Aug 09 14:04:41 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you can only raid one day, you'd probably have to redo the rotation to suit you'
  1285. [Sun Aug 09 14:04:47 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'they might not see a target for weeks if it dosnt spawn on tuesdays'
  1286. [Sun Aug 09 14:05:05 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what if we said no trading, just that you can pass for up to 3 days (at which point youre back in your normal spot), you just sorta lock at the top until you get a kill, then go back to normal spot'
  1287. [Sun Aug 09 14:05:08 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'current spawn is like virtually one pop every or every other day, no?'
  1288. [Sun Aug 09 14:05:25 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds better first'
  1289. [Sun Aug 09 14:05:34 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds like a solution'
  1290. [Sun Aug 09 14:05:47 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'better have some notice too'
  1291. [Sun Aug 09 14:05:50 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Will this be easy/simple to track'
  1292. [Sun Aug 09 14:05:56 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can anyone poke holes in it?'
  1293. [Sun Aug 09 14:06:03 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'needs notice but looks like a good compromise'
  1294. [Sun Aug 09 14:06:04 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'guilds can put down which days they raid in advance to joining the rotation'
  1295. [Sun Aug 09 14:06:06 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'prolly not jain'
  1296. [Sun Aug 09 14:06:24 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It can be abused, but it's limited as the way the rotation looks will change every time it's invoked'
  1297. [Sun Aug 09 14:06:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think that idea is fair. Who is responsible for tracking the lock at the top?'
  1298. [Sun Aug 09 14:06:30 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'First could you please type out the entire proposal please?'
  1299. [Sun Aug 09 14:06:34 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I don't think that's the case at all Zant. If I work with RoE or TL to trade a mob, I would simply ask that we get their mob on a night when we were planning to raid. This of course still makes a difference as to whethere anything even spawns in a slot we are going to be able to raid or not'
  1300. [Sun Aug 09 14:07:09 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'id suggest perhaps, nulling trading all together. if a target spawns under your day, and you cant kill it, well so be it. thats the game mechanics. it shoudl than fall to the next guild in the rotation after 3hr mark .'
  1301. [Sun Aug 09 14:07:11 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I don't like the complexity of it. I think the time slots give you an opportunity to hit targets and if you aren't raiding on the day your target spawns, give it another try next week. It overcomplicates the spreadsheet and creates a lot of work for the rest of the guilds on the rotation.'
  1302. [Sun Aug 09 14:07:34 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed with saytonic'
  1303. [Sun Aug 09 14:07:35 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well, hardcore raiders will get more out of the current rotation regardless of how it's tuned, preventing trading (and being able to exempt yourself from a mob) simply makes the abuses easier to stop'
  1304. [Sun Aug 09 14:08:02 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'passing should be fine, it helps other guilds get the pixels down faster'
  1305. [Sun Aug 09 14:08:15 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed, keeps it moving'
  1306. [Sun Aug 09 14:08:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We're agreeing to allow some guilds permanent passes on certain days then?'
  1307. [Sun Aug 09 14:08:42 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'What is the difference between passing and not-trading?'
  1308. [Sun Aug 09 14:08:50 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'non'
  1309. [Sun Aug 09 14:08:54 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You can't choose who you trade with'
  1310. [Sun Aug 09 14:08:54 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please don't mistake what I am saying for wanting anything handed to us. I'm simply saying, that given the timeslots, and the fact that even if you could raid every day you might not get mobs, there's a benefit to being able to trade, espcially if there's another guild that raids wed and you raid thursday'
  1311. [Sun Aug 09 14:09:02 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'next guild in rotation is up, not whoever you want'
  1312. [Sun Aug 09 14:09:10 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed zantosa'
  1313. [Sun Aug 09 14:09:14 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Understood thank you'
  1314. [Sun Aug 09 14:09:20 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no favourtism, etc'
  1315. [Sun Aug 09 14:09:34 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I ask that what we settle on be easy to track'
  1316. [Sun Aug 09 14:09:38 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'however, if there is another guild who is willing to say that if whatever mob spawns in their time slot on a day when you do raid, you ahve the ability to both win'
  1317. [Sun Aug 09 14:09:40 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'passing and trading should be allowed but only to people on the rotation'
  1318. [Sun Aug 09 14:09:57 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Not the kind of thing where we have 9 guilds on rotation, 4 of them have 1 asterisk by their name and 2 more have 2 asterisks'
  1319. [Sun Aug 09 14:10:28 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Passing should be fine (even auto-passing if you exclude from being rotated on that mob because you dont want or can't kill it)'
  1320. [Sun Aug 09 14:10:38 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'That is to say, you can either pass or not and I don't really want to have to tally how many times you have left before there is a penalty'
  1321. [Sun Aug 09 14:10:46 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The logs will indicate how many passes there were'
  1322. [Sun Aug 09 14:10:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'And we can make decisions/vote on abuse down the road'
  1323. [Sun Aug 09 14:11:03 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'passing should have limits though, im sorry, but i dont want to never see a raid mob on saturday or sunday or friday night because of people passing, we all have members that want to see raid mobs at certain times'
  1324. [Sun Aug 09 14:11:35 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'just as i dont want to never see a US primetime raid mob because theres only 2 guilds killing euro mobs'
  1325. [Sun Aug 09 14:11:57 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well, first pass is free, second pass puts you in the back of the rotation?'
  1326. [Sun Aug 09 14:12:10 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'then until you kill it, you just rotate to the back'
  1327. [Sun Aug 09 14:13:32 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Well'
  1328. [Sun Aug 09 14:13:38 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'tryign to think of how to explain this nicely, basicly, I dont feel there should be any penalty to any guild who passes, doesnt kill a mob, etc anything along those lines. If you are on the rotation, and dont kill your mob when youre up, its your loss?'
  1329. [Sun Aug 09 14:13:41 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The rotation typically has an order'
  1330. [Sun Aug 09 14:13:48 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If you drop to the back it messes with a lot'
  1331. [Sun Aug 09 14:13:52 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if the following guild is willign to wake up at 3am to kill it, well, they deserve it imo'
  1332. [Sun Aug 09 14:14:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Unless you just mean it's like a fail'
  1333. [Sun Aug 09 14:14:04 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'droping to hte back is like killing it though'
  1334. [Sun Aug 09 14:14:07 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'OK'
  1335. [Sun Aug 09 14:14:08 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yep'
  1336. [Sun Aug 09 14:14:20 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you can pass once, then get rotated to the back'
  1337. [Sun Aug 09 14:14:27 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you pass again'
  1338. [Sun Aug 09 14:14:29 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I"m not saying you shouldn't drop if you pass though'
  1339. [Sun Aug 09 14:14:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Then I would say just have unlimited passing, and then all this really does is let another guild try it 3 hrs (or 1 slot) earlier'
  1340. [Sun Aug 09 14:14:34 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the problem is like stated chain passing'
  1341. [Sun Aug 09 14:14:51 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'oh its tuesday, what if 5 guilds pass?'
  1342. [Sun Aug 09 14:14:55 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but there you can add more FFA, if two or three guilds pass in advance, that spawn will be FFA'
  1343. [Sun Aug 09 14:14:59 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thats a mess'
  1344. [Sun Aug 09 14:15:24 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or just do'
  1345. [Sun Aug 09 14:15:31 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'entire purpose of primetime slots and the concessions made is to remove all FFA from them so that primetime casual guilds can see all the mobs that spawn in their primetime'
  1346. [Sun Aug 09 14:15:31 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I am saying that with trades enabled, I can have a much higher probability of having mobs up on nights when we raid, without having to raid every day. The other guild gets our kill, we get theirs. It really doesn't alter all that much except that poeple are able to kill mobs'
  1347. [Sun Aug 09 14:15:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'But we've just created a rotation for primetime raiders that will inherintly pass on several days a week. We can't punish them for passing when they don't raid those days.'
  1348. [Sun Aug 09 14:16:10 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Trades are bad'
  1349. [Sun Aug 09 14:16:20 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'How about we for now discard trading and see how it turns out'
  1350. [Sun Aug 09 14:16:21 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think this rotation already bends over backwards to create scheduled raiding in a non-instanced EQ'
  1351. [Sun Aug 09 14:16:27 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it might possibly not be a problem'
  1352. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:00 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and until next meeting people have a good chance at coming up with a solution to the problem if it even excists'
  1353. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Passing itself I have no problem with, but the mechanics, tracking, and wording of rules feel like a nightmare'
  1354. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:11 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lets look at trades again, what if we just say - you can trade another guild on that time slots rotation - your new spot is that guild's spot, you can only trade once (both of you) before the rotation re-cycles'
  1355. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:31 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its simple'
  1356. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:33 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'has limits'
  1357. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:34 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'pita to manage again isnt it ?'
  1358. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:36 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lots of admin to that too'
  1359. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:37 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'nah'
  1360. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:39 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'follow me'
  1361. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:39 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i like first's suggestion'
  1362. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:47 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'order is lets say'
  1363. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:50 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'me too, stated by DBG, - dps race'
  1364. [Sun Aug 09 14:17:58 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lord nagafen - TL, Rosen, RoE, Apok'
  1365. [Sun Aug 09 14:18:08 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'rosen swaps with Apok'
  1366. [Sun Aug 09 14:18:20 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'new order (permanant) is - TL, Apok, RoE, Rosen'
  1367. [Sun Aug 09 14:18:32 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'until it restarts on TL, those 2 guilds cant trade again'
  1368. [Sun Aug 09 14:18:49 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it has limits, you just log it in trades, and swap the 2 guilds name in the rotation order'
  1369. [Sun Aug 09 14:18:58 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or add a lockout trading with a single guild until you've traded with X other'
  1370. [Sun Aug 09 14:19:02 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i may as well app to TL'
  1371. [Sun Aug 09 14:19:23 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it still wouldn't prevent 3 other guilds to trade their slot with a specific guild though'
  1372. [Sun Aug 09 14:19:27 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'How about this? If you're up, you can do whatever the heck you want with your mob during that 3 hours window, the end. If it's not dead 3 hours later, next guild is up.'
  1373. [Sun Aug 09 14:19:32 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes it does'
  1374. [Sun Aug 09 14:19:35 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so one guild would get 5/6 spawn that cycle'
  1375. [Sun Aug 09 14:19:38 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you cant trade again until it restarts'
  1376. [Sun Aug 09 14:19:49 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ah ok'
  1377. [Sun Aug 09 14:19:50 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I like that Jain'
  1378. [Sun Aug 09 14:19:52 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that seems simple to me jain'
  1379. [Sun Aug 09 14:19:58 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yea, I missread the intent of your sentance'
  1380. [Sun Aug 09 14:19:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'it may need a little rewording but'
  1381. [Sun Aug 09 14:20:08 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'nah i like it..'
  1382. [Sun Aug 09 14:20:09 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'those two guilds can't trade again as if those two guilds couldn't trade with eachother.'
  1383. [Sun Aug 09 14:20:20 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it comes across right as it should.. Your up and you decide'
  1384. [Sun Aug 09 14:20:22 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'jain - i think the thing is - in your example there, you'd move to the bottom because you failed/didn't engage. by proactively passing (for whatever reason) you hold your spot.'
  1385. [Sun Aug 09 14:20:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'i think you should either be allowed to do nothing, or its yours and you can do anything'
  1386. [Sun Aug 09 14:20:46 2015] Scipio tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Khore will be taking the responsibility of delegate for Ceaseless from here going forward'
  1387. [Sun Aug 09 14:20:53 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'we need to chat about any loopholes here but'
  1388. [Sun Aug 09 14:20:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thanks scip'
  1389. [Sun Aug 09 14:21:01 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why is everyone so scared of TL that we implemented a rotation, thats my question?'
  1390. [Sun Aug 09 14:21:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'if it dies on your clock it died, if it didnt it passes (or ffa)'
  1391. [Sun Aug 09 14:21:07 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lets be honest here'
  1392. [Sun Aug 09 14:21:20 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this rotation is taking away the point of the fuckign server'
  1393. [Sun Aug 09 14:21:25 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i like first's idea, it's simple and you cant abuse it'
  1394. [Sun Aug 09 14:21:59 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'my 2cents: i made CaF to give TL an upcoming challenge int he near future, if thats being taken away, LFGuild i guess'
  1395. [Sun Aug 09 14:22:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You now have a (11?) hour FFA window, Saytonic'
  1396. [Sun Aug 09 14:22:34 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Honestly I'd prefer that your mob is your mob, no trades, no passing, nothing (at least in-era content)'
  1397. [Sun Aug 09 14:22:53 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'dbg asked for a rotation, pure FFA wasn't healthy, we got apok's rotation, people believed it had issues, we're here today to make a community rotation that supports all playstyles - doesnt mean 1 or another dominates'
  1398. [Sun Aug 09 14:22:54 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you can still abstain from being on the rotation of a specific mob, right?'
  1399. [Sun Aug 09 14:22:57 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what does that have to do with anything?'
  1400. [Sun Aug 09 14:22:57 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We're here at this table because we've decided we are capable guilds'
  1401. [Sun Aug 09 14:23:28 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i totally agree we have many capable guilds'
  1402. [Sun Aug 09 14:23:36 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so they should earn their keep not have it handed to them imo'
  1403. [Sun Aug 09 14:23:40 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I do think its unfortunate if a guild misses a mob because it's not their night, but there is another guild lined up wanting to kill the mob'
  1404. [Sun Aug 09 14:23:40 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as should my own guild shrug'
  1405. [Sun Aug 09 14:23:51 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'zant - havent established that yet, in a single tier rotation, i dont think anyone has a problem'
  1406. [Sun Aug 09 14:23:59 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok'
  1407. [Sun Aug 09 14:24:03 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but its not come up yet to be voted on'
  1408. [Sun Aug 09 14:24:52 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so, probation period of 1 month without trades and see if it works?'
  1409. [Sun Aug 09 14:24:52 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I like Jain's idea. If it's your mob on the rotation, you can do whatever you want with it. Give it away to whoever you want, kill it yourself and destroy the loot, stare longingly into it's eyes fro the 3 hour period'
  1410. [Sun Aug 09 14:25:07 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if it dies, YOU move to the bottom. If it doesn't, next guild up'
  1411. [Sun Aug 09 14:25:11 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i like Jains idea too'
  1412. [Sun Aug 09 14:25:15 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i dont'
  1413. [Sun Aug 09 14:25:17 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you give it away, it ruins the rotation sorta'
  1414. [Sun Aug 09 14:25:18 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry jain'
  1415. [Sun Aug 09 14:25:21 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'scenario'
  1416. [Sun Aug 09 14:25:27 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I am very sorry if you miss a mob and I'll be glad to send you a tell directly expressing that sorry'
  1417. [Sun Aug 09 14:25:28 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 guilds cant kill trakanon'
  1418. [Sun Aug 09 14:25:43 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'they shop for a guild - TL offers them 1 item if it drops to trade to them'
  1419. [Sun Aug 09 14:25:44 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'OK listening'
  1420. [Sun Aug 09 14:25:46 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not if it's you that moves to the bottom because of it'
  1421. [Sun Aug 09 14:26:00 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'maybe trak is a bad example, lets say lady vox'
  1422. [Sun Aug 09 14:26:11 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'You don't move to the bottom of every mob's list tho'
  1423. [Sun Aug 09 14:26:12 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i see no problem giving away a mob if its yours to give'
  1424. [Sun Aug 09 14:26:15 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it can support a tribute mechanic'
  1425. [Sun Aug 09 14:26:29 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'You miss Vox but you are still up for CT, Inny, and Naggy'
  1426. [Sun Aug 09 14:26:44 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thing is, too - a "trade" means that the guild giving up the mob NOW gets the mob LATER, too.'
  1427. [Sun Aug 09 14:26:44 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we're here to do a rotation for killing stuff, not for giving away.'
  1428. [Sun Aug 09 14:27:30 2015] Marthisdil tells the group, 'raidchat is for chatter, brainstorming, etc. rotationcouncil is for voting, discussing specific points ont he floor, etc'
  1429. [Sun Aug 09 14:27:36 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you can't kill it, it should just fail, can implement more detailed shit later!'
  1430. [Sun Aug 09 14:27:43 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Why dont we vote on wither ootr not we want trades and if we DO we can hammer this shit out'
  1431. [Sun Aug 09 14:27:46 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'My opinion is probably from too many late night monopoly games in college. You start adding all this trading and deals and stuff and it's just a mess a few rounds in'
  1432. [Sun Aug 09 14:28:07 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'let's vote if we want trades or not, yes'
  1433. [Sun Aug 09 14:28:27 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  1434. [Sun Aug 09 14:28:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Trading is currently allowed in the current rotation. Is it really that big of a deal?'
  1435. [Sun Aug 09 14:28:38 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'heh yea'
  1436. [Sun Aug 09 14:28:40 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i don't think it is'
  1437. [Sun Aug 09 14:28:44 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Thalanos, it depends on the wording and what is allowed, I think so'
  1438. [Sun Aug 09 14:28:46 2015] Mhadlovins tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  1439. [Sun Aug 09 14:29:03 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you can trade to anyone atm, not even in rotation, you can trade any amount of mobs, theres no limit'
  1440. [Sun Aug 09 14:29:17 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If it gets out of hand its almost like playing all this side minigames in the tracking of everything'
  1441. [Sun Aug 09 14:29:26 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yep '
  1442. [Sun Aug 09 14:29:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok. Let's vote. Should guilds be able to trade. Yes/No'
  1443. [Sun Aug 09 14:29:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  1444. [Sun Aug 09 14:30:03 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes Tempus'
  1445. [Sun Aug 09 14:30:08 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No < Rosengard>'
  1446. [Sun Aug 09 14:30:08 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Darkwind>'
  1447. [Sun Aug 09 14:30:14 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes FP'
  1448. [Sun Aug 09 14:30:15 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Twisted Legacy>'
  1449. [Sun Aug 09 14:30:21 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1450. [Sun Aug 09 14:30:31 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <RoE>'
  1451. [Sun Aug 09 14:30:32 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Ceaseless>'
  1452. [Sun Aug 09 14:30:40 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <TLG>'
  1453. [Sun Aug 09 14:31:02 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Abstain <Remnants of Prexus>'
  1454. [Sun Aug 09 14:31:10 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no <CaF>'
  1455. [Sun Aug 09 14:31:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '7 No, 3 Yes, 1 Abstain'
  1456. [Sun Aug 09 14:31:49 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i want the record to note that TL wishes to revisit this - 1 month at the latest, I want to talk to guilds who dont raid regularly after a trial period personally'
  1457. [Sun Aug 09 14:32:12 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what does "failed" mean exactly?'
  1458. [Sun Aug 09 14:32:23 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'first i think we can revist it during a hopefully somewhat regular (and shorter) meeting'
  1459. [Sun Aug 09 14:32:40 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'There is no 2/3 majority'
  1460. [Sun Aug 09 14:32:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It means that we cannot enforce no trading for the moment.'
  1461. [Sun Aug 09 14:32:51 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok that makes sense Thal'
  1462. [Sun Aug 09 14:33:01 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes shorter is better, 6 hours so far is too much'
  1463. [Sun Aug 09 14:33:30 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'actually'
  1464. [Sun Aug 09 14:33:33 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think it's a shame that something has to be shot down because people will use it other than it's intention, and thereby hinders legitimate cooperation amongst guilds where everyone wins.'
  1465. [Sun Aug 09 14:33:37 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thats not quite accurate'
  1466. [Sun Aug 09 14:34:06 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we did not pass no trading, but we dont exactly have pure trading, we have what was in the proposal we adopted'
  1467. [Sun Aug 09 14:34:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there are valid reasons why those guilds voted the way they did, we should not call it shot down'
  1468. [Sun Aug 09 14:34:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'oops misread, sorry ryan'
  1469. [Sun Aug 09 14:35:04 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the rule adopted in the time slot proposal, is that "3), As long as 22hrs have not passed.....etc'
  1470. [Sun Aug 09 14:35:12 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so that stands'
  1471. [Sun Aug 09 14:35:25 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'just wanted to point out that it is not pure trading, it is that rule that is in effect'
  1472. [Sun Aug 09 14:36:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, so should we motion to maintain what we decided in our last meeting on this topic?'
  1473. [Sun Aug 09 14:36:25 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think in the mean time, if everyone will please just be very generous about documenting their trading, this will help us gather data to revisit if we need to (perhaps we won't)'
  1474. [Sun Aug 09 14:36:38 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we adopted the time-slot proposal already, so its in effect unless we remove it or alter it i think'
  1475. [Sun Aug 09 14:36:40 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed jain'
  1476. [Sun Aug 09 14:36:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ah, good point.'
  1477. [Sun Aug 09 14:36:51 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the rule can be changed if necessary once we see how it goes'
  1478. [Sun Aug 09 14:36:58 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, its an oddly worded rule'
  1479. [Sun Aug 09 14:37:19 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'just wanted to be clear that is in effect, and it has specific limits'
  1480. [Sun Aug 09 14:37:20 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we move one please'
  1481. [Sun Aug 09 14:37:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok. Next item is removal from rotation.'
  1482. [Sun Aug 09 14:38:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Should a guild be removed from the rotation for any reason?'
  1483. [Sun Aug 09 14:38:21 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Options:'
  1484. [Sun Aug 09 14:39:06 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No, once they make it on the rotation they stay until the next expansion. 2) Yes, a majority vote can remove the guild for rule violations or being inactive. 3) Yes, if you fail twice on any target in the rotation period, you are removed, and will have to attempt the gatekeeper to rejoin'
  1485. [Sun Aug 09 14:39:24 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sagnid u can pee on me anytime'
  1486. [Sun Aug 09 14:39:25 2015] Mhadlovins tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as per the Agenda option 2 is appropriate as it allows for violations of the rotation to be addressed'
  1487. [Sun Aug 09 14:39:43 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would like to see 2 broken up. Those are 2 pretty disparate things'
  1488. [Sun Aug 09 14:40:08 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I propose a 4th option both 2 and 3'
  1489. [Sun Aug 09 14:40:24 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what's a "rotation period"? one set of kills for all?'
  1490. [Sun Aug 09 14:40:25 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you are on the rotation, you can kill the bosses'
  1491. [Sun Aug 09 14:41:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if we're adopting the rules from prior, you cannot be removed without a majority vote.'
  1492. [Sun Aug 09 14:42:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'rotation period is one complete cycle for a mob'
  1493. [Sun Aug 09 14:42:42 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'then it's impossible to fail twice in it, unless you'd trade'
  1494. [Sun Aug 09 14:43:31 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think Zant has a good point'
  1495. [Sun Aug 09 14:44:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'However we may want to voite on the 1st point as a yes/no, and if no, then vote on these other pieces'
  1496. [Sun Aug 09 14:44:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry, for all mobs, I believe was the intent. Somebody else submitted this, so I guess i'm not entirely sure. Let's remove that and replace it with failing a complete cycle of all 4 mobs?'
  1497. [Sun Aug 09 14:44:10 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'when i tried to come up with it, it was impossible to track a full cycle, that sort of things, the only true metric is - killing (example) 1 out of the last 5 rotation mobs you were up for, etc'
  1498. [Sun Aug 09 14:44:24 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if we're talking about inactivity, a guild who only raids a few days a week coudl fall inactive with simple bad luck on spawn timing'
  1499. [Sun Aug 09 14:44:51 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i think thats when its helpful to know your raiding days'
  1500. [Sun Aug 09 14:45:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think we decided it was in the best interest to police ourselves and not remove people unless they are abusing or inactive. '
  1501. [Sun Aug 09 14:45:17 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ryan thats where trades come in handy'
  1502. [Sun Aug 09 14:45:27 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i agree thalanos'
  1503. [Sun Aug 09 14:45:38 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you can trade with another guild in the rotation to get a mob for your raid day'
  1504. [Sun Aug 09 14:45:42 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree Thal'
  1505. [Sun Aug 09 14:45:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anyone object to upholding what was decided on the prior rotation?'
  1506. [Sun Aug 09 14:45:52 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We haven't determined that you can even be removed within the expansion due to inactivity, so I think that has to be established here'
  1507. [Sun Aug 09 14:45:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'meeting*'
  1508. [Sun Aug 09 14:46:01 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'or that ^'
  1509. [Sun Aug 09 14:46:05 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'wait, I thoguth trades weren't being allowed, only passes?'
  1510. [Sun Aug 09 14:46:10 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if i saw that DW raided 2 nights a week, and they failed on mobs on sat/sun/fri, but havent failed on their scheduled tue/wed, theyre not getting removed'
  1511. [Sun Aug 09 14:46:13 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Ryan the vote vailed'
  1512. [Sun Aug 09 14:46:54 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if it fails it would exclude both trading, and not trading, no?'
  1513. [Sun Aug 09 14:47:08 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but then First pointed out that only the "pass" provision was in the proposal we were currently working from'
  1514. [Sun Aug 09 14:47:17 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if the vote fails like it did, the rules don't change from what they are'
  1515. [Sun Aug 09 14:47:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if it fails we have to maintain what we currently have voted on'
  1516. [Sun Aug 09 14:47:24 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'No because the proposal already included rules about trading'
  1517. [Sun Aug 09 14:47:34 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry talking too much'
  1518. [Sun Aug 09 14:47:54 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we voted yes to use the proposal from 7/31 as the baseline, as written, and we've been discussing changes to it since that vote passed'
  1519. [Sun Aug 09 14:47:55 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'from previous meeting?'
  1520. [Sun Aug 09 14:47:59 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok'
  1521. [Sun Aug 09 14:48:03 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yea, that'd stand'
  1522. [Sun Aug 09 14:48:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok. I think we've agreed not to change it from the proposal we adopted. Lets move on'
  1523. [Sun Aug 09 14:48:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Gatekeepers'
  1524. [Sun Aug 09 14:48:20 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'am I missing the "trade" portion on that document on ragefireforums?'
  1525. [Sun Aug 09 14:48:28 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  1526. [Sun Aug 09 14:48:32 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its notes at the bottom 3)'
  1527. [Sun Aug 09 14:48:33 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '3) So long as 22 hours have not passed since a rotated mobs previous death, guilds are permitted to pass their spot on the rotation to the next guild in line (the other guild must acknowledge this transfer otherwise the transfer is deemed void).'
  1528. [Sun Aug 09 14:48:47 2015] Mhadlovins tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we never voted no?'
  1529. [Sun Aug 09 14:48:56 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we voted to adopt that proposal'
  1530. [Sun Aug 09 14:49:10 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we voted not to remove trading, so that stands since we previously adopted it'
  1531. [Sun Aug 09 14:49:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Who should the gatekeepers be for Classic Radi Targets? Options:1 Lord Nagafen⶧ Vox Cazic-Thule Option 2: The Spiroc Lord and Keeper of Souls, Option 3: all of the above. Discuss modifications '
  1532. [Sun Aug 09 14:49:19 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right, that's a "pass" provision, not a "trade" provision'
  1533. [Sun Aug 09 14:49:34 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry Thal'
  1534. [Sun Aug 09 14:49:37 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the is that a AND or ANY OF?'
  1535. [Sun Aug 09 14:49:49 2015] Mhadlovins tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there was no vote on removal from rotation'
  1536. [Sun Aug 09 14:49:59 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i strongly believe having the rotation mobs as gatekeepers is a bad idea.. they mess up the rotation and isnt up as often as the 2 sky mobs mnetioned above'
  1537. [Sun Aug 09 14:50:03 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I have a motion'
  1538. [Sun Aug 09 14:50:31 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and i think KoS is tabout as hard as any of the rotation mobs'
  1539. [Sun Aug 09 14:50:33 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sky mobs are more easily accessable (in a way, yea)'
  1540. [Sun Aug 09 14:50:55 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i think it should be KoS and spiroc lord as well,'
  1541. [Sun Aug 09 14:51:07 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'shows dedication by gaining keys for your guild etc'
  1542. [Sun Aug 09 14:51:15 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thats my next point aswell'
  1543. [Sun Aug 09 14:51:18 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'INNY CT VOX NAGGY KoS Spiroc Lord/ '
  1544. [Sun Aug 09 14:51:37 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it shows that you are willing to put in both time and effort in getting there and killing the mob'
  1545. [Sun Aug 09 14:51:37 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no, not the actual raid targets'
  1546. [Sun Aug 09 14:51:42 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Inny should be a gatekeeeper if naggy vox and CT are'
  1547. [Sun Aug 09 14:52:00 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as stated, just KoS and spiroc lord, shows dedication etc'
  1548. [Sun Aug 09 14:52:01 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'problem being you can kill them with like 25 magi, 2 (maybe 3?) clerics and a chanter ;/'
  1549. [Sun Aug 09 14:52:19 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'like you can with all the rest of the mobs?'
  1550. [Sun Aug 09 14:52:20 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'u can kill naggy with 25mages and a cleric whats your point?'
  1551. [Sun Aug 09 14:52:22 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can kill naggy/cvox the same'
  1552. [Sun Aug 09 14:52:45 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I just dont understandy Why Inny is omitted.'
  1553. [Sun Aug 09 14:52:53 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sec math, making a motion'
  1554. [Sun Aug 09 14:53:33 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'motion to reword gatekeeper a) to - FFA versions of any rotation mob or KoS/SL - yes/no'
  1555. [Sun Aug 09 14:53:34 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed'
  1556. [Sun Aug 09 14:53:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Can one of the guilds currently in the rotation clarify for Mathias why Inny is ommitted as a gatekeeper?'
  1557. [Sun Aug 09 14:53:56 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i can agree wtih that.. if you snipe a rotation mob gone ffa you deserve a spot on the rotation aswell'
  1558. [Sun Aug 09 14:54:03 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'going forward'
  1559. [Sun Aug 09 14:54:08 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'beacuse apok ninja changed the rules from nag and didnt add inny'
  1560. [Sun Aug 09 14:54:32 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and with the understanding that if posky is changed, we meet to discuss'
  1561. [Sun Aug 09 14:54:48 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed'
  1562. [Sun Aug 09 14:54:49 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I do not think any of the guilds currently in the rotation can explain this because none of present guilds wrote or participated in that rule'
  1563. [Sun Aug 09 14:55:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Is the level of difficulty of Inny on par with Naggy / vox / CT?'
  1564. [Sun Aug 09 14:55:26 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'theyre all different'
  1565. [Sun Aug 09 14:55:29 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i dunno.. i think it depends on who does it.. '
  1566. [Sun Aug 09 14:55:36 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'depends alot on guild'
  1567. [Sun Aug 09 14:56:03 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so either FFA or KoS AND SL?'
  1568. [Sun Aug 09 14:56:21 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  1569. [Sun Aug 09 14:56:26 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed'
  1570. [Sun Aug 09 14:56:35 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so just to clarify you have to kill both Kos and Spiroc lord?'
  1571. [Sun Aug 09 14:56:41 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'My proposal - gatekeepers = KoS/Spiroc Lord OR a kill of ANY rotation mob during ANY FFA period'
  1572. [Sun Aug 09 14:56:42 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no its OR'
  1573. [Sun Aug 09 14:56:45 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'aight, just wanted to make sure there was an and or an or!'
  1574. [Sun Aug 09 14:56:54 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yea thats important'
  1575. [Sun Aug 09 14:56:55 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'clarifying my proposal - KoS OR Spiroc Lord'
  1576. [Sun Aug 09 14:56:57 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'mood point with spiroc lord then )'
  1577. [Sun Aug 09 14:56:57 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Is there a reason to specify both KoS *and* SL..?'
  1578. [Sun Aug 09 14:57:01 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'have to kill kos to get to spiroc lord )'
  1579. [Sun Aug 09 14:57:13 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can have killed KoS before'
  1580. [Sun Aug 09 14:57:14 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not necessarily bon - if isle 4 is down and you have keyed folks and 5 is up...'
  1581. [Sun Aug 09 14:57:15 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lolol'
  1582. [Sun Aug 09 14:57:15 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can SC'
  1583. [Sun Aug 09 14:57:18 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, it was intended to be an OR'
  1584. [Sun Aug 09 14:57:27 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'aight, just for clarification!'
  1585. [Sun Aug 09 14:57:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I meant to say *or*'
  1586. [Sun Aug 09 14:57:45 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'because i've seen mage box groups farming KoS over the past week and isle 4 isn't always up :)'
  1587. [Sun Aug 09 14:57:57 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'those blasted mage boxs'
  1588. [Sun Aug 09 14:58:01 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'report them'
  1589. [Sun Aug 09 14:58:09 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I dont think the rotation mobs shoudl be required to be kileld during FFA to get into the rotation, if a guild wishes to give up their mob to let another guild a shot, then they should be let int o the rot if they down it'
  1590. [Sun Aug 09 14:58:13 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you need to kill it with only your guild, not assistance from others as well?'
  1591. [Sun Aug 09 14:58:32 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  1592. [Sun Aug 09 14:58:34 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'zan believe so - no alliance provision is in there'
  1593. [Sun Aug 09 14:58:40 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that would be a given unless you have a clear raid alliance'
  1594. [Sun Aug 09 14:58:55 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no raid alliances allowed ?'
  1595. [Sun Aug 09 14:58:59 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No, but you only need a single person to add, say 15-20 magi to the force p'
  1596. [Sun Aug 09 14:59:00 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'khore if a guild wanted to give up their mob to someone, personally, i'd be ok with that'
  1597. [Sun Aug 09 14:59:26 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it would need to be said, words as written it is explicitly FFA :)'
  1598. [Sun Aug 09 14:59:32 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so a reword - No help, existing guild can give up for gatekeeper, kill of - FFA rotation mob or KoS or SL?'
  1599. [Sun Aug 09 15:01:06 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I woudl even add that guild giving up mob even keeps loot, it's strictly about the experience for the guild trying the new encounter'
  1600. [Sun Aug 09 15:01:20 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its up to the guild honestly'
  1601. [Sun Aug 09 15:01:28 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no need to stipulate that'
  1602. [Sun Aug 09 15:01:55 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'first - worded a bit more properly - Gatekeepers - Kill Keeper of Souls OR Spiroc Lord. If you kill ANY mob on the rotation during *ANY* FFA period, that will be considered a gatekeeper kill. A current rotation guild may choose to give their slot (in whole) to another guild to attempt to kill, and if so, will be considered a gatekeeper kill.'
  1603. [Sun Aug 09 15:02:16 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds good'
  1604. [Sun Aug 09 15:02:21 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'done next!'
  1605. [Sun Aug 09 15:02:21 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds good'
  1606. [Sun Aug 09 15:02:22 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no help'
  1607. [Sun Aug 09 15:02:23 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I second '
  1608. [Sun Aug 09 15:02:30 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'dont forget the no help'
  1609. [Sun Aug 09 15:02:36 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, '^'
  1610. [Sun Aug 09 15:02:42 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, '^'
  1611. [Sun Aug 09 15:02:47 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'alliances should be discussed next meeting tho'
  1612. [Sun Aug 09 15:02:59 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'first - worded a bit more properly - Gatekeepers - Kill Keeper of Souls OR Spiroc Lord. If you kill ANY mob on the rotation during *ANY* FFA period, that will be considered a gatekeeper kill. A current rotation guild may choose to give their slot (in whole) to another guild (who can use no ourside assistance) to attempt to kill, and if so, will be considered a gatekeeper kill.'
  1613. [Sun Aug 09 15:03:13 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'correct spelling of "outside" lol'
  1614. [Sun Aug 09 15:03:23 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what would happend if it became tainted?'
  1615. [Sun Aug 09 15:03:28 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i meant to say open raid alliances*'
  1616. [Sun Aug 09 15:03:40 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'by say a guild who didn't want, ran up with 12 people (or a box army) and aided the kill?'
  1617. [Sun Aug 09 15:03:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Let's vote to establish the gatekeepers, then vote to define what constitutes a gatekeeper kill?'
  1618. [Sun Aug 09 15:03:48 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'didn't want that guild in*'
  1619. [Sun Aug 09 15:04:00 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that would be interference in rotation zantosa, and would be grounds for suspension'
  1620. [Sun Aug 09 15:04:08 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Aight.'
  1621. [Sun Aug 09 15:04:16 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Asa per DBG that guild would be abnned for interferes Zant'
  1622. [Sun Aug 09 15:04:21 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '(we need to add rules to protect posky attempts)'
  1623. [Sun Aug 09 15:04:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'such as?'
  1624. [Sun Aug 09 15:04:43 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the 24h warning seems to work fine'
  1625. [Sun Aug 09 15:04:57 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'maybe add 1/week of those announcements'
  1626. [Sun Aug 09 15:05:04 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, '24h ceaseless will be in sky tomorrow 9-12 :)'
  1627. [Sun Aug 09 15:05:10 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, '24h warning even'
  1628. [Sun Aug 09 15:05:38 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think we have a couple things to hash out here, can we take them one at a time'
  1629. [Sun Aug 09 15:06:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, let's start by defining the gatekeepers.'
  1630. [Sun Aug 09 15:06:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Who should the gatekeepers be for Classic Raid Targets? Options:'
  1631. [Sun Aug 09 15:06:20 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i mortion to add marths propsal to the list'
  1632. [Sun Aug 09 15:06:30 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'propose - KoS or Spiroc Lord or any FFA kill of current rotation mob'
  1633. [Sun Aug 09 15:06:47 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  1634. [Sun Aug 09 15:06:49 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'simple as i can get the gatekeeper mob list :)'
  1635. [Sun Aug 09 15:07:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So we're maintaining what the agenda originally stated?'
  1636. [Sun Aug 09 15:07:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Naggy/vox/cazic'
  1637. [Sun Aug 09 15:07:58 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Kos/Spiroc'
  1638. [Sun Aug 09 15:08:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Or all of them'
  1639. [Sun Aug 09 15:08:14 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why not inny'
  1640. [Sun Aug 09 15:08:17 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why not add inno to that, or is he trivial beyond belief?'
  1641. [Sun Aug 09 15:08:20 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'KOS/spiroc/all rot mobs (FFA or given away)'
  1642. [Sun Aug 09 15:08:23 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no -Why not Inny?'
  1643. [Sun Aug 09 15:08:33 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thal - I've proposed that we use as gatekeepers - Keeper of Souls or Spiroc Lord or any FFA kill of any of the 4 current rotation mobs'
  1644. [Sun Aug 09 15:08:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I have no objections'
  1645. [Sun Aug 09 15:08:55 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think it should be KoS/SL/and all rot mobs (ffa or given)'
  1646. [Sun Aug 09 15:10:23 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it's been proposed and seconded, can we vote?'
  1647. [Sun Aug 09 15:11:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Who should the gatekeepers be for Classic Raid Targets? KoS/Spiroc / Any FFA Mob Yes/no'
  1648. [Sun Aug 09 15:11:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote'
  1649. [Sun Aug 09 15:11:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Patience ;)'
  1650. [Sun Aug 09 15:11:28 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  1651. [Sun Aug 09 15:11:36 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, all <RoE>'
  1652. [Sun Aug 09 15:11:37 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'please include the language that specifcy it may be given away not just FFA'
  1653. [Sun Aug 09 15:11:41 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1654. [Sun Aug 09 15:11:51 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  1655. [Sun Aug 09 15:11:52 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes (Remnants of Prexus) - assuming the yes vote is the proposal I stated (KoS or SL or ANY FFA kill of current rotation mobs)'
  1656. [Sun Aug 09 15:11:57 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <TLG> '
  1657. [Sun Aug 09 15:12:00 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'khore that should be an additional rule to the rotation mobs'
  1658. [Sun Aug 09 15:12:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Who should the gatekeepers be for Classic Raid Targets? KoS/Spiroc / Any FFA Mob (Cannot be g iven away) Yes/No'
  1659. [Sun Aug 09 15:12:06 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1660. [Sun Aug 09 15:12:08 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  1661. [Sun Aug 09 15:12:09 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'very well'
  1662. [Sun Aug 09 15:12:30 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1663. [Sun Aug 09 15:12:32 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Any vote changes on account of the clarification?'
  1664. [Sun Aug 09 15:12:45 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes my vote will change'
  1665. [Sun Aug 09 15:12:56 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'wait'
  1666. [Sun Aug 09 15:13:03 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'due to the cannot be given away - as i think it should be a separate amendment to the gatekeeper kill list'
  1667. [Sun Aug 09 15:13:16 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the proposal was that specifically guilds COULD give the mobs away, and it changed to could not'
  1668. [Sun Aug 09 15:13:32 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'IMO - we should have the gatekeeper list and then have a sub-rule to that to allow/disallow guilds to give up their spot to let someone attempt'
  1669. [Sun Aug 09 15:13:52 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'then the FFA term should be removed'
  1670. [Sun Aug 09 15:13:53 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree with Marth, especially that before any subrules we need to know the gatekeepers'
  1671. [Sun Aug 09 15:14:00 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that would make the most sense, they are 2 pretty different issues'
  1672. [Sun Aug 09 15:14:00 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'example: Rule #### <gatekeeper mobs> Rule ####a <rule to let guilds let someone have their spor tot try or not>'
  1673. [Sun Aug 09 15:14:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'These are separate issues imo'
  1674. [Sun Aug 09 15:14:10 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so gatekeeper kos, spiroc, all rot mobs'
  1675. [Sun Aug 09 15:14:14 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I want a revote to clarify the question!'
  1676. [Sun Aug 09 15:14:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The gatekeeper mobs are now: KOS / Spiroc / All rotation mobs Yes/No'
  1677. [Sun Aug 09 15:14:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote'
  1678. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:06 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1679. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:12 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  1680. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:13 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1681. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:16 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1682. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:17 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thal - you changed it again'
  1683. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:17 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <RoE>'
  1684. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:17 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  1685. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:26 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'from what i prposed ;)'
  1686. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:28 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'YEs Flase prophecy'
  1687. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Guys. Stop.'
  1688. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote on what is proposed.'
  1689. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:46 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes Tempus'
  1690. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:52 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you can't use current rotation mobs without the FFA clarification because then a guild would want to be given someone's spot'
  1691. [Sun Aug 09 15:15:53 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <TLG>'
  1692. [Sun Aug 09 15:16:28 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Marth I think hold that though, there isn't any provision of that currently, but it can be proposed'
  1693. [Sun Aug 09 15:16:45 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it was proposed in my proposal - clearly stated any FFA kill of a current rotation mob'
  1694. [Sun Aug 09 15:17:16 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as thal worded it, i could come in, say i wanna kill inny, and ask to be given someone's slot to try (since there's no ffa slots during the hour slots) (just an example)'
  1695. [Sun Aug 09 15:17:27 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'having the FFA clarification as part of the gatekeeper list absolves that completely'
  1696. [Sun Aug 09 15:17:47 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well, with this vote, any kill counts. Now we can revisit whether or not mobs can be given away'
  1697. [Sun Aug 09 15:17:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We voted on that, and there were issues with that too. Can we get some consistency please?'
  1698. [Sun Aug 09 15:18:20 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Whether they give it to you or not doesn't impact whether it is a gatekeeper. I'm not seeing the connection.'
  1699. [Sun Aug 09 15:18:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Marthis, what is your proposal: please clearly outline it'
  1700. [Sun Aug 09 15:18:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and then if anybody has a propblem with it, speak up before we vote.'
  1701. [Sun Aug 09 15:18:31 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, '<Remnants of Prexus> votes yes to the Kos/SL/Rotation Mob List as gatekeepers but we MUST address that the rotation mob be an ffa kill (or someone giving their slot)'
  1702. [Sun Aug 09 15:18:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Can you clarify why this matters'
  1703. [Sun Aug 09 15:19:07 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I stated: Gatekeeper List - Keeper of Souls or Spiric Lord or any FFA kill of any current rotation mob'
  1704. [Sun Aug 09 15:19:10 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Why is this relevant'
  1705. [Sun Aug 09 15:19:49 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'marth, for this vote, we are just making a list of the mobs. Not how they are kileld'
  1706. [Sun Aug 09 15:20:07 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I don't think anyone is disagreeing with whether you stated it that way, but it sounds like you're tying two issues together into a single vote'
  1707. [Sun Aug 09 15:20:08 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'because if i see inny up, and there is no ffa in there, i can go up, engage, jumping the rotation, and have an active defense from punishment'
  1708. [Sun Aug 09 15:20:37 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not true, dbg will ban'
  1709. [Sun Aug 09 15:20:41 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well you still ahve to abide by rotation though, jsut like everyone else'
  1710. [Sun Aug 09 15:20:45 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'since i'm not on the rotation, and since it just says inny is a gatekeeper mob, if i get there first, i engage, db can't suspend me (technically) because i didn't do anythign but try and kill a gatekeeper'
  1711. [Sun Aug 09 15:20:45 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'since youre not following rotation'
  1712. [Sun Aug 09 15:20:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think we're all smart enough to realize you can't do that'
  1713. [Sun Aug 09 15:20:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yeah I sort of see what you're saying but I think that's going to get your guild a 7 day suspension'
  1714. [Sun Aug 09 15:20:56 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'dbs are morons and likely will, but it's still an active defense'
  1715. [Sun Aug 09 15:21:11 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I guess we could vote on whether you get on after the suspension ends but probably gonna get shot down'
  1716. [Sun Aug 09 15:21:44 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It would be a funny loophole to exploit - eat a suspension, get on the rotation...'
  1717. [Sun Aug 09 15:22:42 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Proposal - Guilds can give away their mobs to other entities if they so choose'
  1718. [Sun Aug 09 15:22:54 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, we've agreed that The Spiroc Lord/ KoS, and All current rotation mobs are now gatekeepers.'
  1719. [Sun Aug 09 15:22:58 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that is a good point, but also doesnt matter for this vote, we can make a motion to vote on how the rotation mobs need to be killed in order to get on the rot'
  1720. [Sun Aug 09 15:23:05 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Did that vote conlcude then?'
  1721. [Sun Aug 09 15:23:10 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We have several who abstained then'
  1722. [Sun Aug 09 15:23:16 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'after we decide who the gatekeepers are'
  1723. [Sun Aug 09 15:23:22 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'was 8 or more that voted yes though'
  1724. [Sun Aug 09 15:23:23 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thalanos With that being said i would like to point out for the benifit of the logs that FALSE PROPHECY is now on rotation'
  1725. [Sun Aug 09 15:23:44 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'how'
  1726. [Sun Aug 09 15:23:54 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We killed Inny on FFA'
  1727. [Sun Aug 09 15:23:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Matthias, rules we enact now are not retroactive'
  1728. [Sun Aug 09 15:24:04 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, '^^'
  1729. [Sun Aug 09 15:24:16 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Remnants of Prexus votes yes on Kos/SL/Rotation mobs as gatekeepers'
  1730. [Sun Aug 09 15:24:29 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yep, thats a sep vote'
  1731. [Sun Aug 09 15:24:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It's not to disregard your progress, but we cannot alter something that was not in place at time of kill'
  1732. [Sun Aug 09 15:25:22 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '... seriously?'
  1733. [Sun Aug 09 15:25:41 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'then how does anyone of the 5 qualify if these rules are not retractive'
  1734. [Sun Aug 09 15:25:52 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'was voted on'
  1735. [Sun Aug 09 15:25:52 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it was said to be a vote if people who had killed new gatekeepers would be voted on'
  1736. [Sun Aug 09 15:25:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We had a vote for that'
  1737. [Sun Aug 09 15:25:57 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'because we voted earlier to automatically bring the 5 currently on the rotation over'
  1738. [Sun Aug 09 15:26:02 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I can paste a copy of the minutes if requested'
  1739. [Sun Aug 09 15:26:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'to grandfather in existing members. '
  1740. [Sun Aug 09 15:26:04 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i see no reason not to make it retroactive'
  1741. [Sun Aug 09 15:26:17 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can put it up to a vote now though'
  1742. [Sun Aug 09 15:26:19 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if they killed inny on a ffa day and he is a gatekeeper they would come on rotation'
  1743. [Sun Aug 09 15:26:30 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'khore that's a different thing once we finish with everythign else - but yes, it can be discussed. matthias' demand was just improperly timed'
  1744. [Sun Aug 09 15:26:52 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'because fp getting on the rotation means noting until we have a rotation in place'
  1745. [Sun Aug 09 15:27:00 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right'
  1746. [Sun Aug 09 15:27:02 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yep, i motioned to put it to a vote when we put in the existing 5 (after discussing gatekeepers) if you recall'
  1747. [Sun Aug 09 15:27:12 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I disagree Marth'
  1748. [Sun Aug 09 15:27:41 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i think we should split 2 votes: 1 determines the gatekeepers, we seem to be unanimous on this, and another on what constitutes a rotation qualifiing kill '
  1749. [Sun Aug 09 15:27:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, we need to wrap that up'
  1750. [Sun Aug 09 15:28:06 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'now that we've decided on gatekeepers, can we vote on those who qualified (FP only?) should be added to the rotation?'
  1751. [Sun Aug 09 15:28:18 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we still didn't decide what was initially apart of the last vote, whether or not guilds can give away thri mobs'
  1752. [Sun Aug 09 15:28:22 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or anyone that kills a gatekeeper until this is greenlit, as well'
  1753. [Sun Aug 09 15:28:23 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we need to wrap it all up.. weve been at this for 7 hours now and i cant possibly be the only one both getting tired hungry and what not!'
  1754. [Sun Aug 09 15:28:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Did CAF abstain from the Gatekeeper vote? I see no record'
  1755. [Sun Aug 09 15:28:51 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'vote yes - caf'
  1756. [Sun Aug 09 15:29:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote entered, thank you'
  1757. [Sun Aug 09 15:29:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What did we decide constitutes a gatekeeper kill.'
  1758. [Sun Aug 09 15:29:40 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Initially the proposal for the gatekeeper mobs included a provision fro guilds giving away mobs. Can we please finish that vote before we close the door on gatekeepers, since it was all intertwined'
  1759. [Sun Aug 09 15:29:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'working on that ryan'
  1760. [Sun Aug 09 15:30:06 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Can we vote on those who have killed gatekeepers and/or will kill gatekepers until rotation is greenlit get moved up to rotation after that?'
  1761. [Sun Aug 09 15:30:07 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would like to state for the record FP was not Given out kill we waited until FFA and killed it'
  1762. [Sun Aug 09 15:30:43 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right now, it's been voted and I believe passed unanimously, that KoS/SL and All current rotation mobs would qualify for entry to rotation'
  1763. [Sun Aug 09 15:31:12 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if that's what you were asking Thal'
  1764. [Sun Aug 09 15:31:19 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as it stands, CaF has keyed the guild up to island 5, downed KoS but not spiroc lord'
  1765. [Sun Aug 09 15:31:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, sorry, Gatekeeper list vote passed unanimoustly with 11 in agreement for KoS/SL/Nag/Inny/CT/Vox'
  1766. [Sun Aug 09 15:31:30 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'havent even attempted SL'
  1767. [Sun Aug 09 15:31:43 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'without assistance?'
  1768. [Sun Aug 09 15:32:04 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'done it once just myself and shadowsai, and once as a guild with myself and 3 other groups'
  1769. [Sun Aug 09 15:32:07 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the question is how old was that KoS kill? before or after the server wide mob buffing?'
  1770. [Sun Aug 09 15:32:11 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'FP had no assistance in the gatekeeper'
  1771. [Sun Aug 09 15:32:27 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'uhh, last week? since the first discussion'
  1772. [Sun Aug 09 15:32:29 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i motion to add a new #8c. Guilds who have, prior to this meeting, killed a current (buffed) gatekeeper solo, are to be added to the rotation without further qualification? Yes/No'
  1773. [Sun Aug 09 15:32:32 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I saw one kill with a 20 TL box, was new KoS'
  1774. [Sun Aug 09 15:32:47 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded First'
  1775. [Sun Aug 09 15:32:53 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Third'
  1776. [Sun Aug 09 15:32:56 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'for clarification'
  1777. [Sun Aug 09 15:33:07 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'which guilds are that? FP?'
  1778. [Sun Aug 09 15:33:08 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'to my knowledge this is FP on FFA inny, and CAF on KoS- did i miss anyone?'
  1779. [Sun Aug 09 15:33:19 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'they didn't kill KoS without assistance'
  1780. [Sun Aug 09 15:33:45 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'say - has CAF killed the new Inny with only CAF members participating?'
  1781. [Sun Aug 09 15:33:45 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'would you like us to right now again?:)'
  1782. [Sun Aug 09 15:34:00 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, '@first, inny-no, Keeper of souls buffed, yes'
  1783. [Sun Aug 09 15:34:15 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry yes i meant KoS'
  1784. [Sun Aug 09 15:34:31 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as stated, ive killed buffed KoS once with shadowsai, and once with my guild'
  1785. [Sun Aug 09 15:34:41 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can you provide a valid screenshot of your KoS kill Saytonic?'
  1786. [Sun Aug 09 15:34:42 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Marthisdil - <Remnants of Prexus> stepping away for a bit (kids need me) - will stay online'
  1787. [Sun Aug 09 15:34:44 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you have any evidence of the second?'
  1788. [Sun Aug 09 15:35:04 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i do not, thats why i told jain we will kill it again :)'
  1789. [Sun Aug 09 15:35:20 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok, so for clarification, this is only a vote on FP FFA Inny then'
  1790. [Sun Aug 09 15:35:28 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thank you fo rbeing willing to do it again say'
  1791. [Sun Aug 09 15:35:40 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds good to me!'
  1792. [Sun Aug 09 15:35:40 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'doesnt bother us more lewts!'
  1793. [Sun Aug 09 15:35:57 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you guys wish to observe, please talk to say later'
  1794. [Sun Aug 09 15:36:15 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we have a motion and a second, and it was clarified that this is to only cover FP and FFA Inny at this time'
  1795. [Sun Aug 09 15:36:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'for clarification, we are voting to add FP to the rotation based on their FFA inny kill?'
  1796. [Sun Aug 09 15:36:51 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  1797. [Sun Aug 09 15:37:16 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'On grounds that this will be a retroactive add now that Inny is a gatekeeper'
  1798. [Sun Aug 09 15:37:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'FP Should now be added to the rotation based on their FFA Inny kill yes/no'
  1799. [Sun Aug 09 15:37:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  1800. [Sun Aug 09 15:37:35 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Darkwind>'
  1801. [Sun Aug 09 15:37:42 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no caf'
  1802. [Sun Aug 09 15:37:52 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  1803. [Sun Aug 09 15:37:53 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1804. [Sun Aug 09 15:37:55 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  1805. [Sun Aug 09 15:37:58 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <TLG>'
  1806. [Sun Aug 09 15:38:00 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes. <False Prophecy>'
  1807. [Sun Aug 09 15:38:05 2015] Emonks tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <RoE>'
  1808. [Sun Aug 09 15:38:15 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Rosengard>'
  1809. [Sun Aug 09 15:38:20 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1810. [Sun Aug 09 15:39:07 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Is RoP voting?'
  1811. [Sun Aug 09 15:39:16 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'RoP had to step away I believe'
  1812. [Sun Aug 09 15:39:22 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'he called afk'
  1813. [Sun Aug 09 15:39:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Would consider them an abstain'
  1814. [Sun Aug 09 15:39:38 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  1815. [Sun Aug 09 15:39:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Will mark them abstain, 9 for, 1 against, passes'
  1816. [Sun Aug 09 15:40:08 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ty'
  1817. [Sun Aug 09 15:40:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The Council now recognizes FP as a member of the rotation, vote pass, congrats.'
  1818. [Sun Aug 09 15:40:28 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'grats'
  1819. [Sun Aug 09 15:40:34 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Let the record Show that <False Prophecy> is now on the rotation'
  1820. [Sun Aug 09 15:40:36 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, '(first of many members i hope)'
  1821. [Sun Aug 09 15:40:39 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Congratulations'
  1822. [Sun Aug 09 15:40:58 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'congratulations'
  1823. [Sun Aug 09 15:41:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anybody else have any topics to address related to the gatekeepers before we move on'
  1824. [Sun Aug 09 15:41:23 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there was a part of the proposal about guilds giving away mobs that didn't get addressed'
  1825. [Sun Aug 09 15:41:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, We need to close up a vote on raid targets quick'
  1826. [Sun Aug 09 15:41:38 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'guilds that kill gatekeepers from now on will automatically be added to the rotation once greenlit?'
  1827. [Sun Aug 09 15:41:38 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yeah a couple backups to handled quickly I think'
  1828. [Sun Aug 09 15:41:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ah sorry'
  1829. [Sun Aug 09 15:41:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'backup'
  1830. [Sun Aug 09 15:41:48 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'without vote?'
  1831. [Sun Aug 09 15:41:50 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, the FFA given away mobs to act as rotation classifiers in important '
  1832. [Sun Aug 09 15:42:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, let me double check, I believe you get added to the end of the next cycle'
  1833. [Sun Aug 09 15:42:15 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this rotation isn't in effect'
  1834. [Sun Aug 09 15:42:27 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It still has cycles'
  1835. [Sun Aug 09 15:42:49 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yea, but I'm guessing once it goes live, all guilds that have qualified are added to the first cycle of it?'
  1836. [Sun Aug 09 15:43:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Right, and we'll need to create a cycle order before we finish today'
  1837. [Sun Aug 09 15:43:17 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'After that, guilds are added to the end of the cycle'
  1838. [Sun Aug 09 15:43:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Guilds that kill gatekeepers without outside assistance wbe added to the rotation when screenshot is provided to the Council'
  1839. [Sun Aug 09 15:43:31 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Traditionally the end of the following full cycle'
  1840. [Sun Aug 09 15:43:47 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yea, sounds good'
  1841. [Sun Aug 09 15:43:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Guilds that kill gatekeepers without outside assistance will be added to the rotation when screenshot is provided to the Council yes/no'
  1842. [Sun Aug 09 15:44:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote Now'
  1843. [Sun Aug 09 15:44:22 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1844. [Sun Aug 09 15:44:23 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  1845. [Sun Aug 09 15:44:25 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1846. [Sun Aug 09 15:44:35 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  1847. [Sun Aug 09 15:44:43 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <False Prophecy>'
  1848. [Sun Aug 09 15:44:46 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no <caf>'
  1849. [Sun Aug 09 15:44:47 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TLG>'
  1850. [Sun Aug 09 15:44:55 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes >RoE<'
  1851. [Sun Aug 09 15:45:10 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Rosengard>'
  1852. [Sun Aug 09 15:45:18 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1853. [Sun Aug 09 15:45:28 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I motion that the screenshot provided have the serverwide message / corpse / and time (/time) in the screenshot for verification purposes'
  1854. [Sun Aug 09 15:45:44 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and be unedited'
  1855. [Sun Aug 09 15:46:07 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds good to me'
  1856. [Sun Aug 09 15:46:10 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'would anyone really try and chea the system like that?'
  1857. [Sun Aug 09 15:46:17 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'bonlgon would'
  1858. [Sun Aug 09 15:46:19 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you would be amazed'
  1859. [Sun Aug 09 15:46:26 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'then yes, i agree hah'
  1860. [Sun Aug 09 15:46:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote passes with 9 for, 1 against, 1 abstain (absent)'
  1861. [Sun Aug 09 15:47:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, great. We agree that Guilds that kill gatekeepers without outside assistance will be added to the rotation when screenshot is provided to the Council'
  1862. [Sun Aug 09 15:47:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote on man's amend'
  1863. [Sun Aug 09 15:47:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'actually i need a second'
  1864. [Sun Aug 09 15:47:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'on that'
  1865. [Sun Aug 09 15:47:50 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you americans and your crazy seconding'
  1866. [Sun Aug 09 15:47:59 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second'
  1867. [Sun Aug 09 15:48:00 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i second'
  1868. [Sun Aug 09 15:48:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, Manvaril proposes that the screenshot provided as evidence must contain the serverwide message, corpse, and time verification purposes. yes/no'
  1869. [Sun Aug 09 15:48:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote Now'
  1870. [Sun Aug 09 15:48:50 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1871. [Sun Aug 09 15:48:54 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1872. [Sun Aug 09 15:48:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  1873. [Sun Aug 09 15:48:55 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes Tempus'
  1874. [Sun Aug 09 15:48:56 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes FP'
  1875. [Sun Aug 09 15:49:03 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Rosengard>'
  1876. [Sun Aug 09 15:49:13 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no<caf> Kos and SL dont show serverwide'
  1877. [Sun Aug 09 15:49:15 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseeless>'
  1878. [Sun Aug 09 15:49:41 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <RoE<'
  1879. [Sun Aug 09 15:49:58 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes < TLG>'
  1880. [Sun Aug 09 15:50:13 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'One more thing to w rap up on gatekeepers (hang in there guys). '
  1881. [Sun Aug 09 15:50:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'How are gatekeepers to be scheduled with no FFA slots? discuss'
  1882. [Sun Aug 09 15:50:40 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Saytonic does have a point, does this need to be addressed with a revote or can we just clarify serviders if the mob offers one'
  1883. [Sun Aug 09 15:50:42 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'they are not.. why we put in kos and SL'
  1884. [Sun Aug 09 15:50:49 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sky, 24h notice (limited 1/week)'
  1885. [Sun Aug 09 15:50:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If there is no objection I will clarify the vote'
  1886. [Sun Aug 09 15:51:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'please'
  1887. [Sun Aug 09 15:51:03 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'im sure we can verify if a screenshot is alternate or not'
  1888. [Sun Aug 09 15:51:24 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Two gatekeepers are always FFA'
  1889. [Sun Aug 09 15:51:29 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'SL KoS should be enough with everything else'
  1890. [Sun Aug 09 15:51:38 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'on the SS'
  1891. [Sun Aug 09 15:51:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but we added naggy/vox/inny/'
  1892. [Sun Aug 09 15:51:55 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'they have server announces'
  1893. [Sun Aug 09 15:52:04 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'KoS and SL are always FFA, the rotation mobs will be FFA during the off hours of rotation'
  1894. [Sun Aug 09 15:52:16 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ah I get it. Ok, great'
  1895. [Sun Aug 09 15:52:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Moving on.'
  1896. [Sun Aug 09 15:52:36 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Actually'
  1897. [Sun Aug 09 15:52:37 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ie 1-9am'
  1898. [Sun Aug 09 15:52:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'vote passes 9 for, 1 against, 1 abstain (absent)'
  1899. [Sun Aug 09 15:52:50 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'on SL KoS, a list of the DT's would be handy'
  1900. [Sun Aug 09 15:53:10 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'since that's an easy way to spot if magearmying if you have outsiders there'
  1901. [Sun Aug 09 15:53:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Have to wrap #6 real quick. We need to vote what constitutes a pass and a f ail.'
  1902. [Sun Aug 09 15:54:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Right now there is no penalty for failing so'
  1903. [Sun Aug 09 15:54:18 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I would say if you don't kill it yourself or pass it forward, its a fail, no big deal'
  1904. [Sun Aug 09 15:54:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok. So table this until a fail trigger matters?'
  1905. [Sun Aug 09 15:55:02 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I am fine with that but others may have input'
  1906. [Sun Aug 09 15:55:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Just wrapping it up for completeness sake.'
  1907. [Sun Aug 09 15:55:14 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Before we move on, we still have not addressed whether or not guilds can give away their mobs'
  1908. [Sun Aug 09 15:55:15 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it would only be used for excluding guilds that are inactive'
  1909. [Sun Aug 09 15:55:16 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would say if you engage at all - and die thats a fail - if you dont .attempt (Pass) '
  1910. [Sun Aug 09 15:55:38 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Passing would probably be more lenient in my eyes since it's nice way to tell another guild to be ready'
  1911. [Sun Aug 09 15:55:39 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'On the past agreement I was marking things as assigned kills, failed kills, traded kills, and FFA kills'
  1912. [Sun Aug 09 15:56:09 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The vote for trading failed without any consensus, and the provision in the accepted proposal only allows a guild to pass it forward to the next guild'
  1913. [Sun Aug 09 15:56:19 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'would a failed kill simply being unable to kill the boss in your 3 hour windows with actual attempts?'
  1914. [Sun Aug 09 15:56:32 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Khore, yes unless you passed it forward'
  1915. [Sun Aug 09 15:56:38 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right'
  1916. [Sun Aug 09 15:56:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The forward guild must accept the pass though'
  1917. [Sun Aug 09 15:57:01 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can i pass to whomever the hell i want'
  1918. [Sun Aug 09 15:57:10 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Again there is currently no penalty though this is data we may use in the future, so it's discouarged to fail but right now it doesnt matter'
  1919. [Sun Aug 09 15:57:26 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'to next in line it seems'
  1920. [Sun Aug 09 15:57:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'You can but if they accept it and aren't the guild up next they will be in violation of the agreement'
  1921. [Sun Aug 09 15:57:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'A pass is to the next person in rotation. A trade is to somebody not next in line.'
  1922. [Sun Aug 09 15:57:49 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Which is a long way to say, not right now'
  1923. [Sun Aug 09 15:58:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does that clear up your questions, Ryan?'
  1924. [Sun Aug 09 15:58:25 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think it's clear that trading will be discussed and voted on during a future meeting but their was no consensus during this meeting, it was a very split vote'
  1925. [Sun Aug 09 15:58:39 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no it doesn't'
  1926. [Sun Aug 09 15:58:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You can currently pass, and trade.'
  1927. [Sun Aug 09 15:59:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'With the stipulation that it hasnt been 22 hours since last mob death.'
  1928. [Sun Aug 09 15:59:26 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What is your question?'
  1929. [Sun Aug 09 15:59:35 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'my question is not on a pass. I am saying if TL has a mob on their time slot, and they want to give it to me even though they are more than capable of killing it, are they able to do that (Names only used as a reference)'
  1930. [Sun Aug 09 15:59:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Let me paste the rules from the proposal accepted and from the minutes'
  1931. [Sun Aug 09 15:59:48 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '3) So long as 22 hours have not passed since a rotated mobs previous death, guilds are permitted to pass their spot on the rotation to the next guild in line (the other guild must acknowledge this transfer otherwise the transfer is deemed void).'
  1932. [Sun Aug 09 15:59:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'this covers passing, not trading'
  1933. [Sun Aug 09 16:00:05 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'a. Should guilds be able to trade spots in the rotation? {Vote} Yes Tempus Evening Reign False Prophecy No Rosengard Darkwind Twisted Legacy Reign of Eternity Ceaseless The Last Guardian Canadian Armed Forces Abstain Remnants of Prexus Vote failed without a 2/3 majority.'
  1934. [Sun Aug 09 16:00:15 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I am not asking about passing or trading'
  1935. [Sun Aug 09 16:00:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So can you receive a spawn without giving anything in return'
  1936. [Sun Aug 09 16:00:53 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Are you saying we should create a new category called giving, in addition to passing and trading?'
  1937. [Sun Aug 09 16:01:22 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no'
  1938. [Sun Aug 09 16:01:30 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'In the original proposal my Marthisdil, it stated KoS/SL, and ALL Rotation mobs would be gatekeepers. FFA or given from other guilds. The given part was stripped off and it was said we would revisit, but we have yet to do so'
  1939. [Sun Aug 09 16:02:15 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'OK I think we misunderstood and were focused on the FFA part'
  1940. [Sun Aug 09 16:02:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '(I was)'
  1941. [Sun Aug 09 16:02:29 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I am asking if a guild is allowed to give another guild, even if not on rotation, that mob without simply passing it to the next guild in line'
  1942. [Sun Aug 09 16:02:53 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'in doing so, it would count as if they themselves had killed it, and they would thus move to the back of the line'
  1943. [Sun Aug 09 16:03:47 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i would say yes'
  1944. [Sun Aug 09 16:03:48 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think you will need to make a motion to add a clause for that'
  1945. [Sun Aug 09 16:03:49 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'on that'
  1946. [Sun Aug 09 16:03:53 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we voted no to trading'
  1947. [Sun Aug 09 16:04:02 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or actually, er'
  1948. [Sun Aug 09 16:04:04 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I did, it got skipped over'
  1949. [Sun Aug 09 16:04:06 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we failed to vote anything on trading'
  1950. [Sun Aug 09 16:04:08 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Because currently it conflicts with the trading/passing rules'
  1951. [Sun Aug 09 16:04:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'a. Should guilds be able to trade spots in the rotation? {Vote} Yes Tempus Evening Reign False Prophecy No Rosengard Darkwind Twisted Legacy Reign of Eternity Ceaseless The Last Guardian Canadian Armed Forces Abstain Remnants of Prexus Vote failed without a 2/3 majority.'
  1952. [Sun Aug 09 16:04:35 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Proposal - Guilds can give away their mobs with the caveat that it will count as their attempt and not a pass, and they will move to the back of the line'
  1953. [Sun Aug 09 16:04:50 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  1954. [Sun Aug 09 16:05:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Voteing to allow guilds to give away their mobs with the caveat that it will count as their attempt and not a pass, and that they will move to the back of the rotation yes/no'
  1955. [Sun Aug 09 16:05:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote Now'
  1956. [Sun Aug 09 16:05:32 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  1957. [Sun Aug 09 16:05:35 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1958. [Sun Aug 09 16:05:40 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1959. [Sun Aug 09 16:05:47 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no <Darkwind>'
  1960. [Sun Aug 09 16:06:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'And I'm sure Jain well edit my typo ;)'
  1961. [Sun Aug 09 16:06:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Twisted Legacy>'
  1962. [Sun Aug 09 16:06:28 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <False Prophecy>'
  1963. [Sun Aug 09 16:06:30 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no -Canadian Armed F0rces-'
  1964. [Sun Aug 09 16:06:34 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Remnants of Prexus>'
  1965. [Sun Aug 09 16:06:38 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <TLG>'
  1966. [Sun Aug 09 16:07:01 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no <Rosengard>'
  1967. [Sun Aug 09 16:07:13 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i am curious as to why people are opposed to this?'
  1968. [Sun Aug 09 16:07:34 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'too much admin - and loophole / bullshit'
  1969. [Sun Aug 09 16:07:44 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'very well'
  1970. [Sun Aug 09 16:08:02 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '3 Yes, 7 against, 1 abstain (absent), vote fails short of 2/3 majority'
  1971. [Sun Aug 09 16:08:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Bonlogn has to leave in a few minutes, lets move on and wrap up these last few items quick'
  1972. [Sun Aug 09 16:08:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Next Item: Process of making amendments to the rotation:'
  1973. [Sun Aug 09 16:08:51 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'standard 2/3rds majority vote?'
  1974. [Sun Aug 09 16:09:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'How are amendments made? Options 1:) They can only be made during Council meetings. 2) Adendments can be made outside of meetings w ith approval from ALL members (with notifications to officers). 3) Amendments can be made outside of the council meetings with a majority vote (an dnotifications to officers)'
  1975. [Sun Aug 09 16:10:26 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anybody have any options to add or change for amendments?'
  1976. [Sun Aug 09 16:10:38 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Add a timespan to #2'
  1977. [Sun Aug 09 16:10:56 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i assume ammendments can be made during meetings regardless of this vote?'
  1978. [Sun Aug 09 16:10:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'How are amendments made? Options 1:) They can only be made during Council meetings. 2) Adendments can be made outside of meetings w ith approval from ALL members (with notifications to officers). 3) Amendments can be made outside of the council meetings with a majority vote (an dnotifications to officers)'
  1979. [Sun Aug 09 16:10:58 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would like to see a standing time to have meetings to present proposals for approval. All submissions must be posted at least 3 days prior to scheduled meeting to be considered at taht meeting'
  1980. [Sun Aug 09 16:11:19 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would say a week'
  1981. [Sun Aug 09 16:11:32 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if it's once a month, then that would be when you coudl present your proposal'
  1982. [Sun Aug 09 16:11:33 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so counter proposals etc can be made and discussed properly'
  1983. [Sun Aug 09 16:11:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Part of the kunark topic (last on our list) is when the n ext meeting will take place. I guess i'd just like clarification as to how they take place outside of normally scheduled meetings for expansions'
  1984. [Sun Aug 09 16:12:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there will certainly be amendments needed'
  1985. [Sun Aug 09 16:12:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'in between meetings'
  1986. [Sun Aug 09 16:12:11 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, '#2 with 1 week advance notice to wrap something up should be fine'
  1987. [Sun Aug 09 16:12:37 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if we go #2, we're giving veto power'
  1988. [Sun Aug 09 16:12:42 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'actually'
  1989. [Sun Aug 09 16:12:47 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yup'
  1990. [Sun Aug 09 16:12:49 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I dont think they shoiuld be exclusive'
  1991. [Sun Aug 09 16:12:53 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Ryan is correct'
  1992. [Sun Aug 09 16:12:58 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, '1 and 3 should be voted on'
  1993. [Sun Aug 09 16:13:02 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would say #2 shoudl be either outside with ALL, or at a meeting with normal rules'
  1994. [Sun Aug 09 16:13:04 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 should be an option'
  1995. [Sun Aug 09 16:13:09 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but that is only for ammendments made outside of the meetings, correct?'
  1996. [Sun Aug 09 16:13:14 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I wourld want these meetings to take place on sunday, and hopefully not for eight hours again. Some time early am pst. 3 days adv notice should be more then enough imo.'
  1997. [Sun Aug 09 16:13:25 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we already passed 2/3rds to make changes'
  1998. [Sun Aug 09 16:13:27 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that is, if we find some shit that needs fixing and all agree with it, there doesn't need to be a meeting'
  1999. [Sun Aug 09 16:13:32 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so really its just an extra modification?'
  2000. [Sun Aug 09 16:13:50 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'is that to me First?'
  2001. [Sun Aug 09 16:13:51 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Future meetings should not take this long, perhaps a long one per expansion, but still not this long'
  2002. [Sun Aug 09 16:13:59 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it's pretty much what qualifies as an assembly capable of making decisions'
  2003. [Sun Aug 09 16:14:23 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'which should always be warned in good time ahead with an outline'
  2004. [Sun Aug 09 16:14:24 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We do need to determine a way to make decisions outside of a meeting'
  2005. [Sun Aug 09 16:14:35 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'But, is it 2/3 of all Members, or 2/3 of whatever members you can squeeze into a channel at a particular time?'
  2006. [Sun Aug 09 16:14:38 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorta thinking out loud, but yes'
  2007. [Sun Aug 09 16:14:44 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It's 2/3rds of all members'
  2008. [Sun Aug 09 16:14:46 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We also need a way to get fast answers to rule questions, even if those are overturned at the next meeting'
  2009. [Sun Aug 09 16:14:53 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if 4 guilds are absent, we cannot currently decide anything'
  2010. [Sun Aug 09 16:15:00 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I have no issue with #2, but if that's what we decide, then there is a possibility that someone could simply decide to hold the process hostage from the verbiage is all I"m saying'
  2011. [Sun Aug 09 16:15:12 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, '#2 should be moved to a seperate vote'
  2012. [Sun Aug 09 16:15:16 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and held as an option'
  2013. [Sun Aug 09 16:15:27 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We also dont want to decide major changes with out must of the guilds being active, its why I would be ok with weekly meetings to adjust the rotation as needed.'
  2014. [Sun Aug 09 16:15:32 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if ALL agrees to something, it can be changed.'
  2015. [Sun Aug 09 16:15:35 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We can maintain a channel for on the fly rules questions'
  2016. [Sun Aug 09 16:15:35 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think we can strike #2'
  2017. [Sun Aug 09 16:15:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Since we agreed a majority vote can make decisions'
  2018. [Sun Aug 09 16:16:13 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well, on a council meeting'
  2019. [Sun Aug 09 16:16:19 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no?'
  2020. [Sun Aug 09 16:16:19 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so this is now a yes/no of decisions being made outside of meetings?'
  2021. [Sun Aug 09 16:16:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think so yeah'
  2022. [Sun Aug 09 16:16:44 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Otherwise, if you talk with 7 other guilds, you could change stuff without the other 3 having a chance to respond to it?'
  2023. [Sun Aug 09 16:16:58 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'good point zantosa'
  2024. [Sun Aug 09 16:16:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If we run into a rule conflict, we can't put the rotation on old for 4 days til the next meeting'
  2025. [Sun Aug 09 16:17:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Right, there has to be some sort of emergency update power'
  2026. [Sun Aug 09 16:17:30 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would also ask that the proposal be on the forums for that same week, and that we signed as a vote similar to the consensus vote on the proposal itself'
  2027. [Sun Aug 09 16:17:33 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Well, you need some advance warning so everyoen can attend'
  2028. [Sun Aug 09 16:17:35 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Zant also has a good point so probably for most rules a certain period of notice should be given before the change takes place'
  2029. [Sun Aug 09 16:17:36 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'rules questions, and changing the rotation are not the same'
  2030. [Sun Aug 09 16:17:52 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Agreed Sag'
  2031. [Sun Aug 09 16:18:19 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'honestly, only the advancely warned assembly where everyone has a cahnce to attende should be able to make changes'
  2032. [Sun Aug 09 16:18:27 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'other things leads to coups!'
  2033. [Sun Aug 09 16:18:31 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if there is an emergency meeting that needs to happen, maybe that's a separate issue and is dealt with as a different line item as far as what consitutes ample notice'
  2034. [Sun Aug 09 16:18:39 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thoughts - use this chat channel, 2/3rds of online member guilds to approve a temp change, ratification and/or change required next formal meeting with 2/3rds, or 100&PCT; on ragefireforums?'
  2035. [Sun Aug 09 16:19:02 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'define temp change?'
  2036. [Sun Aug 09 16:19:10 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 days duration?'
  2037. [Sun Aug 09 16:19:14 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'in effect until a council meeting i'd say'
  2038. [Sun Aug 09 16:19:17 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i have added the channel to autojoin'
  2039. [Sun Aug 09 16:19:18 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we discover a loophole in the rules that needs to be addressed'
  2040. [Sun Aug 09 16:19:28 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, '2/3 of online members? what if im the only one online?'
  2041. [Sun Aug 09 16:19:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Random example.'
  2042. [Sun Aug 09 16:19:40 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not online, never online'
  2043. [Sun Aug 09 16:19:42 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'in effect until council meeting or ragefireforums'
  2044. [Sun Aug 09 16:19:48 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you need 2/3rds of the council'
  2045. [Sun Aug 09 16:19:54 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i would say a temp/emergency implementation should be vlid for 72 hours from the time of the passing vote. that way, notice can be given to all member guilds so it can be hashed out in an emergency meeting if needed'
  2046. [Sun Aug 09 16:20:02 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'at 5am, theres going to be 1-3 members online'
  2047. [Sun Aug 09 16:20:12 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or I'm staying up until no one else is and then I'm changing the rules straight off p'
  2048. [Sun Aug 09 16:20:15 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'chat channel 2/3rds of online members (at least 3)'
  2049. [Sun Aug 09 16:20:19 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'however, how quickly an "emergency" needs to be dealth with is debatable'
  2050. [Sun Aug 09 16:20:21 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We just dont want our own dima 3am rotation adjustment on ragefire'
  2051. [Sun Aug 09 16:20:31 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'currently 8 guilds needed to approve'
  2052. [Sun Aug 09 16:20:33 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lol sag - good point :)'
  2053. [Sun Aug 09 16:20:41 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'let's not make it so it can be couped in the middle of the night'
  2054. [Sun Aug 09 16:21:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd like to add the clause that at least one officer has to be present for a change to be made. To prevent handpicking the 2/3 of voters.'
  2055. [Sun Aug 09 16:21:12 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that would require changing a fundamental rule, which shouldnt be possible, it is merely a clarification'
  2056. [Sun Aug 09 16:21:14 2015] Sagnid tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if we require some sort of adv notice, 12 hours or so. That wourld prevent anyone from screwing the rest.'
  2057. [Sun Aug 09 16:21:39 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we had a good example last night actually'
  2058. [Sun Aug 09 16:21:43 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no decisions can currently be made without 8 votes for it'
  2059. [Sun Aug 09 16:22:11 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you can get that, surely a temp fix until a meeting a few days later can be arranged is fine'
  2060. [Sun Aug 09 16:22:22 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'how about this'
  2061. [Sun Aug 09 16:23:16 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Emergency Rules Clarification - 1) 2/3rd vote (at least 3 online) of members in channel, 2) immediately posted on forums for 2/3rds temporary approval or revocation, 3) 100&PCT; approval on ragefireforums or 2/3rds at meeting to make formal'
  2062. [Sun Aug 09 16:24:18 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it's 2/3rds of the council to pass a vote, no?'
  2063. [Sun Aug 09 16:24:32 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not present, but of council'
  2064. [Sun Aug 09 16:25:02 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Could run into problems if guilds go AWOL'
  2065. [Sun Aug 09 16:25:09 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  2066. [Sun Aug 09 16:25:23 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that's what having a high &PCT;age does'
  2067. [Sun Aug 09 16:25:43 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this is ONLY to clarify rules 3ppl online cannot CHANGE rules-'
  2068. [Sun Aug 09 16:25:56 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'please remember that'
  2069. [Sun Aug 09 16:25:57 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd say that's fine if there is notice for 2 4hours on forums, but I don't like 2/3 making an emergency decision change'
  2070. [Sun Aug 09 16:26:19 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i like option 3'
  2071. [Sun Aug 09 16:26:33 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '-- I'll hold my tounge'
  2072. [Sun Aug 09 16:26:49 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, '24h is to small, to easy to turn an non-issue into an issue without having time to let people get proof'
  2073. [Sun Aug 09 16:26:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We can use the chat channel as a means to inform everyone of signing off on ragefireforums'
  2074. [Sun Aug 09 16:27:12 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so we should save this chat channel info then?'
  2075. [Sun Aug 09 16:27:21 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I don't liek anything that forces 100&PCT; of anything and never will'
  2076. [Sun Aug 09 16:27:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yeah, for now. It will be useful'
  2077. [Sun Aug 09 16:27:28 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if there are so critical loopholes, shame on us for not catching them.'
  2078. [Sun Aug 09 16:27:47 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lovely can someone PST me wirth the password'
  2079. [Sun Aug 09 16:27:50 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Would prefer not to have any 100&PCT; required stuf'
  2080. [Sun Aug 09 16:27:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'In the unlikely event 1 guild decided to stonewall'
  2081. [Sun Aug 09 16:28:06 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'fuck 100&PCT; Requirement and the Dojii it stands for'
  2082. [Sun Aug 09 16:28:16 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'probably wouldn't ever happen, but it could I suppose'
  2083. [Sun Aug 09 16:28:25 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'To be fair, Apok is not on the council.'
  2084. [Sun Aug 09 16:28:44 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'WTB proof plz'
  2085. [Sun Aug 09 16:28:46 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes tehy are'
  2086. [Sun Aug 09 16:28:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'They are... they just refuse to attend. '
  2087. [Sun Aug 09 16:28:52 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'They aren't participating in this one but they are on the council'
  2088. [Sun Aug 09 16:29:07 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'according to written text, only present guilds got voted in, no?'
  2089. [Sun Aug 09 16:29:23 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'let the reccord Show that Apok is a part of the council they are CHOOSING not to attend'
  2090. [Sun Aug 09 16:29:34 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Chairman called a vote on who can vote in the council Any/all guilds who show up to the meeting Dragoon Order of Veeshan Any guild that has killed the most recent Gatekeeper Apokalypsis Any guild with 36 planar members {that show up to the meeting} The Last Guardian Darkwind Tempus False Prophecy Ceaseless Twisted Legacy Reign of Eternity Evening Reign Remnants of Prexus Afterlife Rosengard '
  2091. [Sun Aug 09 16:30:08 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'because then you need to add an abtain (absent) vote to all votes ;p'
  2092. [Sun Aug 09 16:30:49 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i believe that is a good point'
  2093. [Sun Aug 09 16:30:51 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'They are on the council when the council meets if they are at the council'
  2094. [Sun Aug 09 16:30:52 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and we're 12, still requires 8 to pass though'
  2095. [Sun Aug 09 16:30:58 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'does it affect any (all) votes?'
  2096. [Sun Aug 09 16:31:02 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no'
  2097. [Sun Aug 09 16:31:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Which I suppose is true of any of us'
  2098. [Sun Aug 09 16:31:26 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it would be wise to include apoks abstain on all except the 1 they participated in'
  2099. [Sun Aug 09 16:31:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Unless I'm messing that up, but I don't really want to scoot back 8 hours'
  2100. [Sun Aug 09 16:31:46 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you're probably correct that they left after first 1-2 votes'
  2101. [Sun Aug 09 16:32:01 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'should add their abstain (absent) to all votes though to clarify they are a member'
  2102. [Sun Aug 09 16:32:13 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, '^'
  2103. [Sun Aug 09 16:32:26 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or note the time they left'
  2104. [Sun Aug 09 16:32:27 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I can do that'
  2105. [Sun Aug 09 16:32:36 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'both imo'
  2106. [Sun Aug 09 16:32:46 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'actually jain'
  2107. [Sun Aug 09 16:32:58 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm not sure that being absent should equal abstaining though'
  2108. [Sun Aug 09 16:33:00 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i dont think they made it that far in the vote'
  2109. [Sun Aug 09 16:33:06 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it should not'
  2110. [Sun Aug 09 16:33:19 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think abstaining is when you vote to abstain'
  2111. [Sun Aug 09 16:33:19 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Well, they are abstaining'
  2112. [Sun Aug 09 16:33:28 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If you just check out, that's different'
  2113. [Sun Aug 09 16:33:30 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the afk dude was abstaining'
  2114. [Sun Aug 09 16:33:35 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'without voting abstain'
  2115. [Sun Aug 09 16:33:42 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd prefer those were not considered abstain votes either'
  2116. [Sun Aug 09 16:33:57 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no vote (absent) works too'
  2117. [Sun Aug 09 16:34:12 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'suggestion'
  2118. [Sun Aug 09 16:34:17 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The challenge in my mind is there may be other guilds which can field 36 planar members'
  2119. [Sun Aug 09 16:34:25 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We aren't adding them to all the abstain votes either'
  2120. [Sun Aug 09 16:34:31 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'should we amend removing guilds to include a guild who fails to make X number of meetings?'
  2121. [Sun Aug 09 16:34:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think we should make it a 2/3 forum vote. We've been prettty good about getting a representaitive from any of the guilds in here'
  2122. [Sun Aug 09 16:34:37 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'they weren't present at this meeting'
  2123. [Sun Aug 09 16:34:41 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'because they were not present to be counted as member?'
  2124. [Sun Aug 09 16:34:48 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'an abstain isny the same as not being present and not voting'
  2125. [Sun Aug 09 16:35:01 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'an abstension is a vote of some sort'
  2126. [Sun Aug 09 16:35:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree, so I'm saying, when they aren't at the council, they aren't a council member'
  2127. [Sun Aug 09 16:35:05 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you cant abstain if you dont attend'
  2128. [Sun Aug 09 16:35:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'should be able to get one of the guild reps to post , and if its on the forums, the other 4 members will see it'
  2129. [Sun Aug 09 16:35:08 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'youre "not present"'
  2130. [Sun Aug 09 16:35:18 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'There needs to be some sort of emergency safety switches btw'
  2131. [Sun Aug 09 16:35:46 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'to avoid 4 more guilds not attending and no votes being able to be cast'
  2132. [Sun Aug 09 16:36:01 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  2133. [Sun Aug 09 16:36:15 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'without being able to use easily to change shit up'
  2134. [Sun Aug 09 16:36:26 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that was specifically covered, that only those present would count toward the vote if Im' not mistaken'
  2135. [Sun Aug 09 16:36:28 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Perhaps in the event of enough abstain votes a 51&PCT; majority could work'
  2136. [Sun Aug 09 16:36:44 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Doesn't completely feel right tho'
  2137. [Sun Aug 09 16:36:55 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'discuss? - absence of 4 properly posted meetings (no more than 1/week) - automatic removal'
  2138. [Sun Aug 09 16:37:00 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as from what I understood, the vote was for 2/3rds of the council'
  2139. [Sun Aug 09 16:37:11 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not present (because present is dangerous, dangerous)'
  2140. [Sun Aug 09 16:37:13 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well, make enough notice and if they can't get a rep here, they don't get a vote. I don't see an issue with that at all'
  2141. [Sun Aug 09 16:37:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think that's fair, First'
  2142. [Sun Aug 09 16:37:20 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yea'
  2143. [Sun Aug 09 16:37:20 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Honestly I think the history of human government shows that there are 0 systems immune to abuse, if we came up with something here in EverQuest we would be making history'
  2144. [Sun Aug 09 16:37:29 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'put all meetings midnight EST'
  2145. [Sun Aug 09 16:37:32 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you wont see darkwind here'
  2146. [Sun Aug 09 16:37:51 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you wont see me here :)'
  2147. [Sun Aug 09 16:37:51 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it needs to be present or not'
  2148. [Sun Aug 09 16:38:38 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if i get 48houers notice i can be on past midnight'
  2149. [Sun Aug 09 16:38:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what if members have power to enforce a 2/3 vote, but then have a 24 hour revokation period if the vote somehow ends up in a fail after 24 hours'
  2150. [Sun Aug 09 16:39:08 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Exclusion by non-attending is one way'
  2151. [Sun Aug 09 16:39:22 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but it gets messy really quick'
  2152. [Sun Aug 09 16:39:33 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we move on a vote please, we have been at this for almost 9 hours'
  2153. [Sun Aug 09 16:39:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If we could agree on a vote, we would !'
  2154. [Sun Aug 09 16:40:16 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lay it out then'
  2155. [Sun Aug 09 16:40:32 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well, it's really between only do changes when a properly announced meeting is taking place or whenever 2/3rds of the council members can conspire up something?'
  2156. [Sun Aug 09 16:40:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Proposed: 2/3 of all active members (not online) agree to the vote, and it is posted on the forums'
  2157. [Sun Aug 09 16:40:53 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I am fine to table this and say, try it for a week, next week vote on if anything should have been changed and we messed ourselves up by not allowing it'
  2158. [Sun Aug 09 16:41:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Honesetly, I can probably come up with a process with a few hours of sleep, but my mind is shutting down on me here. I agree with table.'
  2159. [Sun Aug 09 16:41:35 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agree'
  2160. [Sun Aug 09 16:41:40 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'im fine with that'
  2161. [Sun Aug 09 16:41:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No changes are able to be made until we figure it out.'
  2162. [Sun Aug 09 16:41:46 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'how about we not make changes unless we are in the council meeting or it is posted on the forums with everyone agreeing'
  2163. [Sun Aug 09 16:41:47 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i dont think we'll lose 2/3rds in a week'
  2164. [Sun Aug 09 16:41:47 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'me too'
  2165. [Sun Aug 09 16:42:04 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'incorrect, we already approved 2/3 change at a meeting'
  2166. [Sun Aug 09 16:42:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I motion to table the topic of amending the rotation until a later date.'
  2167. [Sun Aug 09 16:42:06 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well'
  2168. [Sun Aug 09 16:42:22 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  2169. [Sun Aug 09 16:42:24 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second'
  2170. [Sun Aug 09 16:42:27 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we vote on to keep council membership, you need to attend next meeting?'
  2171. [Sun Aug 09 16:42:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'That's covered soon'
  2172. [Sun Aug 09 16:42:50 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that way it sorts itself out'
  2173. [Sun Aug 09 16:42:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 quick points left'
  2174. [Sun Aug 09 16:43:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Next item is in regards to Kunark'
  2175. [Sun Aug 09 16:43:16 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I motion to table page 4 Kunark and beyond till after the DBG vote for Kunark'
  2176. [Sun Aug 09 16:43:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Kunark FFA Period: How long should the FFA period be on Kunark Raid Mobs'
  2177. [Sun Aug 09 16:43:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '1) 3 weeks, 2) 4 Weeks, 3) 5 Weeks'
  2178. [Sun Aug 09 16:43:30 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'isn't first question, should there be a FFA period? p'
  2179. [Sun Aug 09 16:43:39 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'any changes to be made to the options?'
  2180. [Sun Aug 09 16:43:43 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I motion to table page 4 Kunark and beyond till after the DBG vote for Kunark'
  2181. [Sun Aug 09 16:44:09 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we will have 1 week or so after they post vote results (or less) before kunark lands'
  2182. [Sun Aug 09 16:44:18 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'That votes assumes there's a consensus for a FFA period (which I can see perks off)'
  2183. [Sun Aug 09 16:44:20 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Marth that is not correct'
  2184. [Sun Aug 09 16:44:26 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i say rotation from the start lol'
  2185. [Sun Aug 09 16:44:26 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'depends on how long it takes them to massage the numbers'
  2186. [Sun Aug 09 16:44:27 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The poll ends at midnight'
  2187. [Sun Aug 09 16:44:34 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but we haven't yet decided on that?'
  2188. [Sun Aug 09 16:44:35 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Within 1 hour it unlocks if it passes'
  2189. [Sun Aug 09 16:44:44 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i know when the poll ends....but it's DB - which i have no faith in when it comes to polls'
  2190. [Sun Aug 09 16:44:54 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but if true jain, that makes it worse.'
  2191. [Sun Aug 09 16:45:02 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so we have ot have some basis for the start just in case'
  2192. [Sun Aug 09 16:45:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'On Fippy this is how it occurred for some 5 expansions'
  2193. [Sun Aug 09 16:45:10 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'good enough then'
  2194. [Sun Aug 09 16:45:17 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'marthis, the end of vote unlocks kunark immediately (or when dbg comes in monday to turn it on)'
  2195. [Sun Aug 09 16:45:25 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It is a horrible system, but it's what we're working with'
  2196. [Sun Aug 09 16:45:27 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'understood thx'
  2197. [Sun Aug 09 16:45:33 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry distracted'
  2198. [Sun Aug 09 16:45:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm ok with tabling the Kunark items Marth, with the stipulation we meet a week prior to unlock vote'
  2199. [Sun Aug 09 16:45:47 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I motion to table Kunark and beyond till after the DBG vote (before the results)'
  2200. [Sun Aug 09 16:46:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Isn't it immediately enacted after the vote?'
  2201. [Sun Aug 09 16:46:20 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'man - if what first/jain are saying, there won't be posted results'
  2202. [Sun Aug 09 16:46:28 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it'll just happen'
  2203. [Sun Aug 09 16:46:38 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'For reference, the Kunark vote will begin August 24th and conclude at midnight September 6th . If it passes, Kunark unlocks that night. If it fails, we repeated another 2 week voting period. Rinse and repeat until it passes.'
  2204. [Sun Aug 09 16:46:45 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'k'
  2205. [Sun Aug 09 16:47:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So we need to meet at the end of the month'
  2206. [Sun Aug 09 16:47:12 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I motion for the Kunark and beyond to be tabled till the week of the vote'
  2207. [Sun Aug 09 16:47:16 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i'm for tabling it until the week of the 24th, but we MUST have a council meeting to determine and finalize before the end of the vote'
  2208. [Sun Aug 09 16:47:20 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we plan a meeting for that sunday?'
  2209. [Sun Aug 09 16:47:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that works manvaril'
  2210. [Sun Aug 09 16:47:32 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, '24th is a monday'
  2211. [Sun Aug 09 16:47:39 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can i get a second?'
  2212. [Sun Aug 09 16:47:45 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and figuring kunark mobs shouldn't take terribly long'
  2213. [Sun Aug 09 16:47:47 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, '30th is a Sunday, would give us 6 days to nail everything down'
  2214. [Sun Aug 09 16:47:55 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i'll second'
  2215. [Sun Aug 09 16:47:58 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I second'
  2216. [Sun Aug 09 16:48:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Motion to Table the Kunark items until the week of the vote has passed'
  2217. [Sun Aug 09 16:48:20 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sunday is best'
  2218. [Sun Aug 09 16:48:26 2015] Zantosa tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this starting time was decent!'
  2219. [Sun Aug 09 16:48:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd like to make a motion to adjourn the meeting'
  2220. [Sun Aug 09 16:48:42 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Will there be a meeting in between?'
  2221. [Sun Aug 09 16:48:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we will be in touch im sure'
  2222. [Sun Aug 09 16:48:53 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'think we should reword that'
  2223. [Sun Aug 09 16:49:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'reword what'
  2224. [Sun Aug 09 16:49:09 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'before we adjourn'
  2225. [Sun Aug 09 16:49:18 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i'd like to thank Thalanos for stepping in to moderate'
  2226. [Sun Aug 09 16:49:34 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'motion to 1) schedule next meeting for sunday @ 10am eastern after DBG approves (or if), and 2) to schedule kunark discussion for no later than the sunday @10am eastern the week voting starts'
  2227. [Sun Aug 09 16:49:35 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'aye'
  2228. [Sun Aug 09 16:49:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no problem man. Been a long day, hopefully my typos didnt hinder progress :/'
  2229. [Sun Aug 09 16:49:51 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, HUGE thank you to both Tahlanos and Jain for doing the hardest part'
  2230. [Sun Aug 09 16:49:56 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yea thanks'
  2231. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:02 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thalanos has no horse in this race'
  2232. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:02 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'id liek to thank thalanos, not jain though'
  2233. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:07 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ty thalanos'
  2234. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:12 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hes just doing it because hes upstanding'
  2235. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:13 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'heh'
  2236. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Your mom already thanked me last night, no worries'
  2237. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:35 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lol'
  2238. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:37 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, '<3'
  2239. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'motion to strike that comment from the logs!'
  2240. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lol'
  2241. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:45 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thank you for everything gentleman'
  2242. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:45 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, nice work, went real smooth'
  2243. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'second!'
  2244. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:48 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'rofl'
  2245. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:51 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'wow, made it almost 9 hours without a mom joke!'
  2246. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:54 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so are we voting or are we done, haha'
  2247. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:58 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'First- since the vote goes through the 6th,m I say we just schedule the KUnark meeting for 10am est on sept 6th. With agenda points to be posted starting aug 31st (week before) '
  2248. [Sun Aug 09 16:50:58 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the week it starts sounds good'
  2249. [Sun Aug 09 16:51:16 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so we can prepare our self'
  2250. [Sun Aug 09 16:51:18 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'So are we reconvening on the 30th or what, and is that a problem with the way we suspended amending anything heh'
  2251. [Sun Aug 09 16:51:19 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we could even do it sunday the 31st'
  2252. [Sun Aug 09 16:51:23 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I motion for the next meeting to be on the 16th to go over the stuff we did not hash out today and then schedule the kunark stuff for the 23rd'
  2253. [Sun Aug 09 16:51:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i agree with agenda a week before. will save me a big headache. '
  2254. [Sun Aug 09 16:51:37 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or the 30th - that sunday sorry'
  2255. [Sun Aug 09 16:51:40 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would think we;d want to do it before the day of launch, we may not come to agreement and that leaves absolutely no time to come back to things'
  2256. [Sun Aug 09 16:51:49 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'oh, ok, I agree then =)'
  2257. [Sun Aug 09 16:51:53 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, '16th and 30th sound goo'
  2258. [Sun Aug 09 16:51:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'im with Manvaril'
  2259. [Sun Aug 09 16:52:03 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I do have one last thing'
  2260. [Sun Aug 09 16:52:08 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '16th can be a much shorter meeting'
  2261. [Sun Aug 09 16:52:09 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i agree with man'
  2262. [Sun Aug 09 16:52:14 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'and keep kunark tabled through it'
  2263. [Sun Aug 09 16:52:23 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right'
  2264. [Sun Aug 09 16:52:26 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we talked about it on Friday, but I woudl really like to see if we can get a commitment to only using ragefire forums for this discussion'
  2265. [Sun Aug 09 16:52:26 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i cant the 16th, i am out with my sons mom'
  2266. [Sun Aug 09 16:52:28 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so, how about this - Kunark council meeting, 10am est, Sunday August 30th. Agenda points posted on ragefireforums starting sunday august 23rd, Agenda compiled and posted by midnight, Friday Aug 28th'
  2267. [Sun Aug 09 16:52:38 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can i get a second please'
  2268. [Sun Aug 09 16:52:54 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  2269. [Sun Aug 09 16:53:14 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the 30th sounds good'
  2270. [Sun Aug 09 16:54:54 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thalanos'
  2271. [Sun Aug 09 16:54:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Alright. Is everyone good here? First? Jain? Anything to add?'
  2272. [Sun Aug 09 16:54:58 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yeah?'
  2273. [Sun Aug 09 16:55:11 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'did we offiicial decide on 16th and 30th meetings?'
  2274. [Sun Aug 09 16:55:12 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'id like to propose that the next meeting be held int he arena in lake rathe'
  2275. [Sun Aug 09 16:55:15 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we got meeting dates for next meeting and then kunark meeting?'
  2276. [Sun Aug 09 16:55:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I have a screenshot, but Jain im sure is recording logs and will make note.'
  2277. [Sun Aug 09 16:55:49 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Would like to motion that we reconvene 10am est 8/16 for discussin non-kunark remaining items, 10am est 8/30 to discuss kunark anything remaning then, and we adjourn'
  2278. [Sun Aug 09 16:56:01 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  2279. [Sun Aug 09 16:56:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there we go.'
  2280. [Sun Aug 09 16:56:06 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'third'
  2281. [Sun Aug 09 16:56:17 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'fourth'
  2282. [Sun Aug 09 16:56:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'And I motion to Adjourn the meeting :)'
  2283. [Sun Aug 09 16:56:30 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think the kunark meeting should be pushed to the 23rd in case there are disagreements'
  2284. [Sun Aug 09 16:56:50 2015] Khore tells RotationCouncil:4, 'one last thing, where will this be posted, and who is in charge of bringing it to DBG?'
  2285. [Sun Aug 09 16:56:54 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If no objections, the meeting is adjourned and I will post the minutes in the public LDR forums on RF forums once they are cleaned up and reabable'
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