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2015.08.16 Ragefire Leadership Summit Logs

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  1.  
  2. [Sun Aug 16 08:15:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Good morning everyone, lets do roll call.'
  3. [Sun Aug 16 08:15:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'State your name and guild represented.'
  4. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:09 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ryanilin <Tempus>'
  5. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:10 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Saytonic <CaF>'
  6. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:11 2015] Overcast tells RotationCouncil:4, 'overcast- The Last Guardian'
  7. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:19 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Tarri <Ceaseless>'
  8. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:23 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Mylene < Evening Reign >'
  9. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:23 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Marthisdil & Eaza <Remnants of Prexus>'
  10. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:25 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Avatarr <False Prophecy>'
  11. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:26 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Fatherdoom <Apokalypsis>'
  12. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Jain <Twisted Legacy>'
  13. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:32 2015] Syrgen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Syrgen <Darkwind>'
  14. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:35 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Janglespur >Reign of Eternity<'
  15. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:36 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Birkoff Darkwind'
  16. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:37 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Smoelfen <Darkwind>'
  17. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:48 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'First <Twisted Legacy>'
  18. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:50 2015] Evony tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Evony <Twisted Legacy>'
  19. [Sun Aug 16 08:16:51 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Scrubble <Rosengard>'
  20. [Sun Aug 16 08:17:14 2015] Balithzar tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Balithzar <CAF>'
  21. [Sun Aug 16 08:17:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, going to try to move through this one quicker this time guys. We all got things to do, so lets try to keep our discussion concise and move through topics quickly.'
  22. [Sun Aug 16 08:17:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I know we've all got better things to be doing right now.'
  23. [Sun Aug 16 08:18:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you have not, please open the agenda'
  24. [Sun Aug 16 08:18:16 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It's on the public leadership platform'
  25. [Sun Aug 16 08:18:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It is what we're using for this meeting.'
  26. [Sun Aug 16 08:18:46 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Bonlgon <Rosengard>'
  27. [Sun Aug 16 08:19:46 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Leche <CAF>'
  28. [Sun Aug 16 08:19:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Before we get started, with the new items, Jain would like to introduce an old agenda item.'
  29. [Sun Aug 16 08:20:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Jain, please introduce what we need to cover from our last meeting.'
  30. [Sun Aug 16 08:20:53 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'list'
  31. [Sun Aug 16 08:21:10 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The minutes from last meeting missed a vote, we voted on requiring a 2/3 majority to add a guild to the council. It was the last thing I added to the minutes but the PDF I saved was from the save prior'
  32. [Sun Aug 16 08:21:26 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'do we have an agenda?'
  33. [Sun Aug 16 08:21:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It's on the Public leadership platform, Manvaril'
  34. [Sun Aug 16 08:21:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I can cite the lines from the logs if needed, otherwise making a motion to amend the minutes to correctly reflect the vote'
  35. [Sun Aug 16 08:22:04 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Jain, I thought it was agreed upon that all votes would require 2/3? Was I mistaken?'
  36. [Sun Aug 16 08:22:17 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'That's when this came up'
  37. [Sun Aug 16 08:22:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'All votes unless explicitly stated otherwise.'
  38. [Sun Aug 16 08:22:33 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'When we were voting on whether a majority vote was required for acceptance into the council'
  39. [Sun Aug 16 08:22:49 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the next vote was to decide what a majority was i believe'
  40. [Sun Aug 16 08:23:15 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anyone need me to cite the lines from the logs before amending?'
  41. [Sun Aug 16 08:23:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think that's important. We need some sort of governance over the guild size. '
  42. [Sun Aug 16 08:23:30 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please do yes jain'
  43. [Sun Aug 16 08:24:14 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'There is a link to the summit chat logs on the official spreadsheet under the reference tab, for those who are unaware'
  44. [Sun Aug 16 08:24:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'While Jain pulls that up... I'd like to note, for future reference... if you have agenda items, please PM them to me. I've had that asked a few times now.'
  45. [Sun Aug 16 08:24:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'PM them to me prior to meetings that is.'
  46. [Sun Aug 16 08:26:15 2015] Overcast tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we move to the next issue while jain looks it up?'
  47. [Sun Aug 16 08:26:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This vote has already passed, Jain will supply Bon the reference information in a /tell'
  48. [Sun Aug 16 08:26:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Moving on'
  49. [Sun Aug 16 08:26:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'to the first agenda item'
  50. [Sun Aug 16 08:26:58 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I have it'
  51. [Sun Aug 16 08:27:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Line 520: [Sun Aug 09 10:45:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So we now have a new 3A on the agenda: Should addings guilds as a member require a majority vote?''
  52. [Sun Aug 16 08:27:05 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can i get a raid invite as well as Avatarr'
  53. [Sun Aug 16 08:27:25 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Line 540: [Sun Aug 09 10:48:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote is unanimous - 10 votes for, none opposed?''
  54. [Sun Aug 16 08:27:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'You may lookup the intervening lines if you care to see the vote tallies, but I will amend the minutes to reflect including the way guilds votes'
  55. [Sun Aug 16 08:28:12 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Any q uestions, Bon?'
  56. [Sun Aug 16 08:28:13 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Oh sorry, 521: [Sun Aug 09 10:45:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'simple yes/no vote - state your guild with vote. ''
  57. [Sun Aug 16 08:28:43 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'im good'
  58. [Sun Aug 16 08:28:46 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thanks'
  59. [Sun Aug 16 08:28:58 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Thanks everyone'
  60. [Sun Aug 16 08:29:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok. Moving on to Rotation Issues'
  61. [Sun Aug 16 08:29:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'First agenda item: Rotation Time Slot Modifications'
  62. [Sun Aug 16 08:29:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This was brought up by a few guilds. Our rotation is getting congested.'
  63. [Sun Aug 16 08:29:40 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'may i get a raid invite thanks.'
  64. [Sun Aug 16 08:29:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this part of the agenda is to discuss how we can help with that.'
  65. [Sun Aug 16 08:30:12 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'To start off, I'd like to share a quick reminder of what the time slots were created for.'
  66. [Sun Aug 16 08:30:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Your guild should participate in a time slot that you will be able to field most all of the raids in.'
  67. [Sun Aug 16 08:30:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It was not made as a timeslot that you can catch a raid in every once in a while'
  68. [Sun Aug 16 08:31:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Your presence in a timeslot that you will rarely raid in is detrimental to the rotation'
  69. [Sun Aug 16 08:31:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Because you're forcing everyone to wait 3 hours.'
  70. [Sun Aug 16 08:31:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This is not calling out anyone directly'
  71. [Sun Aug 16 08:31:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You're just encouraged to revisit and think on what timeslots your guild is in'
  72. [Sun Aug 16 08:32:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ask yourself Can my guild realistically kill a raid target in these hours ?'
  73. [Sun Aug 16 08:32:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'With that discussion said...'
  74. [Sun Aug 16 08:32:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We'd like to introduce the topic of Primary and Secondary timeslots'
  75. [Sun Aug 16 08:32:50 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Has there been an instance thus far of a mob rotating to a different guild within a primetime slot after 3 hours?'
  76. [Sun Aug 16 08:33:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The purpose behind a primary timeslot is what i mentioned earlier. It's your guild's primary raiding timeslot. There will not be penalizations for failure to kill in this time slot.'
  77. [Sun Aug 16 08:33:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm not sure, I'd have to check kill logs fatherdoom'
  78. [Sun Aug 16 08:33:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'all of this is theoretical. It's hard to gather data on this because the rotation was not randomized'
  79. [Sun Aug 16 08:34:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Which we will get to in a bit'
  80. [Sun Aug 16 08:34:24 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We could change the window times - Changing the slot hours from 11/6/7 to 8/8/8. This makes it an even playing ground for all situations and will force guilds to really choose what time zones they know they can field a raid in. My suggestion would be FFA: 2AM-10AM, Slot A: 10AM-6PM (4PM-12PM Euro), and Slot B: 6PM-2AM. Get rid of all "pushback" windows. '
  81. [Sun Aug 16 08:34:39 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not that im aware father, only apok has been up so far in their timeslot'
  82. [Sun Aug 16 08:35:09 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that sounds reasonable matthias'
  83. [Sun Aug 16 08:35:29 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Would increasing the window times help this or just add to the number of guilds sining up in both slots, hoping for a lucky spawn time?'
  84. [Sun Aug 16 08:35:45 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thats a good question jain'
  85. [Sun Aug 16 08:35:46 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thats the idea Jain'
  86. [Sun Aug 16 08:35:47 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'im not sure it would'
  87. [Sun Aug 16 08:35:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please bring new ideas up and send them in the form of agenda items. These meetings are not a place to introduce completely new rotation concepts.'
  88. [Sun Aug 16 08:36:05 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'guilds would still sign up for both slots in hope of a lucky target in the late hours of the windows'
  89. [Sun Aug 16 08:36:10 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'an 8hr window of cariance is alot easier to catch a soawn in - you would basically have a 1 /3 chance'
  90. [Sun Aug 16 08:36:15 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or just make it where if a guild fails/misses on any boss that is in their "off" slot X number of times in Y time period, they are removed from that slot'
  91. [Sun Aug 16 08:36:22 2015] Overcast tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i got a suggestion'
  92. [Sun Aug 16 08:36:23 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I feel it would be worth it to extend the timeslots an extra hour because last night we had vox pop about 10 minutes after our window closed so'
  93. [Sun Aug 16 08:36:49 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'And next time he will pop 10 mins after we extended the window'
  94. [Sun Aug 16 08:36:57 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, '^^'
  95. [Sun Aug 16 08:37:10 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we can't account for a mob spawning 10 minutes after a slot ends - it's going to happen, no matter what'
  96. [Sun Aug 16 08:37:21 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed manvaril'
  97. [Sun Aug 16 08:37:45 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If we extend it 10 minutes, will we just extend it another 10 minutes, and then another, and then another?'
  98. [Sun Aug 16 08:37:54 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'exactly jain'
  99. [Sun Aug 16 08:38:09 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i believe the slots are fine as we created them, just that if someone can't take out a mob in their secondary slot, as i suggested, they get removed from that slot'
  100. [Sun Aug 16 08:38:10 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If there is extra time and it does not cripple any guilds chances I have nothing against increasing a timeslot.. so long as it is fair to everyone.'
  101. [Sun Aug 16 08:38:19 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Question is PRIMARY and SECONDARY raid slots - NOT changing hours. '
  102. [Sun Aug 16 08:38:23 2015] Syrgen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Like Matthias idear, but if a guild fails to kill a raid target in their secondary time slot (for instance 2 times) they should be penalized in both the secondary as well as primary time slot....that will make guilds consider carefully if they should sign for a second time slot'
  103. [Sun Aug 16 08:38:27 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i dont think the issue is about 10 minutes here, its about leveling the playing field, like he said'
  104. [Sun Aug 16 08:38:30 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'correct scrubb'
  105. [Sun Aug 16 08:38:35 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'My view is 3 equal 8 hour time stamps 8 / 8/ 8 you have a 1/3 chance every day it spawns on your time period'
  106. [Sun Aug 16 08:39:13 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'extension windows shouldnt need to be had - every timeslot gets a equal share''
  107. [Sun Aug 16 08:39:16 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'guys - scrubb is right - we're not discussing changing the slot times right now'
  108. [Sun Aug 16 08:39:28 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we keep offtopic discussion in the raid please'
  109. [Sun Aug 16 08:39:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok...'
  110. [Sun Aug 16 08:39:44 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the discussion was to make a guild declare their primary and secondary slots if they choose to be in both slots'
  111. [Sun Aug 16 08:39:47 2015] Overcast tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i dont think the window should be extended because we have ALot of guilds in the rotation and we will miss out on so many raid targets'
  112. [Sun Aug 16 08:40:08 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'already missing out /shrug'
  113. [Sun Aug 16 08:40:11 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What is the difference between Primary and Secondary slots? = please explain the proposal fully'
  114. [Sun Aug 16 08:40:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We have not officially declared our timeslots yet. There will be a modificaiton to the spreadsheet for declaring which you are in'
  115. [Sun Aug 16 08:40:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The basic difference between Primary and Secondary is that you can be penalized in the secondary time slot for failure to kill a mo b'
  116. [Sun Aug 16 08:40:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you will never be penalized for k illing in the primary timeslot'
  117. [Sun Aug 16 08:41:00 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok - what is the rules for secondary? '
  118. [Sun Aug 16 08:41:05 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Scubbles, the purpose of declairing your primary would be for future rules/stipulations and things like that'
  119. [Sun Aug 16 08:41:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It is also needed for poitn of reference for new topics yet to be introduced'
  120. [Sun Aug 16 08:41:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'let's fully discuss what's proposed so it makes sense'
  121. [Sun Aug 16 08:41:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'before we vote on it'
  122. [Sun Aug 16 08:41:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'How will this effect 24/7 guilds? Without doing an actual count I believe there are 4 or 5 on the rotation?'
  123. [Sun Aug 16 08:42:06 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm going to jump to agenda item 1.3 quickly'
  124. [Sun Aug 16 08:42:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hold that thought Jain'
  125. [Sun Aug 16 08:42:27 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Sure'
  126. [Sun Aug 16 08:42:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Rosengard proposed that when you kill a mob in your primary rotation, you are moved ot the bo ttom of the ro tation in both your primary and secondary rotations'
  127. [Sun Aug 16 08:43:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It's another reason to have primary and secodarys. So that rules like this can be implemented.'
  128. [Sun Aug 16 08:43:18 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Now, think about what this means.'
  129. [Sun Aug 16 08:43:27 2015] Syrgen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what if you kill in your secondary time slot first?'
  130. [Sun Aug 16 08:43:28 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so killing a ob in secondary would not move your place on the primary?'
  131. [Sun Aug 16 08:43:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It will basically allow guilds to have a more fair shot at killing mobs'
  132. [Sun Aug 16 08:43:54 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there is no rule yet guys, no use debating, the question is, do we want to declare primary and secondary? yes or no? '
  133. [Sun Aug 16 08:44:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I believe the intent was if you kill it in either, you are put to the bottom of both. Correct, Bon?'
  134. [Sun Aug 16 08:44:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No vote yet, just d iscussing so everyone understands what htey are voting on'
  135. [Sun Aug 16 08:44:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Just as a point of clarification - does this mean that the NA and EU rotation orders can (will?) change? And if so is that a permanent or temporary order change? (thinking about this from an admin perspective)'
  136. [Sun Aug 16 08:45:06 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The intent is to shre the mobs more evenly around while not hurting the guilds who are able to field a raid 24/7.. I dont wanna hurt the primary raid forces of a guild by movingem to the bottom of hte list for killing in the secondary rotation'
  137. [Sun Aug 16 08:45:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The rotations themselves shouldnt' change, they will just be rotated to the bottom, right?'
  138. [Sun Aug 16 08:45:31 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'correct'
  139. [Sun Aug 16 08:45:31 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think that a kill is a kill. You get the "protection" of the slot, but it shoudln't give you a chance at more mobs. You have your window, but once you kill, it drops you to the bottom of both rotational slots.'
  140. [Sun Aug 16 08:46:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Well'
  141. [Sun Aug 16 08:46:18 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If they weren't up next, and they get rotated to the bottom, then the rotation order has changed'
  142. [Sun Aug 16 08:46:22 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'does everyone understand what is being proposed then?'
  143. [Sun Aug 16 08:46:24 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'This is mechanical'
  144. [Sun Aug 16 08:46:24 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'a guild should not be penalized for being able to raid 24/7'
  145. [Sun Aug 16 08:46:32 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as we seem to be discussing something else now'
  146. [Sun Aug 16 08:46:52 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'a guild should not be penalized for not being able to not raid 24/7 ;-)'
  147. [Sun Aug 16 08:47:12 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i dont thnk you are being penalized since you are able to get your extra kills during FFA'
  148. [Sun Aug 16 08:47:35 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hold both slots even though you can field the force just means less viable targets for guilds who can only raid in their primary slot'
  149. [Sun Aug 16 08:47:40 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i joined up for a rotation, not FFA'
  150. [Sun Aug 16 08:47:44 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not everyone can field a raid in an FFA period'
  151. [Sun Aug 16 08:47:48 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You also have 2 slots in which to kill a specific mob, with the built in protections of the time slot. It's not a penalty, so much as a true leveling of the field'
  152. [Sun Aug 16 08:48:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This change encourages more guilds to get kills, and keeps the rotations moving faster.'
  153. [Sun Aug 16 08:48:34 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The whole reason of having a FFA is to have some contesting on the server, for guilds that are stronger than others, to claim more kills. Therefor it seems stupid that guilds can also sign up into both Eu and US time zone, and claim mobs x2 (1 in each) - So I think the suggestion RG has come up with is good.'
  154. [Sun Aug 16 08:49:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, now that we understand'
  155. [Sun Aug 16 08:49:07 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd still like to know if this is a temporary or permanent rotation order change. If it's Apok > RoE > RG > TLG, but RoE is up in another slot, and killed their dragon, It becomes Apok > RG > TLG > RoE? This is an order change'
  156. [Sun Aug 16 08:49:46 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think it woudl change the order Jain'
  157. [Sun Aug 16 08:49:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Under this proposal, I believe yes.'
  158. [Sun Aug 16 08:49:48 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not an order change.. just they move to the bottom of hte list and the rotation moves on'
  159. [Sun Aug 16 08:49:59 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it counts as a kill'
  160. [Sun Aug 16 08:49:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It's very easy to say you "just drop to the bottom" but from the mechanical side, we have to make further decisions'
  161. [Sun Aug 16 08:50:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Oh, I see what you're saying'
  162. [Sun Aug 16 08:50:11 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it will serve to shuffle it as people cycle on both though Bon'
  163. [Sun Aug 16 08:50:17 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you kill in your primary slot it counts as a kill in both slots'
  164. [Sun Aug 16 08:50:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What's the problem Jain?'
  165. [Sun Aug 16 08:50:41 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'OK, if it's not changing the rotation order, what are you dropping to the bottom of? Where is this tracked?'
  166. [Sun Aug 16 08:51:02 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Jain is saying the upkeep of changing the rotation order is a problem.'
  167. [Sun Aug 16 08:51:05 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'jain is right - it does change the rotation "order" per se'
  168. [Sun Aug 16 08:51:07 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the rotation list isnt a set order Jain its suicide kings. '
  169. [Sun Aug 16 08:51:08 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it is going to change the order though'
  170. [Sun Aug 16 08:51:11 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm saying the upkeep has to be decided'
  171. [Sun Aug 16 08:51:14 2015] Syrgen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think he means...if you kill in your primary time slot, you will have to skip the secondary time slot for that rotation?'
  172. [Sun Aug 16 08:51:35 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If I call 5 people every day on my phone in a certain order, and the #3 person "drops to the bottom" the order has changed'
  173. [Sun Aug 16 08:51:35 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What is the problem with changing the r otation order?'
  174. [Sun Aug 16 08:51:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I don't have a problem with it'
  175. [Sun Aug 16 08:51:50 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I just need to know, that's what we're deciding here'
  176. [Sun Aug 16 08:52:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'And does it revert during the next full cycle, or is it permanent'
  177. [Sun Aug 16 08:52:16 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'permanent. has to be.'
  178. [Sun Aug 16 08:52:24 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its not droping to the bottom, jain, i think thats badly worded, if you kill in your primary slot, it rotates,'
  179. [Sun Aug 16 08:52:35 2015] Syrgen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that serves no purpose then really, as they will have the same amount of kills :p'
  180. [Sun Aug 16 08:52:45 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i would with this method there is no "cycle" its just a never ending changing of who is up to bat'
  181. [Sun Aug 16 08:52:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'OK so just to be clear, if you kill something in one slot, the rotation order of the other slot will change. Thank you.'
  182. [Sun Aug 16 08:53:05 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes'
  183. [Sun Aug 16 08:53:31 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'PROPOSAL - in order to get past this agenda point (which we're already 30 minutes into debating) - I MOVE that guilds declare their PRIMARY rotation slot. If they are on the other slot, it automatically becomes their SECONDARY. This is needed to further discuss other items later.'
  184. [Sun Aug 16 08:53:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If I'm not making sense, then you may be assuming that a guild will always be up for the same mob in both slots, but don't think like that - think about when things desync'
  185. [Sun Aug 16 08:53:47 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'jason's not gonna play this game.'
  186. [Sun Aug 16 08:53:52 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, '=)'
  187. [Sun Aug 16 08:53:58 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why not just skip them when next up in the 2ndary? prevents constantly editing order'
  188. [Sun Aug 16 08:54:01 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Exactly Jain'
  189. [Sun Aug 16 08:54:22 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'maybe do a line break to show when the next rotation cycle is due to start, and as people kill, in either roration, they drop below the line. Then once the cycle is completed, it starts back over with the entire cycle now moving back above the line and a new one being started below it'
  190. [Sun Aug 16 08:54:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, so from now on, when we say move to the bottom of the rotation order, we mean permanently change the rotation order.'
  191. [Sun Aug 16 08:54:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Personally I think option #2 is simpler, servers to move the rotation along more quickly, and encourages guilds not to sign up for a slot in which they cannot field a force'
  192. [Sun Aug 16 08:55:01 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'option 2?'
  193. [Sun Aug 16 08:55:07 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Assuming the latter is why this is being discueed'
  194. [Sun Aug 16 08:55:11 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You are correct, Currently we have 2 time zones, US and EU. ATM guilds are allowed to kill in each without cycling in the rotation on both US and EU, So if they kill it during US time, they do not lose their current #position in EU which doesnt make sense and allows guilds to not only have FFA kills but also have double kills during A rotation.'
  195. [Sun Aug 16 08:55:14 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Congestion issues'
  196. [Sun Aug 16 08:55:18 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it would be much easier just to do it like this, if they kill in eu time, their turn in us time on that moss is just passed, then we dont have to change rotation'
  197. [Sun Aug 16 08:55:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'these are not options, but each individual implementations'
  198. [Sun Aug 16 08:55:23 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'jason's not gonna play this game.'
  199. [Sun Aug 16 08:55:28 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and other way around'
  200. [Sun Aug 16 08:55:33 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Ah, gotcha'
  201. [Sun Aug 16 08:56:38 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'having them skip their turn in the opposite slot seems fair'
  202. [Sun Aug 16 08:56:52 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So are we ok to vote on PRIMARY and SECONDARY titles for the timeslots? (get that out the way before the rest)'
  203. [Sun Aug 16 08:57:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, so does anyone NOT agree with the concept of creating Primary and Secondary rotations?'
  204. [Sun Aug 16 08:57:07 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'anyways, again, I MOVE that rotation guilds declare which slot will be their PRIMARY. If they choose to be in the other slot, it automatically becomes their secondary. (this is needed for any other discussion points relating to it)'
  205. [Sun Aug 16 08:57:40 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes TLG does not agree with that'
  206. [Sun Aug 16 08:57:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What is the problem Elend?'
  207. [Sun Aug 16 08:58:03 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We think its fine the way it is'
  208. [Sun Aug 16 08:58:12 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I need a reason.'
  209. [Sun Aug 16 08:58:22 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'CaF doesnt agree with it either, i concur with Elend'
  210. [Sun Aug 16 08:58:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Reasons?'
  211. [Sun Aug 16 08:58:44 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You really don't. We enjoy raiding, and do not want to see less mobs when our rotation order comes up.'
  212. [Sun Aug 16 08:58:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Defining these are essential to help us with congestion issues'
  213. [Sun Aug 16 08:59:20 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'CaF and TLG are no. Rest are yes? '
  214. [Sun Aug 16 08:59:24 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i dont think other guilds should suffer due to the fact another guild cant yield the force when a mob spawns, ever since eq started, when a mob spawns...first come first serve whoever yields the force'
  215. [Sun Aug 16 08:59:30 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Keep it the same, or change it. That should be the vote, after that. We can vote on how to change it.'
  216. [Sun Aug 16 08:59:48 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'from what ive seen, TLG yields a force overnight, they deserve the mobs overnight'
  217. [Sun Aug 16 09:00:04 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote is on primary and secondary slots - nothing else atm.'
  218. [Sun Aug 16 09:00:06 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'TLG has a 12hour FFA period to yield atm'
  219. [Sun Aug 16 09:00:07 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that's fine, but this discussion has nothing to do with any of that'
  220. [Sun Aug 16 09:00:14 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we are not voting on any of that currently. we are voting on whether we should name a primary and secondary slot. NOTHING MORE'
  221. [Sun Aug 16 09:00:27 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'also, 24/7 guilds dont have a "primary" raid time'
  222. [Sun Aug 16 09:00:27 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'False Prophecy can get a force in FFA period too - Saytonic - your poijnt is mooy -'
  223. [Sun Aug 16 09:00:49 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'That's kind of like saying we're voting on whether to go to Chick-fil-A or McDonald's, but we're not voting on whether we're eating chicken sandwiches or hamburgers :)'
  224. [Sun Aug 16 09:01:07 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If CaF and TLG are the only Nos. then the vote passes?'
  225. [Sun Aug 16 09:01:18 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we arnt even going that far, we are voting if mcdonaldns and chifila are the options to choose'
  226. [Sun Aug 16 09:01:19 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no one voted on anything yet'
  227. [Sun Aug 16 09:01:25 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Not yet hand og scrubbles'
  228. [Sun Aug 16 09:01:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'There's no vote on the floor that I'm aware of'
  229. [Sun Aug 16 09:01:32 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'kk'
  230. [Sun Aug 16 09:01:35 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Moving forward with Marth's proposal: Guild's must declare their PRIMARY rotation slot. If they are not on the other slot, it automatically becomes their SECONDARY.'
  231. [Sun Aug 16 09:01:45 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we arent voting - we are clarifying'
  232. [Sun Aug 16 09:01:46 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i made a motion, twice, that wasn't seconded...so yeah :)'
  233. [Sun Aug 16 09:01:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry, thought we had it.'
  234. [Sun Aug 16 09:02:01 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we have a non-randomized order atm, a single guild got all 7 primetime kills thus far, im not sure thats congestion, it sounds more like a seeding screw-up btw, the topic of signing up when you cant field forces is another thing'
  235. [Sun Aug 16 09:02:02 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i will second it'
  236. [Sun Aug 16 09:02:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anybody want to second his proposal'
  237. [Sun Aug 16 09:02:05 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'nope :)'
  238. [Sun Aug 16 09:02:08 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'do now ;)'
  239. [Sun Aug 16 09:02:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, now we're moving forward with vote.'
  240. [Sun Aug 16 09:02:35 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Moving forward with Marth's proposal: Guild's must declare their PRIMARY rotation slot. If they are not on the other slot, it automatically becomes their SECONDARY. Yes/No/Abstain'
  241. [Sun Aug 16 09:02:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote Now'
  242. [Sun Aug 16 09:02:56 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes - <Remnants of Prexus>'
  243. [Sun Aug 16 09:02:56 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <False Prophecy>'
  244. [Sun Aug 16 09:03:00 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  245. [Sun Aug 16 09:03:04 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  246. [Sun Aug 16 09:03:10 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  247. [Sun Aug 16 09:03:15 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Reign of Eternity>'
  248. [Sun Aug 16 09:03:17 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  249. [Sun Aug 16 09:03:33 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'YES <Tempus>'
  250. [Sun Aug 16 09:03:43 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TL>'
  251. [Sun Aug 16 09:03:48 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No, <TLG>'
  252. [Sun Aug 16 09:03:51 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Apokalypsis>'
  253. [Sun Aug 16 09:04:01 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no, <caf>'
  254. [Sun Aug 16 09:04:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10 For, 2 Opposed, vote passes'
  255. [Sun Aug 16 09:05:12 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, so we've now defined what Primary and Secondary timeslots are. We will update the spreadsheet for you to declare your primary after the meeting.'
  256. [Sun Aug 16 09:05:16 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Before we move on, can we immediately declare slots then so the spreadsheet can reflect?'
  257. [Sun Aug 16 09:05:26 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i secnod that'
  258. [Sun Aug 16 09:05:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or that'
  259. [Sun Aug 16 09:05:31 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second !'
  260. [Sun Aug 16 09:05:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree, we should do now, good idea'
  261. [Sun Aug 16 09:05:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '(Half the guilds havent picked anything so far so lets knock this out of the way please)'
  262. [Sun Aug 16 09:05:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'One person from each guild state your primary slot:'
  263. [Sun Aug 16 09:06:14 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, '<Ceaseless> NA Slot'
  264. [Sun Aug 16 09:06:20 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'US Primetime <False Prophecy>'
  265. [Sun Aug 16 09:06:21 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '<Rosengard> EU'
  266. [Sun Aug 16 09:06:30 2015] Syrgen tells RotationCouncil:4, '<Darkwind> EU'
  267. [Sun Aug 16 09:07:01 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Leche is currently afk, he will have to state for the record when he returns,'
  268. [Sun Aug 16 09:07:18 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'NA timeslot <Apok>'
  269. [Sun Aug 16 09:08:07 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'US timeslot <RoE>'
  270. [Sun Aug 16 09:08:08 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Its only RG and DW that are EU guilds and therefor have EU primetime, correct? Makes it easier for you to update Spreadsheet.'
  271. [Sun Aug 16 09:08:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Well TLG and CaF could theoretically declare themselves as either.'
  272. [Sun Aug 16 09:08:56 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'TL as well'
  273. [Sun Aug 16 09:09:34 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would like to propose that guilds who are 50 percent or greater bots be removed from the rotation altogether. *Drops bomb* '
  274. [Sun Aug 16 09:10:34 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'avatarr not the time for that discussion since we do have an agenda. you can subit that as an agenda point for the next meeting tho'
  275. [Sun Aug 16 09:10:41 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we have no definition of a bot, either'
  276. [Sun Aug 16 09:10:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'For the sake of moving this forward, we will have to update timeslots that have not been announced at this time later. '
  277. [Sun Aug 16 09:11:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you have not gotten back to an officer by next week, a timeslot will be decided for you. Moving on...'
  278. [Sun Aug 16 09:11:17 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Nothing has been voted on for why these timeslots are being used, so we will declare at that point in time.'
  279. [Sun Aug 16 09:11:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Now that we've adopted Primary and secondary timeslots, let's revisit A3'
  280. [Sun Aug 16 09:11:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry 1.a.3'
  281. [Sun Aug 16 09:12:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We've discussed it, now let's vote on it.'
  282. [Sun Aug 16 09:12:27 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'could we get a clarification on what the full proposal is first pelase'
  283. [Sun Aug 16 09:12:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'When you kill a mob in your Primary rotation, you are moved to the bottom of the rotation on both your Primary and Secondary rotations.'
  284. [Sun Aug 16 09:12:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Any questions?'
  285. [Sun Aug 16 09:12:42 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  286. [Sun Aug 16 09:12:47 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so what if you kill a mob in secondary?'
  287. [Sun Aug 16 09:12:49 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'do you move to the bottom if you kill in your secondary slot as well?'
  288. [Sun Aug 16 09:12:59 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that was not my proposal no'
  289. [Sun Aug 16 09:13:04 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'did we decide on the full rotation order change, or that the guild will simply skip their turn in the seconday slot'
  290. [Sun Aug 16 09:13:11 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Can we iterate that the rotation order changes by dropping you to the bottom'
  291. [Sun Aug 16 09:13:14 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We can change the wording to being skip on your secondary rotation'
  292. [Sun Aug 16 09:13:18 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'instead of moved to the bottom'
  293. [Sun Aug 16 09:13:26 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'skipped..'
  294. [Sun Aug 16 09:13:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Reword your propsal please bon.'
  295. [Sun Aug 16 09:13:41 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, please'
  296. [Sun Aug 16 09:13:44 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Skip is better then a rotation shuffle all the time'
  297. [Sun Aug 16 09:13:51 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but ONLY if you kill in your primary timezone, otherwise it wont make any sense on guilds being in 2.'
  298. [Sun Aug 16 09:13:54 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agrees'
  299. [Sun Aug 16 09:13:55 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'less document changes'
  300. [Sun Aug 16 09:14:15 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Barring this proposal, currently you cannot drop to the bottom unless you are at the top'
  301. [Sun Aug 16 09:14:28 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'So mechanically we are adding a method to drop to the bottom from the middle'
  302. [Sun Aug 16 09:14:40 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Unless an alternative is chosen'
  303. [Sun Aug 16 09:14:40 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its not dropping, its skipping'
  304. [Sun Aug 16 09:14:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So you want to skip instead of change the rotation order, correct bon?'
  305. [Sun Aug 16 09:14:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Like a skip'
  306. [Sun Aug 16 09:14:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Like a pass basically'
  307. [Sun Aug 16 09:14:50 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'correct'
  308. [Sun Aug 16 09:14:56 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Skips will need to be tracked of course'
  309. [Sun Aug 16 09:15:25 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Unless we are going on the honor system :)'
  310. [Sun Aug 16 09:15:58 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if a guild kills a mob in thier primary, they are skipped in secondary. but what if a guild kills thier mob in secondary? do they maintain thier position on primary rotation?'
  311. [Sun Aug 16 09:16:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'When you kill a mob in your Primary rotation, you are skipped to the next place in the Secondary rotation as well.'
  312. [Sun Aug 16 09:16:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does that describe what you are proposing Bon?'
  313. [Sun Aug 16 09:16:26 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  314. [Sun Aug 16 09:16:54 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Can we get a second on his proposal?'
  315. [Sun Aug 16 09:17:03 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but does killing in secondary skip you in primary is the question that hasn't been answered'
  316. [Sun Aug 16 09:17:15 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Wasnt part of my suggestion no'
  317. [Sun Aug 16 09:17:19 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm confused on what exactly his proposal does'
  318. [Sun Aug 16 09:17:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It prevents you from getting back to back kills in both rotations'
  319. [Sun Aug 16 09:17:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'allows for more guilds to get their piece of the pie'
  320. [Sun Aug 16 09:17:57 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'My point with it is to move the rotation along faster.. And to stop what we are seeing now with Apok being up for every mob'
  321. [Sun Aug 16 09:18:08 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not if you kill in secondary first, you coudl still very well be up in primary and it wouldn't be changed'
  322. [Sun Aug 16 09:18:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Well that only happened because we didnt shuffle it. But it could come up again.'
  323. [Sun Aug 16 09:18:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It doesn't technically prevent as it's possible that the cycles could be out of sync allowing for back to back rotation kills'
  324. [Sun Aug 16 09:18:27 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'correct'
  325. [Sun Aug 16 09:19:11 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree wholeheartedly Bon, which is why I'm saying a kill in either shoudl drop in both. If that's not the case under this proposal, that will alter the way I potentially vote. '
  326. [Sun Aug 16 09:19:32 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'exactly, ryanilin'
  327. [Sun Aug 16 09:19:56 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'where was the actual rule wording up there?'
  328. [Sun Aug 16 09:20:22 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ryan I agree with you it should do it if you kill in Primary AND secondary, BUT is there even a reason to have a primary and secondary IF that is the case? - Why risk being kicked from rotation joining Secondary timezone, when it doesnt bring you double the loot?'
  329. [Sun Aug 16 09:20:40 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'do people want a drop in both then? not just secondary?'
  330. [Sun Aug 16 09:20:58 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'becuase you get teh protection of the window, so that a mob in iether window would be yours to kill'
  331. [Sun Aug 16 09:20:58 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Smoelf there is currently no removal mechanic except a vote on grounds of inactivity'
  332. [Sun Aug 16 09:21:05 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Smoelfen brings up a good point, and I don't even think we can discuss this until we've decided on penalties'
  333. [Sun Aug 16 09:21:10 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'which we skipped..'
  334. [Sun Aug 16 09:21:19 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'bon, what was the language in your motion up there?'
  335. [Sun Aug 16 09:21:36 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'one sec'
  336. [Sun Aug 16 09:22:06 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'because if we have the proper penalties in place, it might make this discussion moot'
  337. [Sun Aug 16 09:22:25 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Rosengard has proposed that when you kill a mob in your Primary rotation, you are moved to the bottom of the rotation in both your Primary and Secondary rotations..'
  338. [Sun Aug 16 09:22:41 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what if you kill something in your secondary'
  339. [Sun Aug 16 09:22:41 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  340. [Sun Aug 16 09:22:46 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you kill a mob in your secondary rotation it moves along as if nothing happened'
  341. [Sun Aug 16 09:23:20 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think if you kill mob in your secondary it should have the same effect'
  342. [Sun Aug 16 09:23:20 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so secondary rotation mobs do not effect your position in the primary order, correct?'
  343. [Sun Aug 16 09:23:29 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'correct'
  344. [Sun Aug 16 09:23:46 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why is that better than just not changing anything'
  345. [Sun Aug 16 09:23:49 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i disagree Manvaril, what would be the point of having a secondary then'
  346. [Sun Aug 16 09:23:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Anybody can opt to amend that verbiage if it doesn't make sense. That is one proposal.'
  347. [Sun Aug 16 09:23:53 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that was my initial proposal.. Its been reworded a couple of 100 times now tho )'
  348. [Sun Aug 16 09:23:55 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if the opposite exists....that is'
  349. [Sun Aug 16 09:24:18 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Bon, can you maybe explain how this will be helpful?'
  350. [Sun Aug 16 09:24:35 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'To move the rotation along faster'
  351. [Sun Aug 16 09:24:37 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'disreguard my last statement'
  352. [Sun Aug 16 09:25:02 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It will somewhat take away all the back to back kills we see now. They can still happen but will be less often'
  353. [Sun Aug 16 09:25:09 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the language was, "When you kill a mob in your Primary rotation, you are moved to the bottom of the rotation in both your Primary and Secondary rotations." - that seems clear, and we have a motion & a second'
  354. [Sun Aug 16 09:25:24 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well honestly, randomizing the rotation order will do that Bon'
  355. [Sun Aug 16 09:25:25 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If we're going to do dropping I think it should just be permanent so the spreadsheet doesn't become a graffiti nightmare with notes about skips and stuff'
  356. [Sun Aug 16 09:26:00 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it's clear but I don't understand how it helps more than just having you be dropped to the bottom in both, or why getting a kill in secondary is less important'
  357. [Sun Aug 16 09:26:10 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i agree jain, there are certain people that can't update the rotation document as it is'
  358. [Sun Aug 16 09:26:12 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i dont think it should "drop" anything. it should rotate, it shouldnt change the order, just the posistion'
  359. [Sun Aug 16 09:26:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree with Jain'
  360. [Sun Aug 16 09:26:26 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it should be a permanent rotation change'
  361. [Sun Aug 16 09:27:04 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Would an example help in understanding?'
  362. [Sun Aug 16 09:27:06 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the motion has permanant change language in it'
  363. [Sun Aug 16 09:27:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We need to move on. The motion has been seconded. Let's vote on it'
  364. [Sun Aug 16 09:27:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The order is a sequence of positions though'
  365. [Sun Aug 16 09:27:50 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the order of the guilds doesnt really matter imo'
  366. [Sun Aug 16 09:27:58 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'whta jain said'
  367. [Sun Aug 16 09:28:16 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry I am not trying to nitpick :|'
  368. [Sun Aug 16 09:28:26 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you feel this doesn't make sense, let your vote reflect it.'
  369. [Sun Aug 16 09:28:29 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no we need to nitpick, haha'
  370. [Sun Aug 16 09:28:46 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I just have the spreadsheet open and I'm envisioning how this plays out'
  371. [Sun Aug 16 09:29:12 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'When you kill a mob in your primary rotation, you are moved ot the bottom of the rotation in both your Primary and Secondary Rotations. yes/no/abstain'
  372. [Sun Aug 16 09:29:18 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'VOTE now'
  373. [Sun Aug 16 09:29:27 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Tempus>'
  374. [Sun Aug 16 09:29:30 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'NO<TLG>'
  375. [Sun Aug 16 09:29:36 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  376. [Sun Aug 16 09:29:44 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <False Prophecy}'
  377. [Sun Aug 16 09:29:45 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  378. [Sun Aug 16 09:29:46 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  379. [Sun Aug 16 09:30:05 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Reign of Eternity>'
  380. [Sun Aug 16 09:30:08 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  381. [Sun Aug 16 09:30:15 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes CaF'
  382. [Sun Aug 16 09:30:23 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  383. [Sun Aug 16 09:30:25 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Apok>'
  384. [Sun Aug 16 09:30:29 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  385. [Sun Aug 16 09:31:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10 for, 2 opposed, passes'
  386. [Sun Aug 16 09:31:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, moving to agenda item 1.a.2'
  387. [Sun Aug 16 09:32:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It was mentioned that reducing the amount of time to engage window would help with the rotation. It is another option to alleviate congestion (since there are now double the amount of guilds in it than was previously)'
  388. [Sun Aug 16 09:32:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I will keep it simple, and subsequent votes can reflect the outcome of this'
  389. [Sun Aug 16 09:32:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Should we reduce the time to engage from 3 hours? vote yes/no/abstain'
  390. [Sun Aug 16 09:32:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote NOW'
  391. [Sun Aug 16 09:33:05 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'NO <Tempus>'
  392. [Sun Aug 16 09:33:07 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  393. [Sun Aug 16 09:33:13 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Ceaseless>'
  394. [Sun Aug 16 09:33:19 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <False Prophecy>'
  395. [Sun Aug 16 09:33:21 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TL>'
  396. [Sun Aug 16 09:33:21 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Apok>'
  397. [Sun Aug 16 09:33:26 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes CaF'
  398. [Sun Aug 16 09:33:29 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Reign of Eternity>'
  399. [Sun Aug 16 09:33:34 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No < Evening Reign >'
  400. [Sun Aug 16 09:33:43 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Darkwind>'
  401. [Sun Aug 16 09:33:49 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  402. [Sun Aug 16 09:34:50 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Am I going to have to look up who is abstaining'
  403. [Sun Aug 16 09:35:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'TLG'
  404. [Sun Aug 16 09:35:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'TLG abstaining?'
  405. [Sun Aug 16 09:35:46 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '4 votes for, 7 opposed, 1 abstain, vote fails'
  406. [Sun Aug 16 09:36:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, so the time to engage window remains at 3 hours.'
  407. [Sun Aug 16 09:36:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Opening discussion up for penalities for failing to kill a mob in your secondary timeslot.'
  408. [Sun Aug 16 09:36:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please (quickly and decisively) offer feedback on this.'
  409. [Sun Aug 16 09:36:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We discussed it last meeting, but nothing was decided.'
  410. [Sun Aug 16 09:36:59 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you fail to kill in your secondary Twice -- your off rotation pure and simple'
  411. [Sun Aug 16 09:37:05 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'removal after 2 misses/fails, can ask to be readded after 30 days'
  412. [Sun Aug 16 09:37:18 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Please remember upkeep marth :('
  413. [Sun Aug 16 09:37:18 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Entering Secondary should be only for the hardcore, if u decide you are hardcore to get more loots than others, it should be a removal from Rotation untill next expansion'
  414. [Sun Aug 16 09:37:26 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 misses in what time period. ?'
  415. [Sun Aug 16 09:37:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'at all?'
  416. [Sun Aug 16 09:37:36 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'jain - true'
  417. [Sun Aug 16 09:37:40 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'in a row i would think'
  418. [Sun Aug 16 09:37:55 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'two misses in Secondary timeslot = off rotation -- can rekill to get added in @ bottom'
  419. [Sun Aug 16 09:37:55 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 missed in the last 5'
  420. [Sun Aug 16 09:38:12 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Keep in mind that sooner or later, someone is going to get confused, trip up, GM's will be brought into this, and then a paper trail has to be produced about anything we're supposedly tracking'
  421. [Sun Aug 16 09:38:12 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'jain has a valid point - we have to remember about someone keeping up with all of that'
  422. [Sun Aug 16 09:38:32 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Well it's not just someone'
  423. [Sun Aug 16 09:38:36 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It's the guild who gets the kill, as I understand this all'
  424. [Sun Aug 16 09:38:42 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'IMO - 2 misses/fails in the secondary slot = you're off the secondary slot until the next expansion'
  425. [Sun Aug 16 09:38:59 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i can live with that'
  426. [Sun Aug 16 09:39:15 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think, if you sign up for both timeslots.. that is a sign of dedication, and desire for loot. If you fail to kill your secondary, I think you should be removed from both timeslots, and you should have to rekill a gatekeeper to gain access again. Eleviating guilds filling up both slots that cant follow through,'
  427. [Sun Aug 16 09:39:16 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but that doesn't discourage people from trying'
  428. [Sun Aug 16 09:39:23 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Next expansion seems kind of harsh.'
  429. [Sun Aug 16 09:39:25 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i would go with marth but make it so they can't get back on the secondary slot for 60 days'
  430. [Sun Aug 16 09:39:32 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there should be a punishment in your primary as well'
  431. [Sun Aug 16 09:39:45 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'to discourage people from trying if they have no chance'
  432. [Sun Aug 16 09:39:50 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'avatarr it does - but 1) it's simple to keep track of, 2) guilds shouldn't overextend in their ability'
  433. [Sun Aug 16 09:39:54 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thus wasting people's time'
  434. [Sun Aug 16 09:39:59 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Agree Saytonic, if you are greedy on loots you should be punished accordingly, which means u should not be able to get loot from primary timezone also'
  435. [Sun Aug 16 09:40:01 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would suggest 45 days.'
  436. [Sun Aug 16 09:40:22 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 Misses on a secondary slot = Removal from entire rotation (BOTH SLOTS) -- Can rekill Gatekeeper to reapply in'
  437. [Sun Aug 16 09:40:30 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'to easy'
  438. [Sun Aug 16 09:40:36 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it takes 30 mins to go kill kos'
  439. [Sun Aug 16 09:40:36 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you think your guild has what it takes, try it in the FFA first, no need to clutter the secondary rotation and waste peoples time...should be a punishment for it'
  440. [Sun Aug 16 09:40:37 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yeah that isnt much of a penalty'
  441. [Sun Aug 16 09:40:43 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'id like to suggest gatekeeper kill, no "time" penalty'
  442. [Sun Aug 16 09:40:54 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'two misses = banned from secondary for expansion'
  443. [Sun Aug 16 09:41:21 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 misses and your removed from secondary for 60 days'
  444. [Sun Aug 16 09:41:27 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What exactly is the punishment in that?'
  445. [Sun Aug 16 09:41:28 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and primary'
  446. [Sun Aug 16 09:41:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I've heard 45 days, 60 day, and until next expansion. Does anyone object to these being the three options proposed?'
  447. [Sun Aug 16 09:41:57 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I just want to be fair and just for all members of the server community, banning them for an entire exapsnion is very harsh. I think that a 30-45 day ban is plenty sufficient.'
  448. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:02 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can't believe i'm going to say this, but i can see some logic in what saytonic is saying. guilds who can kill in both slots reliably will be fine. guilds trying to overextend themselves in to their secondary slot, are affecting the other guilds' primary slot. should be pretty damn sure you can kill stuff'
  449. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:13 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'time period gatekeeper kill in the secondary time slot'
  450. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:14 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'are we talking strictly about removal from secondary or primary and secondary'
  451. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:15 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think, removal from secondary for an expansion, and removal from rotation until you kill a gatekeeper'
  452. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:28 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it should be harsh, to have people avoid wasting others time'
  453. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:29 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ryan - we're discussing punishment for failure to kill in the secondary slot'
  454. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:29 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'When we create these long lockouts'
  455. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'at this time just secondary'
  456. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:36 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Is it because we believe this is a fair punishment'
  457. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we can discuss primary next'
  458. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:43 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right, but both things have been proposed, in addtion to the times'
  459. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:44 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Or because it makes sure we have less competition'
  460. [Sun Aug 16 09:42:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'unless we feel it should be both under the same criteria'
  461. [Sun Aug 16 09:43:09 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'id like to make a motion to have it effect both time slots as punishment'
  462. [Sun Aug 16 09:43:10 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'jain - IMO i'd think so - because there's extra protections for you in the primary slot. if you have the people/balls/whatever to go into the secondary slot, better be sure you can do it, otherwise, there should be a firm punishment'
  463. [Sun Aug 16 09:43:17 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'pointless having it just be secondary'
  464. [Sun Aug 16 09:43:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'And everyone should probably sign up immediately for secondary, right? I mean, shot at a free mob? And then if you get removed, no big deal?'
  465. [Sun Aug 16 09:44:04 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'because the more guilds "thinking" they can kill during the euro primetime, affects the euro guilds there, plus the others we KNOW can kill in that slot. same if the euro guilds wanted in on the US primetime. it affects everyone if you fail to kill'
  466. [Sun Aug 16 09:44:05 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hence why you should be removed from both...'
  467. [Sun Aug 16 09:44:12 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'There is absolutely no sense in making a punishment for failing Secondary only affect secondary, which guild would be stupid enough to NOT try and maybe catch a lucky kill? If you fail, you clearly weren't fit for the job, where exactly is that a punishment?'
  468. [Sun Aug 16 09:44:27 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree with Sayonic. If you want to play with the adults. You should bring your a game. Risk losing both of your rotation slots.'
  469. [Sun Aug 16 09:44:29 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'exactly what I've been saying Smoelfen :D'
  470. [Sun Aug 16 09:44:39 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Excellent logic here. '
  471. [Sun Aug 16 09:44:46 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So a punishment should affect primary too'
  472. [Sun Aug 16 09:44:50 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  473. [Sun Aug 16 09:44:52 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'imo yes'
  474. [Sun Aug 16 09:44:55 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think thats almost everyone agreeing on that'
  475. [Sun Aug 16 09:45:01 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'then someone propose one'
  476. [Sun Aug 16 09:45:02 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Now to the punishment'
  477. [Sun Aug 16 09:45:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Thalanos, when we vote on this, I would like to make sure the vote includes language that each guild is responsible for updating/tracking this kind of stuff in the spreadsheet'
  478. [Sun Aug 16 09:45:52 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agree jain. shouldnt fall on your shoulders'
  479. [Sun Aug 16 09:46:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm happy to drop a kill time in here'
  480. [Sun Aug 16 09:46:05 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I got a proposal for that jain, we can get to that later though'
  481. [Sun Aug 16 09:46:11 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think thats an excellent idea Jain. Every guild should have 1 or 2 people keeping track of all updates on the rotations'
  482. [Sun Aug 16 09:46:13 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'IF we decide you have 2 shots in Secondary (1 for failing, (Could be a bad day, whatever) And then u still remain in Secondary. Then the punishment for failing 2nd time should be 1 month out of the rotation (Primary AND secondary)'
  483. [Sun Aug 16 09:46:13 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Will include.'
  484. [Sun Aug 16 09:46:23 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'But if someone drops, and they don't track it, and then they kill it, that's between them and the GM's'
  485. [Sun Aug 16 09:46:39 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Punishment: Failure to kill your secondary twice leads to a 45 ban from secondary and 15 from primary. <-- my proposal'
  486. [Sun Aug 16 09:47:03 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that's too complicated'
  487. [Sun Aug 16 09:47:10 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, '^^'
  488. [Sun Aug 16 09:47:22 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'here's a proposal - "If you fail to kill a mob (any rotation mob) 2 times in a row in your SECONDARY slot you are hereby removed from the rotation (both slots) and must schedule a gatekeeper kill to be brought back on. You will not be allowed to choose a SECONDARY slot for your guild until the next expansion."'
  489. [Sun Aug 16 09:47:29 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you fail secondary twice, removal from both, and have to rekill gatekeepers, then banned from secondary for _____ time (my vote is expansion)'
  490. [Sun Aug 16 09:47:31 2015] Azalene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why not just make just make drop to the bottom of the list in primary?'
  491. [Sun Aug 16 09:47:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'As Azelene points out, we have already implemented a penalty'
  492. [Sun Aug 16 09:48:15 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'explain'
  493. [Sun Aug 16 09:48:19 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what rule, sorry'
  494. [Sun Aug 16 09:48:30 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'failure to kill moves you to the bottom of the rotation. However, continually failing to kill, there's no penalty defined'
  495. [Sun Aug 16 09:48:31 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Er sorry, proposed'
  496. [Sun Aug 16 09:48:35 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'My proposal:: 1 failure to kill your secondary..removal from secondary and primary time slots, no time restriction, kill gatekeeper to reenter at the bottom'
  497. [Sun Aug 16 09:49:08 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'being at the bottom is long enough tiem restriction imo'
  498. [Sun Aug 16 09:49:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So you would be placed at bottom on both slots?'
  499. [Sun Aug 16 09:49:31 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i like the line of thinking saytonic, but having to rekill the gatekeeper might not affect anything at all, why not just make it so you fail once to kill in seconday, you are at the bottom of both lists'
  500. [Sun Aug 16 09:49:36 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you want to sign on with the big boys and fail, yes '
  501. [Sun Aug 16 09:49:40 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you would enter the rotation as any new guild would thalanos.. i personally dont think its harsh enough'
  502. [Sun Aug 16 09:49:47 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What if u are currently in the bottom when u fail on Secondary?'
  503. [Sun Aug 16 09:50:03 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would ask that punishment be fair and not overly decimating, 30 days for secondary and 7 days for primary. If you kill a gatekeeper you can be re-added to primary.'
  504. [Sun Aug 16 09:50:31 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'exactly smoelfen'
  505. [Sun Aug 16 09:50:54 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Killing in your secondary window is optional and if you do you better be damn sure you can do it.. if not get out'
  506. [Sun Aug 16 09:50:56 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'None of the guilds in rotation has a problem killing KoS, how exactly is this a punishment? a 1hour trip to horsie island. Excuse me, am I t he only one thinking this is way too soft, and why would this keep people from not trying to get lucky kills in secondary?'
  507. [Sun Aug 16 09:51:02 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'avatarr, is it 30 days and 7 days without your position moving? its entirely possible its a whole week before youre up on your primary slot anyway'
  508. [Sun Aug 16 09:51:13 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what do you propose Smoelfen?'
  509. [Sun Aug 16 09:51:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'To Saytonic's point, these cycles are already forever long'
  510. [Sun Aug 16 09:51:34 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would like to see removal from secondary as part of the verbiage. THe whole point of this is to speed up the rotation and cycling through faster'
  511. [Sun Aug 16 09:51:41 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Like a drop to the bottom feels like ~2 week setback'
  512. [Sun Aug 16 09:51:54 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you are already at the bottom u will wait a whole rotation and enter at the bottom'
  513. [Sun Aug 16 09:52:20 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'whose going to be in charge of tracking that'
  514. [Sun Aug 16 09:52:37 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'clearly jain'
  515. [Sun Aug 16 09:52:43 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'all in favor?'
  516. [Sun Aug 16 09:52:44 2015] Elaida tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lol.'
  517. [Sun Aug 16 09:52:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think if you fail in your secondary, even once, you should be removed and have to re-apply by killing gatekeeper. Keep in mind guys, a fail is a 3 hour shot at a mob, and you are allowed to pass attempts under current rules.'
  518. [Sun Aug 16 09:52:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I will not come to your rescue when the GM's come knocking :)'
  519. [Sun Aug 16 09:53:22 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I mean I'm okay with that, but it's about making things simple, not compounding everything until it's so complicated not even a real lawyer would want to deal with it :P'
  520. [Sun Aug 16 09:53:24 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i motion for roshen to do it'
  521. [Sun Aug 16 09:54:20 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'removed from both primary and secondary thalanos/'
  522. [Sun Aug 16 09:54:27 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, both'
  523. [Sun Aug 16 09:54:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok then, both'
  524. [Sun Aug 16 09:54:47 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that seems reasonable, while rekilling a gatekeeper isnt hard, it could be a major inconvience'
  525. [Sun Aug 16 09:55:05 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so removed from secondary for how long? thoughts?'
  526. [Sun Aug 16 09:55:13 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'There needs to be a punishment accordingly atleast, if u take the leap of faith to get more loot, there should also be the same punishment (Losing out 1 rotation of loot) Which is what you can obtain by entering secondary rotation.'
  527. [Sun Aug 16 09:55:16 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, '30 days'
  528. [Sun Aug 16 09:55:36 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, '1 rotation, same as what u would gain by succeeding'
  529. [Sun Aug 16 09:56:44 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'tbh if there is no consensus on this soon, please table it for the next meeting'
  530. [Sun Aug 16 09:57:13 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i want to point out'
  531. [Sun Aug 16 09:57:20 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, we need to keep this ball rolling, i don't want to be here for 9 hours like the last meeting'
  532. [Sun Aug 16 09:57:22 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that per the language of the primary/secondary rule we adopted'
  533. [Sun Aug 16 09:57:28 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that each of you are automatically on secondary rotation'
  534. [Sun Aug 16 09:57:37 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so penalties could apply in 1-2 days with each of you'
  535. [Sun Aug 16 09:57:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you fail to kill a mob in your secondary, even once, you will be removed from both your primary and secondary rotations and have to re-apply by killing gatekeeper. Vote: yes/no/abstain'
  536. [Sun Aug 16 09:57:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  537. [Sun Aug 16 09:57:51 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'some of us already opted into only one rotation'
  538. [Sun Aug 16 09:58:00 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Well let's call a vote? We have 3 different plays here dont we? - We have if you fail killing your mob in secondary you A. Have to kill Gatekeeper to Re-enter. B. You will lose out 1 rotation in Primary (And be left out of Secondary) C. You will lose your rights in primary for 30days.'
  539. [Sun Aug 16 09:58:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'You are automatically on it per the language'
  540. [Sun Aug 16 09:58:09 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there is no opt-out mechanic in the language we adopted'
  541. [Sun Aug 16 09:58:10 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'You have to opt out'
  542. [Sun Aug 16 09:58:24 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Ah true'
  543. [Sun Aug 16 09:58:25 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thal just called a vote'
  544. [Sun Aug 16 09:58:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you fail to kill a mob in your secondary, even once, you will be removed from both your primary and secondary rotations and have to re-apply by killing gatekeeper. Vote: yes/no/abstain'
  545. [Sun Aug 16 09:58:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  546. [Sun Aug 16 09:58:48 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, '<CaF> yes'
  547. [Sun Aug 16 09:58:50 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <False Prophecy>'
  548. [Sun Aug 16 09:59:00 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  549. [Sun Aug 16 09:59:06 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Rosengard>'
  550. [Sun Aug 16 09:59:13 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TL>'
  551. [Sun Aug 16 09:59:15 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  552. [Sun Aug 16 09:59:37 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  553. [Sun Aug 16 09:59:42 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  554. [Sun Aug 16 10:00:06 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'tlg abstains'
  555. [Sun Aug 16 10:00:20 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Apok>'
  556. [Sun Aug 16 10:00:39 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind> (I need to know if this puts you in the bottom of the rotation on primary, when re-entering by killing gatekeeper)?'
  557. [Sun Aug 16 10:01:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It's already a rule that you get placed on the bottom when you rejoin'
  558. [Sun Aug 16 10:01:14 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'smoel per the wording you're completely removed from the rotation if you fail a secondary slot mob'
  559. [Sun Aug 16 10:01:16 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Does RoE vote or abstain'
  560. [Sun Aug 16 10:01:27 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and you're put back at the bottom when you rejoin'
  561. [Sun Aug 16 10:01:31 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thank you'
  562. [Sun Aug 16 10:01:57 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'For - 10 for, opposed 1, abstain 1, vote passes'
  563. [Sun Aug 16 10:02:08 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Going back a slight bit.. I propose we add an opt out option to the secondary rotation'
  564. [Sun Aug 16 10:02:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'At this point in time, I'd like to give all guilds a chance to OPT OUT of secondary '
  565. [Sun Aug 16 10:02:19 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded Bonl'
  566. [Sun Aug 16 10:02:44 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'does this allow for opting out at any time?'
  567. [Sun Aug 16 10:02:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Since we've already decided everyone is secondary per prior vote, you will want to opt out if you don't want to be penalized'
  568. [Sun Aug 16 10:03:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'That's a good point Eaza. We have not stipulated the time frames in which you can join a secondary timeslot'
  569. [Sun Aug 16 10:03:26 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ceaseless opts out of seconday EU window'
  570. [Sun Aug 16 10:03:32 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'False Prophecy Wishes to Opt out of secondary -'
  571. [Sun Aug 16 10:03:51 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there is no rule that allows opting out yet tho'
  572. [Sun Aug 16 10:03:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would like to propose you can only change your timeslot at an official meeting'
  573. [Sun Aug 16 10:04:09 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second'
  574. [Sun Aug 16 10:04:10 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded'
  575. [Sun Aug 16 10:04:27 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'whats next?'
  576. [Sun Aug 16 10:04:28 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'seconded again'
  577. [Sun Aug 16 10:04:30 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'mt'
  578. [Sun Aug 16 10:04:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'With that, we should probably clarify... you're allowed to opt out at an official meeting, but can you join any time you kill gatekeeper?'
  579. [Sun Aug 16 10:04:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or do we think both should only be at a meeting'
  580. [Sun Aug 16 10:05:12 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'both should be at meeting only'
  581. [Sun Aug 16 10:05:20 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would say opt out upon gatekeeper kill and joining rotation, or at a meeting'
  582. [Sun Aug 16 10:05:43 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second ryanl'
  583. [Sun Aug 16 10:05:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'That makes sense too. '
  584. [Sun Aug 16 10:05:47 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there shoudl be a mechanism to simply opt out of secondary when you are added to the rotation though'
  585. [Sun Aug 16 10:05:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok...'
  586. [Sun Aug 16 10:06:03 2015] Elaida tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Im not so sure about opting out being limited to offical meetings since meetings CAN be sporadic. That is unless you mean to call a metting just so someone can opt out. Needs a more consistant means.'
  587. [Sun Aug 16 10:06:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You can only change your timeslot at an official meeting, or at the time you kill a gatekeeper. Yes/no/abstain'
  588. [Sun Aug 16 10:06:35 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  589. [Sun Aug 16 10:06:37 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why not just simply have someone post, after they announce they wish to join the rotation, which timeslots they wish to be in'
  590. [Sun Aug 16 10:06:52 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  591. [Sun Aug 16 10:06:54 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  592. [Sun Aug 16 10:07:00 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <False Prophecy>'
  593. [Sun Aug 16 10:07:00 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  594. [Sun Aug 16 10:07:01 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  595. [Sun Aug 16 10:07:08 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes > Canadian Armed Forces <'
  596. [Sun Aug 16 10:07:11 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  597. [Sun Aug 16 10:07:17 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TL>'
  598. [Sun Aug 16 10:07:19 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Apok>'
  599. [Sun Aug 16 10:07:47 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  600. [Sun Aug 16 10:08:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'TLG?'
  601. [Sun Aug 16 10:08:21 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'abstain'
  602. [Sun Aug 16 10:08:31 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'RoE?'
  603. [Sun Aug 16 10:08:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10-0-2 vote passes'
  604. [Sun Aug 16 10:09:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, moving on...'
  605. [Sun Aug 16 10:09:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'While Thal moves us forward, if you haven't announced your name/guild yet please do so so I can add you to the roll'
  606. [Sun Aug 16 10:09:28 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We've had a few latecomers i believe'
  607. [Sun Aug 16 10:09:39 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Phinius <Tempus>'
  608. [Sun Aug 16 10:09:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Bonlgon has some input before we move on'
  609. [Sun Aug 16 10:10:06 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would like to revist the time to engange. Primary stays as it is. Secondary moves to 1 possibly 2 hours to engage...'
  610. [Sun Aug 16 10:10:26 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I second that'
  611. [Sun Aug 16 10:11:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does the group feel the secondary window should be adjusted? anybody have opionions why it should NOT be?'
  612. [Sun Aug 16 10:11:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'secondary window time to engage*'
  613. [Sun Aug 16 10:11:39 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, we have a second. moving to vote'
  614. [Sun Aug 16 10:12:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'actually'
  615. [Sun Aug 16 10:12:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'should the vote be for 1 or 2 hours'
  616. [Sun Aug 16 10:12:16 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'anybody with opionion, speak up'
  617. [Sun Aug 16 10:12:33 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 hrs seems legit'
  618. [Sun Aug 16 10:12:37 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It should stay the same in both rotations.'
  619. [Sun Aug 16 10:12:47 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, '2 hours seems fair, just to speed things up'
  620. [Sun Aug 16 10:13:05 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We shouldnt have to consult a lawyer to keep track of the rules before we engage a mob, and this is getting pretty convoluted.'
  621. [Sun Aug 16 10:13:18 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'wait didnt we vote on this already?'
  622. [Sun Aug 16 10:13:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What is the current mechism for officially declaring when a mob spawns at the moment? '
  623. [Sun Aug 16 10:13:36 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Before we made Primary/Secondary Fatherdoom'
  624. [Sun Aug 16 10:13:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I dont think we have a rule in place for this. And its important for a lot of reasons'
  625. [Sun Aug 16 10:13:49 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so maybe we should have a note that, if you plan on joining the rotation, you must get verified on the ragefire forums? (I know that seems obvious, but having a posted thingy never hurts), just so there is a step by step listed process'
  626. [Sun Aug 16 10:13:53 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'opps :D'
  627. [Sun Aug 16 10:14:13 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'GM's check server logs in the event of a dispute it seems'
  628. [Sun Aug 16 10:14:26 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no, we voted on primary secondary first, then on time to engage'
  629. [Sun Aug 16 10:14:47 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and as i said i would like to revist it for secondary time zone'
  630. [Sun Aug 16 10:15:18 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so secondary slot, two hours to engage?'
  631. [Sun Aug 16 10:15:23 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed'
  632. [Sun Aug 16 10:15:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Bon has made a proposal and it's been seconded. Let your vote reflect your opinion:'
  633. [Sun Aug 16 10:15:29 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Currently it makes no sense to sit around in your primetime and wait 3 hours for a Secondary guild to wake up their members by Batphone to kill a mob. If you want ekstra loot, work hard for it imo. Cut it to 2 hours.'
  634. [Sun Aug 16 10:15:49 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This is moving along pretty quick today for some reason. Seems pretty force feed atm'
  635. [Sun Aug 16 10:16:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The time to engage window in the Secondary timeslot is now 2 hours. Yes/no/Abstain'
  636. [Sun Aug 16 10:16:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  637. [Sun Aug 16 10:16:20 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <False Prophecy>'
  638. [Sun Aug 16 10:16:26 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  639. [Sun Aug 16 10:16:27 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Apok>'
  640. [Sun Aug 16 10:16:28 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <CaF>'
  641. [Sun Aug 16 10:16:31 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  642. [Sun Aug 16 10:16:34 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  643. [Sun Aug 16 10:16:35 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well I don't want to be here all day Elend, I like the pace it is moving, in fact I think it should move faster'
  644. [Sun Aug 16 10:16:36 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  645. [Sun Aug 16 10:16:55 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TL>'
  646. [Sun Aug 16 10:17:04 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  647. [Sun Aug 16 10:18:02 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  648. [Sun Aug 16 10:18:21 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'need a vote from TLG'
  649. [Sun Aug 16 10:19:07 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'think theyre raiding maybe?'
  650. [Sun Aug 16 10:19:13 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'RoE is absent, TLG abstaining?'
  651. [Sun Aug 16 10:20:23 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '9 for, 1 against, 2 abstain, vote passes'
  652. [Sun Aug 16 10:20:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, so we've decided that the time to engage window is now 2 hours in the secondary timeslot.'
  653. [Sun Aug 16 10:20:58 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Keep in mind, GMs have exact spawn times. Any attempt to abuse or mis-represent spawn times won't fly.'
  654. [Sun Aug 16 10:21:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Moving on...'
  655. [Sun Aug 16 10:21:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Everyone please open the document linked in the agenda'
  656. [Sun Aug 16 10:21:26 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'to quickly review'
  657. [Sun Aug 16 10:21:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or follow along'
  658. [Sun Aug 16 10:21:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'There were some rewords in there. Which we will clarify now'
  659. [Sun Aug 16 10:22:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Some things need to be re-worded in our current rules'
  660. [Sun Aug 16 10:22:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So that they make more sense'
  661. [Sun Aug 16 10:22:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'There are a few things not voted on in there yet. We will modify if the vo tes fail'
  662. [Sun Aug 16 10:22:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but Most of the rules have been reworded for clarity. '
  663. [Sun Aug 16 10:23:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This document will be listed as reference material'
  664. [Sun Aug 16 10:23:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please review the section highlighted where it describes mobs spawning at FFA timeslot'
  665. [Sun Aug 16 10:23:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We are going to vote to adopt this verbiage'
  666. [Sun Aug 16 10:23:58 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'since it did not exist previously'
  667. [Sun Aug 16 10:24:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If the time is during serverwide FFA hours, any guild may engage/contest the mob and the mob remains FFA indefinitely until killed, even if engaged by the NA ready guild. yes/no/abstain'
  668. [Sun Aug 16 10:24:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote Now'
  669. [Sun Aug 16 10:25:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry, diddnt halt for discussion'
  670. [Sun Aug 16 10:25:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anybody have any questions before we vote'
  671. [Sun Aug 16 10:25:18 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Wait What?'
  672. [Sun Aug 16 10:25:22 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Hold on'
  673. [Sun Aug 16 10:25:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Aye holding'
  674. [Sun Aug 16 10:25:30 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this only effects the Euro time slot'
  675. [Sun Aug 16 10:25:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Aye, you ahve to read the hole section V for context'
  676. [Sun Aug 16 10:26:01 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If a mob spawns in ANY time period -- it should naturally move through the timezone -- Eg if its still up and it hits US time - US time gets a rotation guild 3 hr window'
  677. [Sun Aug 16 10:26:01 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Why would it only effect the euro time slot, and not the na time slot.'
  678. [Sun Aug 16 10:26:14 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what if a guild engaged the mob before the EU window opened?'
  679. [Sun Aug 16 10:26:16 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Because there is no FFA periode prior to the US tiem slot'
  680. [Sun Aug 16 10:26:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '^ '
  681. [Sun Aug 16 10:26:36 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the slot extends until 3am (hard cap) per rule if the next up na guild gets the mob, say at midnight or 1am est'
  682. [Sun Aug 16 10:26:46 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'would it still be FFA or would they need to stop engaging said mob to yeild to EU?'
  683. [Sun Aug 16 10:26:46 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I dont believe that we should using the word of guilds as to mobs spawned, if its with in that narrow window of error. It should imo be engaged'
  684. [Sun Aug 16 10:26:52 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'For example - A mob Spawns in FFA -- no guild engages it -- Its still up in EU time -- EU Guild A) now owns that mob because it is ACTIVE in thier timeslot'
  685. [Sun Aug 16 10:26:54 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as in the instance of TL and Naggy this week'
  686. [Sun Aug 16 10:27:02 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The only time that matters is the time you ENGAGED the mob. (yes people can ''offtank'' mobs for ages) but engaged is all you should worry about'
  687. [Sun Aug 16 10:27:15 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Agree Matthias'
  688. [Sun Aug 16 10:27:25 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the EU guild can kill the mob regardless'
  689. [Sun Aug 16 10:27:29 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or any eu guild'
  690. [Sun Aug 16 10:27:30 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Time should rule on in this rotation'
  691. [Sun Aug 16 10:27:31 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'TLG seconds FP idea'
  692. [Sun Aug 16 10:27:36 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, '/4 I think there are 2 different wordings for the same situation unless I"m reading something wrong'
  693. [Sun Aug 16 10:27:44 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'spawn time as a marker is looking at the problem backward. Engage time is all that matters. (think about future expansion swhen mobs ar eup a looon gtime)'
  694. [Sun Aug 16 10:28:14 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Going forward, mobs are sitting up a long time....engaged is the timer we should use. not spawn time.'
  695. [Sun Aug 16 10:28:25 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, '(Some of you have done TLP before. please rmember :P)'
  696. [Sun Aug 16 10:28:53 2015] Azalene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we can change that in the future if we need to'
  697. [Sun Aug 16 10:28:56 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If a mob is not engaged - and rolls into antoher timeslot -- if it is active it is now property of that timeslot --'
  698. [Sun Aug 16 10:29:21 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If a mob is not engaged when entering EU or NA time zones from a FFA period of time, that mob now belongs to the current guild that is on EU or NA rotation. That is how I see this. there is already a huge FFA window, extending it into our current rotation will ONLY slow down the already slow rotation.'
  699. [Sun Aug 16 10:29:53 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i agree smoe'
  700. [Sun Aug 16 10:29:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you would be effectively be cutting 3 hours of engagement time from NA window as it transitions to FFA... you're ok with that matthias?'
  701. [Sun Aug 16 10:30:01 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Engaged time is all that matters. Spawn time should be ignored. When a mob is engaged is the simplest'
  702. [Sun Aug 16 10:30:16 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we would do the same wtih Euro window thalanos.. same rules apply'
  703. [Sun Aug 16 10:30:21 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If a guild is in na time, setting up and it creeps into ffa, well they are going to be first engaging in ffa time anywyas.'
  704. [Sun Aug 16 10:30:36 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'maybe ;)'
  705. [Sun Aug 16 10:30:51 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'engaged time is the only way enforceable as we progress. '
  706. [Sun Aug 16 10:30:55 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it would be simpler to eliminate all extensions honestly'
  707. [Sun Aug 16 10:31:05 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i think the rules should be stacked to benefit the time slots the most'
  708. [Sun Aug 16 10:31:09 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'i think we should not use the language of engage time, but of world time or something like that'
  709. [Sun Aug 16 10:31:24 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'When you pull the mob. Thats the only moment that matters. '
  710. [Sun Aug 16 10:31:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why'
  711. [Sun Aug 16 10:31:25 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'server time, etc.'
  712. [Sun Aug 16 10:31:33 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, '< Marthisdil is afk a few minutes. Eaza can vote for RoP if any votes come up...brb'
  713. [Sun Aug 16 10:31:37 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Everything should be engaged not spawned. It will be to hard to track in the future when we have dozens of mobs. We are already finding that guilds are not tracking raid targets now.'
  714. [Sun Aug 16 10:31:38 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'because something has to decide whether you are allowed to engage'
  715. [Sun Aug 16 10:31:44 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'like thats what the whole rotation is about'
  716. [Sun Aug 16 10:31:53 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'you cant decide if you're allowed to engage by whether you're engaged'
  717. [Sun Aug 16 10:32:00 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agree elend.'
  718. [Sun Aug 16 10:32:23 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Follow your windows, but its hinged on when you engaged. Simple as butter.'
  719. [Sun Aug 16 10:32:34 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'there are two elements, spawn time and real/world/server time, one of them is deciding whetehr you are allowed to engage'
  720. [Sun Aug 16 10:32:50 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Jain, spawn time doesnt matter.'
  721. [Sun Aug 16 10:32:57 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the real world time is the only thing that does'
  722. [Sun Aug 16 10:32:58 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm agreeing with you'
  723. [Sun Aug 16 10:33:05 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm suggesting clearer language'
  724. [Sun Aug 16 10:33:05 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, '/huggles'
  725. [Sun Aug 16 10:33:06 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yea Jain is agreeing with you'
  726. [Sun Aug 16 10:33:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So we're essentially removing window extensions?'
  727. [Sun Aug 16 10:33:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'otherwise 5 guilds will contest and all say, well we all engaged and it goes off engage time'
  728. [Sun Aug 16 10:33:50 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'But time windows will still be in play.'
  729. [Sun Aug 16 10:34:07 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so in usa/eu , there will be a set guild. in ffa, 3 can engage and dps race.'
  730. [Sun Aug 16 10:34:15 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd suggest wording it that mobs handoff to the next timeslot at that time'
  731. [Sun Aug 16 10:34:38 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Suggesting that as a base, and clarify from there'
  732. [Sun Aug 16 10:36:20 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Saytonic <CaF< i have to pee brb'
  733. [Sun Aug 16 10:36:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, so...'
  734. [Sun Aug 16 10:36:35 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if Im understanding what was discussed'
  735. [Sun Aug 16 10:36:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We're removing window extensions and making each timeslot flat'
  736. [Sun Aug 16 10:36:58 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if a mob rolls over into another window, it becomes that timeslot's kill?'
  737. [Sun Aug 16 10:37:27 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Correct'
  738. [Sun Aug 16 10:37:42 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'keep in mind it would be beneficial for a guild in NA to let it rll over into FFA since it then wouldnt count as their NA kill'
  739. [Sun Aug 16 10:37:42 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Here is the only concession (and you all know how much I don't like concessions, provisions, etc.) i think should be made here:'
  740. [Sun Aug 16 10:37:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Is anyone opposed to this? Reason it shouldn't be this way?'
  741. [Sun Aug 16 10:38:08 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i think we should keep NA extentions in for this reason'
  742. [Sun Aug 16 10:38:22 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, '< back'
  743. [Sun Aug 16 10:38:36 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'When the server enters the next time slot, any rotated spawned mob is handed off to the next time slot, with the exception of if the spawned mob has aggro then the handoff is delayed until aggro is cleared from the mob.'
  744. [Sun Aug 16 10:39:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'This is clear, concise, and GM's can verify in a dispute'
  745. [Sun Aug 16 10:39:38 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes that sounds fair, except waht i brought up'
  746. [Sun Aug 16 10:39:58 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree wit hJain'
  747. [Sun Aug 16 10:40:14 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'is that a second?'
  748. [Sun Aug 16 10:40:18 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'What if as an NA concession we cut it back to midnight EST?'
  749. [Sun Aug 16 10:40:34 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Or is that too much'
  750. [Sun Aug 16 10:40:43 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I woudl say engaged by a raid force rather than simply having aggro though, lots of ways to game "aggro"'
  751. [Sun Aug 16 10:40:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Hmm what is the reasoning? The NA extension was just removed, giving FFA essentially 2 more hours'
  752. [Sun Aug 16 10:41:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'There are, but a GM can't verify if it was engaged by a raid force'
  753. [Sun Aug 16 10:41:19 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm more just asking, how can we make that fair, to Tarri'
  754. [Sun Aug 16 10:41:21 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Changing the slot hours from 11/6/7 to 8/8/8. This makes it an even playing ground for all situations and will force guilds to really choose what time zones they know they can field a raid in. My suggestion would be FFA: 2AM-10AM, Slot A: 10AM-6PM (4PM-12PM Euro), and Slot B: 6PM-2AM. Get rid of all "pushback" windows. '
  755. [Sun Aug 16 10:41:58 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i second that'
  756. [Sun Aug 16 10:42:12 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Agree'
  757. [Sun Aug 16 10:42:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Can we finish the amendment to this language before introducing new topics please?'
  758. [Sun Aug 16 10:42:56 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry thalanos'
  759. [Sun Aug 16 10:43:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It's ok... '
  760. [Sun Aug 16 10:43:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we will revisit'
  761. [Sun Aug 16 10:43:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So...'
  762. [Sun Aug 16 10:43:17 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'also, maybe include time zone referenes'
  763. [Sun Aug 16 10:43:26 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i would again like to bring up my concern'
  764. [Sun Aug 16 10:43:42 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd like to hear more Tarri'
  765. [Sun Aug 16 10:44:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, Tarri's concern is that it would be beneficial for NA guilds to not have the new rule in place so that they can get a potentially free FFA kill'
  766. [Sun Aug 16 10:44:26 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think one risk of doing that, Tarri... is that if it rolls over to FFA, it may not be your kill anymore, if there's another guild waiting around '
  767. [Sun Aug 16 10:44:28 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right, if naggy spawns a midngight, they just wait until 1:01 to engage'
  768. [Sun Aug 16 10:44:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'There are ~3 guilds on the rotation who will probably contest that mob I believe'
  769. [Sun Aug 16 10:45:51 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'very well, as long as everyone is ok with that.'
  770. [Sun Aug 16 10:45:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So, basically, the risk of losing the mob would be enough to keep you from letting it go FFA?'
  771. [Sun Aug 16 10:46:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'But it's a good point Tarri, thank you :)'
  772. [Sun Aug 16 10:46:13 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I see your point, definitely'
  773. [Sun Aug 16 10:46:25 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It just seems like a gamble I don't think any of us would take'
  774. [Sun Aug 16 10:46:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, so lets move this to a vote... one moment'
  775. [Sun Aug 16 10:47:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'When the server enters the next time slot, any rotated spawned mob is handed off to the next time slot, with the exception of if the spawned mob has aggro. If it does, the handoff is delayed until aggro is cleared from the mob. yes/no/abstain'
  776. [Sun Aug 16 10:47:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote Now'
  777. [Sun Aug 16 10:48:01 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <False Prophecy>'
  778. [Sun Aug 16 10:48:09 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes >CaF<'
  779. [Sun Aug 16 10:48:11 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  780. [Sun Aug 16 10:48:13 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TLG>'
  781. [Sun Aug 16 10:48:14 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  782. [Sun Aug 16 10:48:21 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  783. [Sun Aug 16 10:48:28 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  784. [Sun Aug 16 10:48:33 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  785. [Sun Aug 16 10:48:36 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Apok>'
  786. [Sun Aug 16 10:48:51 2015] Janglespur tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <RoE>'
  787. [Sun Aug 16 10:48:56 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TL>'
  788. [Sun Aug 16 10:49:09 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus> ( Alhtough I guarantee this is going to bring up some issues with *aggro*'
  789. [Sun Aug 16 10:49:19 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'unaninimous 12 yes, passes'
  790. [Sun Aug 16 10:49:33 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if it has agro it has agro'
  791. [Sun Aug 16 10:49:36 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not much to dispute'
  792. [Sun Aug 16 10:49:48 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the meeting is now like 3hrs long'
  793. [Sun Aug 16 10:49:51 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'whats left on the agenda'
  794. [Sun Aug 16 10:50:09 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, '< will be needing to leave soon (happy wife, happy life - sorry fellas) :)'
  795. [Sun Aug 16 10:50:14 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'btw instead if including notes with your vote, after the vote, if you want an objection netered in the minutes please state so separately and I will add, lets try not to use the vote mechanism as a platform for discussion, this will help me a lot'
  796. [Sun Aug 16 10:50:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'next up , implementing a rule that will allow us to randomize'
  797. [Sun Aug 16 10:50:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the rotation'
  798. [Sun Aug 16 10:50:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'per the clarification document 4d'
  799. [Sun Aug 16 10:51:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The cycle order may be randomized during a council meeting pending a majority vote of the council guilds. '
  800. [Sun Aug 16 10:51:18 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anybody have any questions on this vote? Pretty straight forward'
  801. [Sun Aug 16 10:51:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The cycle order may be randomized during a council meeting pending a majority vote of the council guilds. Yes/no/abstain'
  802. [Sun Aug 16 10:51:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote Now'
  803. [Sun Aug 16 10:52:04 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  804. [Sun Aug 16 10:52:05 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Wait'
  805. [Sun Aug 16 10:52:10 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'waiting...'
  806. [Sun Aug 16 10:52:16 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  807. [Sun Aug 16 10:52:23 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Do raid guilds currently up for rotation kills get shuffled out?'
  808. [Sun Aug 16 10:52:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this verbiage is currently allowing us to modify the cycle. we're not voting to make change yet'
  809. [Sun Aug 16 10:53:03 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that is a good point matthias, and i would say no it should not'
  810. [Sun Aug 16 10:53:08 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Apologies ..'
  811. [Sun Aug 16 10:53:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please continue the vote. '
  812. [Sun Aug 16 10:53:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The cycle order may be randomized during a council meeting pending a majority vote of the council guilds. Yes/no/abstain'
  813. [Sun Aug 16 10:53:50 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  814. [Sun Aug 16 10:53:56 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes TLG'
  815. [Sun Aug 16 10:53:57 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  816. [Sun Aug 16 10:53:58 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  817. [Sun Aug 16 10:53:59 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  818. [Sun Aug 16 10:54:00 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  819. [Sun Aug 16 10:54:04 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <False Prophecy>'
  820. [Sun Aug 16 10:54:08 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TL>'
  821. [Sun Aug 16 10:54:33 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Apok>'
  822. [Sun Aug 16 10:54:42 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <CaF>'
  823. [Sun Aug 16 10:55:00 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Rosengard>'
  824. [Sun Aug 16 10:55:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'RoE Vote? last call'
  825. [Sun Aug 16 10:56:13 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '11 for, 0 opposed, 1 abstain, vote passes'
  826. [Sun Aug 16 10:56:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, moving on'
  827. [Sun Aug 16 10:58:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote to allow the Secretary to reword the Rules to reflect everything that was reflected /reworded in the clarification document. (Which will also be linked in the reference tab on the spreadsheet). yes/no/abstain'
  828. [Sun Aug 16 10:58:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'any questions on this? It's just to reword the rules we voted on, etc'
  829. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:01 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes < CaF >'
  830. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote to allow the Secretary to reword the Rules to reflect everything that was reflected /reworded in the clarification document. (Which will also be linked in the reference tab on the spreadsheet). yes/no/abstain'
  831. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:09 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  832. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote '
  833. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:16 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  834. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:21 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  835. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:22 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  836. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:29 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <False Prophecy'
  837. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:35 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  838. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:36 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i need clarification before i vote please'
  839. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:39 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  840. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'go ahead father'
  841. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:44 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes TLG'
  842. [Sun Aug 16 10:59:54 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Stepping away for a brief moment.. Scrubble is taking over on the behalf of RG'
  843. [Sun Aug 16 11:00:04 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TL>'
  844. [Sun Aug 16 11:00:23 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the removal of a guild by agenda item, what exactly does that mean? it is highlighted on the rules amendment'
  845. [Sun Aug 16 11:00:43 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, '1 F'
  846. [Sun Aug 16 11:00:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that will be covered under violations and punishments'
  847. [Sun Aug 16 11:00:58 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'dont worry about that, it will be a new topic '
  848. [Sun Aug 16 11:01:13 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so this vote only concrens the area discissed, not the whole document'
  849. [Sun Aug 16 11:01:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Well most of the document is just a repeat of existing rules. '
  850. [Sun Aug 16 11:01:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The changes were discussed'
  851. [Sun Aug 16 11:01:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'aside from the one you just mentioned'
  852. [Sun Aug 16 11:01:59 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok, thank you'
  853. [Sun Aug 16 11:01:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Jain wrote this up without knowledge of me creationg a new section for that'
  854. [Sun Aug 16 11:02:09 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Apok>'
  855. [Sun Aug 16 11:02:17 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yeah sorry this was just an attempt to streamline the current rules'
  856. [Sun Aug 16 11:02:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It makes a whole lot of sense for a user who hasn't participated in these meetings, so it is much appreciated'
  857. [Sun Aug 16 11:03:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, we have... 10 votes?'
  858. [Sun Aug 16 11:03:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry tallying'
  859. [Sun Aug 16 11:03:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no RoE or RG?'
  860. [Sun Aug 16 11:03:39 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'RG voted'
  861. [Sun Aug 16 11:03:41 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'RG said yes'
  862. [Sun Aug 16 11:03:44 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Bon voted yes, right before you reposted'
  863. [Sun Aug 16 11:03:48 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '11-0-1 RoE absent'
  864. [Sun Aug 16 11:03:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ah, got it'
  865. [Sun Aug 16 11:04:21 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, vote passed. Jain will reword where necessary, and place the clarification document in referenced information.'
  866. [Sun Aug 16 11:04:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, discuss the randomimzation of the rotation'
  867. [Sun Aug 16 11:05:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We need to randomize it so that it's staggered'
  868. [Sun Aug 16 11:05:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It was an oversight to place it in alphabetical order, we could not correct it after it had launched though.'
  869. [Sun Aug 16 11:05:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I suggest 3 members of the council meeting in game, and using /rand to randomize'
  870. [Sun Aug 16 11:05:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We're looking to correct that now.'
  871. [Sun Aug 16 11:05:34 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Im in Commonlands -'
  872. [Sun Aug 16 11:05:35 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'give every current rotation guild a number and put them in random.org and then that will be the new rotation'
  873. [Sun Aug 16 11:05:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The issue is verification though manv'
  874. [Sun Aug 16 11:06:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'That could also be fine, Marth, it's not a multi-control method tho'
  875. [Sun Aug 16 11:06:18 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'random.org seems down :('
  876. [Sun Aug 16 11:06:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry I work for a bank, I think in terms of dual-control, etc.'
  877. [Sun Aug 16 11:06:27 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'nm its working now'
  878. [Sun Aug 16 11:06:29 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'just fraps the random and post it to youtube?'
  879. [Sun Aug 16 11:06:41 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well it would be Thalanos that does the randoming and he is a neutral party'
  880. [Sun Aug 16 11:06:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I can do that if everyone is ok with it.'
  881. [Sun Aug 16 11:06:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Chairman two members?'
  882. [Sun Aug 16 11:07:06 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'pretty sure thalanos is working for the CIA but not confirmed'
  883. [Sun Aug 16 11:07:07 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'random.org is working fine for me'
  884. [Sun Aug 16 11:07:07 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Neutrals can be bought! saytonic is a good example'
  885. [Sun Aug 16 11:07:10 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'or Chairman uses random.org'
  886. [Sun Aug 16 11:07:15 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I will make myself available since Iwe're not on raotation yet as well'
  887. [Sun Aug 16 11:07:36 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'This all seems silly but we have to find something that avoids people complaining about the order'
  888. [Sun Aug 16 11:07:48 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed'
  889. [Sun Aug 16 11:07:55 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I will also make myself available as we are not on rotation yet either'
  890. [Sun Aug 16 11:07:56 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Trust me I have gotten enough tells about Apok being first up, even though Alpha is literally as transparent of an order as you can get'
  891. [Sun Aug 16 11:07:59 2015] Azalene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'will anyone complain about the order?'
  892. [Sun Aug 16 11:08:07 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or set a time and place to do the randoms, and whoever wants to have a designee there can'
  893. [Sun Aug 16 11:08:19 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Why not settle it right now?'
  894. [Sun Aug 16 11:08:31 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We should duel to the death for it'
  895. [Sun Aug 16 11:08:36 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What about the guilds currently up for kills Can i elect to keep 1 ?'
  896. [Sun Aug 16 11:08:41 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Come commonlands and random I mean, 30ppl here Im sure 5 of us could handle it while we keep this going'
  897. [Sun Aug 16 11:08:47 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'id like to second phinius's proposal'
  898. [Sun Aug 16 11:08:48 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Establish the brackets eh, BotB in the Arena?'
  899. [Sun Aug 16 11:09:06 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I motion to settle this right now, give everyone current rotation guild a number and then randomize them via random.org (screenshot confirmation)'
  900. [Sun Aug 16 11:09:16 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Motion for the chairman to fraps it on random.org and post to youtube. Does anyone second?'
  901. [Sun Aug 16 11:09:16 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'any seconds?'
  902. [Sun Aug 16 11:09:22 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second'
  903. [Sun Aug 16 11:09:25 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I second that'
  904. [Sun Aug 16 11:09:40 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm fine for Thal to do it right now, post the order, and then just unanimous vote on it'
  905. [Sun Aug 16 11:09:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'To address matthias' concern, can we add the stipulation that it takes affect tomorrow at noon EST so guilds can continue with their plans for the next 24 hours?'
  906. [Sun Aug 16 11:09:57 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Well RoE isnt here tho'
  907. [Sun Aug 16 11:10:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or do we want to do it all right now.'
  908. [Sun Aug 16 11:10:15 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The current cycle really shouldn't be altered'
  909. [Sun Aug 16 11:10:18 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thalanos - Doing it all now would adrss it '
  910. [Sun Aug 16 11:10:20 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It should change at the next ffa period imol'
  911. [Sun Aug 16 11:10:38 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I second Elend'
  912. [Sun Aug 16 11:10:40 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I dont need to have 3 mobs in window at once'
  913. [Sun Aug 16 11:10:42 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Only future unset cycles should be able to be altered'
  914. [Sun Aug 16 11:10:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, so random it, just dont change the current cycle?'
  915. [Sun Aug 16 11:10:57 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the guilds that are currently up should be allowed to stay on what they have but after they kill their targets then the randomized rotation takes effect'
  916. [Sun Aug 16 11:10:59 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'At the next ffa period imo'
  917. [Sun Aug 16 11:11:13 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'You mean like the next FFA period tonight ?'
  918. [Sun Aug 16 11:11:21 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes'
  919. [Sun Aug 16 11:11:24 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes, it gives all the guilds who want to raid today a chance to do so'
  920. [Sun Aug 16 11:11:32 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we start fresh with the euro time zone with the random order'
  921. [Sun Aug 16 11:11:33 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Agreed'
  922. [Sun Aug 16 11:11:34 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed'
  923. [Sun Aug 16 11:11:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Except that, none of them are spawning in the next 12 hours'
  924. [Sun Aug 16 11:11:49 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'This is going to cause people to bitch when Apok gets to re-up on the rotation even though they just had their spots'
  925. [Sun Aug 16 11:11:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'aside from CT'
  926. [Sun Aug 16 11:11:57 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'shh thalanos'
  927. [Sun Aug 16 11:12:00 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Then its moot'
  928. [Sun Aug 16 11:12:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Lol'
  929. [Sun Aug 16 11:12:13 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Luck of the draw, can't change if Apok are being lucky.'
  930. [Sun Aug 16 11:12:13 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd say after first full cycle of each rotation, the new randomed would go into effect'
  931. [Sun Aug 16 11:12:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'shrug'
  932. [Sun Aug 16 11:12:28 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vox and Naggy open before the ffa period, 12 and 13 hours'
  933. [Sun Aug 16 11:12:50 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Its all pure RNG nobody has cause to comp.lain'
  934. [Sun Aug 16 11:12:51 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think the randomization should take effect at the end of today's FFA period'
  935. [Sun Aug 16 11:12:57 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If people are fine with manipulating an in-process order than far be it from me to stand in the way'
  936. [Sun Aug 16 11:13:00 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I second Manvaril'
  937. [Sun Aug 16 11:13:01 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'just randomize the remainder of the order'
  938. [Sun Aug 16 11:13:10 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'put guilds that just got kills at bottom'
  939. [Sun Aug 16 11:13:24 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'So we aren't actually randonming?'
  940. [Sun Aug 16 11:13:30 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that is reasonable phinius'
  941. [Sun Aug 16 11:13:31 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We're going to random some, and assign others?'
  942. [Sun Aug 16 11:13:45 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'otherwise apok is gonna get randomed to first slot'
  943. [Sun Aug 16 11:13:48 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and you'll all bitch'
  944. [Sun Aug 16 11:13:53 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no it should be randomized and then put into place after todays ffa period'
  945. [Sun Aug 16 11:14:06 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Then show some maturity folks, if apok get first slot agian, so be it. its life�!'
  946. [Sun Aug 16 11:14:08 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Its all random - all the guilds get shuffled'
  947. [Sun Aug 16 11:14:16 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we don't know the randomized rotation yet Pinius you are going on a hypothetical'
  948. [Sun Aug 16 11:14:16 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'All random or nothing, no one gets placed.'
  949. [Sun Aug 16 11:14:27 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If we change up a current cycle, its all random or nothing imo'
  950. [Sun Aug 16 11:14:41 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Exactly - Randomize this Start it after tonight FFA'
  951. [Sun Aug 16 11:14:45 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree with Smoelf'
  952. [Sun Aug 16 11:14:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If we're randomizing now, make your bed and sleep in it'
  953. [Sun Aug 16 11:14:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'is anyone opposed to a complete reshuffle, starting tonight at FFA'
  954. [Sun Aug 16 11:15:20 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Rosengard isnt'
  955. [Sun Aug 16 11:15:32 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'shall we vote on it?'
  956. [Sun Aug 16 11:15:41 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes'
  957. [Sun Aug 16 11:15:42 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thalanos - for the logs - can we construct this in the form of a vote '
  958. [Sun Aug 16 11:15:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we will when its time to vote'
  959. [Sun Aug 16 11:15:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, ':P'
  960. [Sun Aug 16 11:16:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote to completely randomize the rotation order, taking effect at the next FFA period tonight. Yes/no/abstain'
  961. [Sun Aug 16 11:16:54 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  962. [Sun Aug 16 11:17:06 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  963. [Sun Aug 16 11:17:07 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  964. [Sun Aug 16 11:17:14 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  965. [Sun Aug 16 11:17:15 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Flase Prophecy>'
  966. [Sun Aug 16 11:17:18 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  967. [Sun Aug 16 11:17:20 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Wow'
  968. [Sun Aug 16 11:17:21 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Apok>'
  969. [Sun Aug 16 11:17:24 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  970. [Sun Aug 16 11:17:28 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TL>'
  971. [Sun Aug 16 11:17:31 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes TLG'
  972. [Sun Aug 16 11:18:15 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <RG?>'
  973. [Sun Aug 16 11:18:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'CAF and RoE '
  974. [Sun Aug 16 11:18:51 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10 for, none opposed, 2 abstain?'
  975. [Sun Aug 16 11:18:57 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <caf>'
  976. [Sun Aug 16 11:19:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '11 for, none opposed, 2 abstain?'
  977. [Sun Aug 16 11:19:13 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '1 abstain'
  978. [Sun Aug 16 11:19:53 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '11 for, none opposed, 1 abstain, passes'
  979. [Sun Aug 16 11:20:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote passed, I will randomize the order and screenshot it, posting it on ragefireforums'
  980. [Sun Aug 16 11:20:23 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'after the meeting/screenshot I will update the spreadsheet to reflect the new order'
  981. [Sun Aug 16 11:21:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok. Now that we've finished up that topic, should we introduce the possibility of a new rotation?'
  982. [Sun Aug 16 11:21:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'There was talk of 8/8/8... should we entertain this? '
  983. [Sun Aug 16 11:21:58 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I second the 8/8/8 that Matthias threw on the table'
  984. [Sun Aug 16 11:22:01 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Simply changing the times - not a new rotation'
  985. [Sun Aug 16 11:22:09 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Changing the slot hours from 11/6/7 to 8/8/8. This makes it an even playing ground for all situations and will force guilds to really choose what time zones they know they can field a raid in. My suggestion would be FFA: 2AM-10AM, Slot A: 10AM-6PM (4PM-12PM Euro), and Slot B: 6PM-2AM. Get rid of all "pushback" windows. '
  986. [Sun Aug 16 11:22:21 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd rather move on with the rest of the agenda so we're not here all day, but whatever you all want'
  987. [Sun Aug 16 11:22:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Question - how does expanding the window force a guild to choose the time zone they can raid in?'
  988. [Sun Aug 16 11:22:43 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Might as well implement everything new wit hthe new rotation that we just voted yes to'
  989. [Sun Aug 16 11:23:15 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Apolgies - Was simply coping a post i had made earlier to hash things out with a guildy - you can remove that verbage Jain'
  990. [Sun Aug 16 11:23:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Well, it's kind of your rationale for the change, so if not that, what is the rationale'
  991. [Sun Aug 16 11:23:51 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'currently I think the FFA time is too large'
  992. [Sun Aug 16 11:23:59 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agreed'
  993. [Sun Aug 16 11:23:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree that this is significant enough that we need to table it. It was not provided as part of the agenda, and therefore was not taken into consideration with any of the rules. It's worth discussing though. '
  994. [Sun Aug 16 11:24:01 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '8/8/8 Gices everyone a 1/3 chance at a spawn '
  995. [Sun Aug 16 11:24:05 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It sets back the rotation by way too much '
  996. [Sun Aug 16 11:24:18 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'casual raiding guilds shouldn't be responsible for kill until 2AM...'
  997. [Sun Aug 16 11:24:20 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I bring this up because part of coming to the table here is for us to negotiate and make concessions here with each other'
  998. [Sun Aug 16 11:24:31 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Now that we just removed the Added hours, we need to prolong the current Timezones to 8hours'
  999. [Sun Aug 16 11:24:41 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'also, 2am what time zone'
  1000. [Sun Aug 16 11:24:48 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'All timezones are EST'
  1001. [Sun Aug 16 11:24:52 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Times*'
  1002. [Sun Aug 16 11:24:55 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'With windows goe - it should be a fair 8/8/8 across the board'
  1003. [Sun Aug 16 11:25:13 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Apologies - trying to type to quickly - '
  1004. [Sun Aug 16 11:25:23 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'EST time is also -5 GMT in case anyone was wondering.'
  1005. [Sun Aug 16 11:25:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If we're going to change the rotation time periods, there is alot that needs to be considered, and this meeting will certainly run as long as our last.'
  1006. [Sun Aug 16 11:25:40 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lets stay on agenda'
  1007. [Sun Aug 16 11:26:00 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hey just to be clear, these rules are in effect immediately right?'
  1008. [Sun Aug 16 11:26:21 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'should be'
  1009. [Sun Aug 16 11:26:23 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'unless otherwise specified'
  1010. [Sun Aug 16 11:26:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'unless otherwise'
  1011. [Sun Aug 16 11:26:27 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well, from the moment jain posts them'
  1012. [Sun Aug 16 11:26:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'stated'
  1013. [Sun Aug 16 11:27:13 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'To re-iterate guys... to add anything you want to the agenda, please email me prior to the meeting'
  1014. [Sun Aug 16 11:27:16 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I apologize if its confusing - im simply motioning to modify the window times'
  1015. [Sun Aug 16 11:27:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Many guilds can attest that all of their concerns are addressed'
  1016. [Sun Aug 16 11:27:48 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i move to not move on moving window times'
  1017. [Sun Aug 16 11:28:06 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Next up... Meeting Frequency & Ememrgency Amendments'
  1018. [Sun Aug 16 11:28:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you look at the agenda, I proposed some options for how often we should meet'
  1019. [Sun Aug 16 11:28:39 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Those being:'
  1020. [Sun Aug 16 11:28:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'a) One week prior to an expansion launch'
  1021. [Sun Aug 16 11:29:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'B) One week prior to current expansion FFA period ending.'
  1022. [Sun Aug 16 11:29:13 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'C) Emergency meeting called to address an issue that cannot wait. 24-48 hour notice?'
  1023. [Sun Aug 16 11:30:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anybody have any modifications or differring preferred times'
  1024. [Sun Aug 16 11:30:36 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'who is able to call an emergency meeting?'
  1025. [Sun Aug 16 11:30:36 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why can't we just say when the next meeting is at the end of the meetings?'
  1026. [Sun Aug 16 11:30:52 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd say 2 weeks before expansion so in case we need another one to hammer things out, we've got the time'
  1027. [Sun Aug 16 11:30:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it should always be organized by an officer'
  1028. [Sun Aug 16 11:31:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so Jain or myself need to be made aware'
  1029. [Sun Aug 16 11:31:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If im unavailable, jain can run it'
  1030. [Sun Aug 16 11:31:11 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i would say we should hook up and be besties once a month if nothing more than just to pad eachother on the shoulders and say good job and move along'
  1031. [Sun Aug 16 11:31:34 2015] Trackanon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I like bonlgons idea'
  1032. [Sun Aug 16 11:31:40 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Agree with Bon - Why cant we just post ahead and schedule meetings'
  1033. [Sun Aug 16 11:31:50 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'dosnt ahve to be 8 hours worht of meeting everytime'
  1034. [Sun Aug 16 11:31:51 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Agree'
  1035. [Sun Aug 16 11:31:53 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why does this have to be a voted topic'
  1036. [Sun Aug 16 11:31:54 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'agree with bon'
  1037. [Sun Aug 16 11:31:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok'
  1038. [Sun Aug 16 11:31:57 2015] Trackanon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'shoulder pats feel good.'
  1039. [Sun Aug 16 11:32:10 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I motion to add an Option D: Meet the first and third sundays of each month'
  1040. [Sun Aug 16 11:32:24 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second?'
  1041. [Sun Aug 16 11:32:37 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'to foten!'
  1042. [Sun Aug 16 11:32:40 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'often to!'
  1043. [Sun Aug 16 11:34:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I really hesitate to suggest weekly meetings but if we're going to wind up "calling" then anyway I'd rather have it on my calendar'
  1044. [Sun Aug 16 11:34:14 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lets not'
  1045. [Sun Aug 16 11:34:18 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'And then change that when we realize, hey this is working, let's wait 2 weeks'
  1046. [Sun Aug 16 11:34:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd l ike to be able to have something on the calendar we can plan for. There certainly needs to be one before FFA periods end'
  1047. [Sun Aug 16 11:34:46 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I make a motion that no meeting run beyond 4 hours.. if its going to go beyond that then it gets carried over to the following meeting.'
  1048. [Sun Aug 16 11:34:48 2015] Trackanon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Every two weeks should be good'
  1049. [Sun Aug 16 11:35:15 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'we have a meeting on the 30th'
  1050. [Sun Aug 16 11:35:23 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'we dont necesaril;y have to figure this out atm'
  1051. [Sun Aug 16 11:35:28 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'like i said, first and third sundays of each month, that is more than enough time between meetings'
  1052. [Sun Aug 16 11:35:34 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what are the vote and unlock dates?'
  1053. [Sun Aug 16 11:35:41 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'at least tentative'
  1054. [Sun Aug 16 11:35:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'About that meeting... if we're going to keep that date, I will need you to hold it Jain. Sundays are not good for me'
  1055. [Sun Aug 16 11:35:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'however if something weird with the rotation happens, like we had with the cycle order, id like it if me and thal had permission to fix something minor'
  1056. [Sun Aug 16 11:35:56 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Can we push the future meetings a few hours later, 7am pst is really early.'
  1057. [Sun Aug 16 11:36:19 2015] Birkoff tells RotationCouncil:4, 'move to denmark Elend, it starts at 4pm here'
  1058. [Sun Aug 16 11:36:39 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'And 6pm is really that much worse?'
  1059. [Sun Aug 16 11:36:42 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'saturdays would actually work better for quite a few of us. i understand the earlier start times to help out rosen and darkwind...but sunday mornings suck'
  1060. [Sun Aug 16 11:37:14 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I 2nd Elend's remark.'
  1061. [Sun Aug 16 11:37:20 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i dont mind moving it but 3/4am meetings dosnt work for us either ('
  1062. [Sun Aug 16 11:37:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'do we want to move the kunark meeting to the 29th?'
  1063. [Sun Aug 16 11:37:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'to like noon est or something?'
  1064. [Sun Aug 16 11:37:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Saturday would work much better for me.'
  1065. [Sun Aug 16 11:37:47 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '2pm est works for me'
  1066. [Sun Aug 16 11:37:56 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'bon - yeah - why i was suggesting possibly late saturday morning/early afternoon to appease more folks'
  1067. [Sun Aug 16 11:37:58 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'SOme people have mentioned to me church services as a problem with sunday'
  1068. [Sun Aug 16 11:38:22 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I will gladly hold church in raidsay'
  1069. [Sun Aug 16 11:38:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree with moving kunark to 29th'
  1070. [Sun Aug 16 11:38:28 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'np'
  1071. [Sun Aug 16 11:38:30 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ofcourse you will!'
  1072. [Sun Aug 16 11:38:35 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes the church of Saytonic, how do I become a member'
  1073. [Sun Aug 16 11:38:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Saturday the 29th at 2PM EST?'
  1074. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:02 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well, first off, you have to tithe in krono'
  1075. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:08 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'ha'
  1076. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:08 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, '2pm EST time would be much better and agree with moving the Kunark meeting to the 29th '
  1077. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:20 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Do we need to vote on this or are there simply no objections to 2pm EST 8/29'
  1078. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:21 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yea he has to pay for all those boxes somehow'
  1079. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote to move the currently scheduled Kunark meeting to Saturday the 29th 2PM EST yes/no/abstain'
  1080. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vore now'
  1081. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:43 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i'll be at work at that time'
  1082. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or vote too'
  1083. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:53 2015] Eaza tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so I can't make that, but w/e'
  1084. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'any representative of your guild can come eaza'
  1085. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:57 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <FP>'
  1086. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:58 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  1087. [Sun Aug 16 11:39:59 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  1088. [Sun Aug 16 11:40:00 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1089. [Sun Aug 16 11:40:06 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes TLP'
  1090. [Sun Aug 16 11:40:11 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes caf'
  1091. [Sun Aug 16 11:40:17 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  1092. [Sun Aug 16 11:40:27 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1093. [Sun Aug 16 11:40:35 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1094. [Sun Aug 16 11:40:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '9 Yes, 3 abstain?'
  1095. [Sun Aug 16 11:41:02 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Apok>'
  1096. [Sun Aug 16 11:41:48 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10 Yes, 2 abstain then?'
  1097. [Sun Aug 16 11:42:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, vote passed. We will meet next on the 29th at 2PM EST and decide our next meeting from there'
  1098. [Sun Aug 16 11:42:16 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <TL>'
  1099. [Sun Aug 16 11:43:03 2015] Fatherdoom tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I have to leave, so Melveny will be voting in mu place for <Apok> for the remainder of the meeting.'
  1100. [Sun Aug 16 11:43:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, to clarify: ALL rules stated today will take effect after the NEXT FFA period. There are reasons why this is necessary that cannot be detailed now.'
  1101. [Sun Aug 16 11:43:34 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'So noon EST tomorrow?'
  1102. [Sun Aug 16 11:43:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, sounds good fatherdoom.'
  1103. [Sun Aug 16 11:43:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, effective tomorrow at noon all rules take place (that have been modified) and the new rotation'
  1104. [Sun Aug 16 11:43:57 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'checking to make sure our secretary can be there'
  1105. [Sun Aug 16 11:44:12 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'nm was scrolled up hah'
  1106. [Sun Aug 16 11:44:47 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'When will u post new rotation? chance to do it soon? so Eu guilds will have time to prepare if we get lucky enough to get em tomorow?'
  1107. [Sun Aug 16 11:45:12 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I will do it today yes (so within a few hours of meeting end)'
  1108. [Sun Aug 16 11:45:15 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'When I say soon I mean within the next 4-5 hours'
  1109. [Sun Aug 16 11:45:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'should be np'
  1110. [Sun Aug 16 11:45:31 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thanks'
  1111. [Sun Aug 16 11:45:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We still need to clarify a procedure for emergency meetings'
  1112. [Sun Aug 16 11:46:13 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, '48 hour notice3'
  1113. [Sun Aug 16 11:46:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This is open discussion, but... I could see it starting with messaging an officer, and posting 24 hour notice of meeting'
  1114. [Sun Aug 16 11:46:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or 48'
  1115. [Sun Aug 16 11:46:47 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'who would be responsible for messaging officers in that instance?'
  1116. [Sun Aug 16 11:47:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'keep in mind an emergency meeting will likely be time sensitive (a violation with DBG involvement)'
  1117. [Sun Aug 16 11:47:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ryan, to organize, and consistency. We maintain the spreadsheets and the rules, it only makes sense to have us included in emergency meetings'
  1118. [Sun Aug 16 11:48:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'And if it involves a dbg violation, they are going to be contact me anyway'
  1119. [Sun Aug 16 11:48:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'err punishment'
  1120. [Sun Aug 16 11:48:46 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry, didn't mean to seem liek I was excluding you. I am simply asking if we go by contacting officers of each guild and giving notice, who's actually responsible for that?'
  1121. [Sun Aug 16 11:48:48 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If there is a real emergency either guild leaders or their Sr officers can send a message and ask for an emergency meeting.. this power should not be used for bullshit.. just use common sense. Say DBG makes a big rule change or a server merger etc.'
  1122. [Sun Aug 16 11:49:18 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'would change in mob rotation times classify?'
  1123. [Sun Aug 16 11:49:24 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'mob spawn times even'
  1124. [Sun Aug 16 11:49:44 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'doubtful because it'd be covered by the slots i'd reckon'
  1125. [Sun Aug 16 11:49:55 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not if there is no variance'
  1126. [Sun Aug 16 11:50:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Maybe we don't even meet, maybe it's a matter of posting on the forums the situation and carrying out the vote that way. It's all up in the air for discussion'
  1127. [Sun Aug 16 11:50:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Do you know something we dont know tarri ? :D'
  1128. [Sun Aug 16 11:50:57 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I like the boards idea. With multiple officers from each guild checking, everyone shoudl be read in on an issue in time to make a decision/have a discussion'
  1129. [Sun Aug 16 11:51:06 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hah no'
  1130. [Sun Aug 16 11:51:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, is anyone opposed to using the forums as a means of emergency correspondence between regularly scheduled meetings?'
  1131. [Sun Aug 16 11:51:58 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'fine with me'
  1132. [Sun Aug 16 11:52:07 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Works for me''
  1133. [Sun Aug 16 11:52:08 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we sticky it while it's happening Jain?'
  1134. [Sun Aug 16 11:52:20 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'then we can remove sticky after situation is handled'
  1135. [Sun Aug 16 11:52:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Simply post a topic with the subject Emergency Agenda Item: and all guilds have 24 or 48? hours to respond. '
  1136. [Sun Aug 16 11:52:38 2015] Trackanon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes'
  1137. [Sun Aug 16 11:52:45 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'That's fine'
  1138. [Sun Aug 16 11:52:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok, so 24 or 48 hours?'
  1139. [Sun Aug 16 11:52:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'There are also multiple mods who can sticky if I'm not around for some strange strange reason'
  1140. [Sun Aug 16 11:53:14 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, '48hours'
  1141. [Sun Aug 16 11:53:18 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'If I havent already I can also turn on polls'
  1142. [Sun Aug 16 11:53:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its important to specify time because it will be 2/3rds m ajority vote of who voted at end of time period, not of all 12 guilds'
  1143. [Sun Aug 16 11:53:39 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'in case some guilds aren't keeping up with it'
  1144. [Sun Aug 16 11:53:43 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, '48 hours to come with input and toss ina vote... guys.. remind eachother theres a vote'
  1145. [Sun Aug 16 11:53:47 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, '24 hours I"d say, since things can come up where Roshen needs feedback or something in a shorter time frame'
  1146. [Sun Aug 16 11:53:56 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'As a sort of related/side note to this though some of you would really help people out if you'd put your guild name in your signature there'
  1147. [Sun Aug 16 11:53:56 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'im sure we all can remember who needs to be notified so just send out a reminder when you talk to people anyway'
  1148. [Sun Aug 16 11:53:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'True Ryan'
  1149. [Sun Aug 16 11:54:05 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'should it be locked into a forum only postable by the council so we dont get randos voting?'
  1150. [Sun Aug 16 11:54:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, in the private locked forum for sure'
  1151. [Sun Aug 16 11:54:15 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if roshen dosnt react before his spoken wtih us he can wait 48 hours'
  1152. [Sun Aug 16 11:54:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'As a general rule of thumb, all public things (agendas, minutes, logs) go in the public forums, but everything else i have been putting in private'
  1153. [Sun Aug 16 11:55:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok so'
  1154. [Sun Aug 16 11:56:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '24 hours from time of post. We can also help the other guilds by directing them to post'
  1155. [Sun Aug 16 11:56:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'is this Ok with everyone?'
  1156. [Sun Aug 16 11:56:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I will toss some links in the reference tab on the spreadsheet too'
  1157. [Sun Aug 16 11:56:35 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'fine with me bro.'
  1158. [Sun Aug 16 11:56:48 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, '48 would still be better but if u think 24hours is the best then let's go for it.'
  1159. [Sun Aug 16 11:57:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Emergency voting will be done via the forums. The guild bringing up the issue will post it in the private leadership forums with the subject Emergency Agenda Item. All guilds will have 24 hours to vote from time of post. yes/no/abstain'
  1160. [Sun Aug 16 11:57:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  1161. [Sun Aug 16 11:57:50 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Tempus>'
  1162. [Sun Aug 16 11:57:52 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1163. [Sun Aug 16 11:57:57 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1164. [Sun Aug 16 11:57:59 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <False Prophecy>'
  1165. [Sun Aug 16 11:58:03 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1166. [Sun Aug 16 11:58:20 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <rosengard>'
  1167. [Sun Aug 16 11:58:20 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <False Prophecy>'
  1168. [Sun Aug 16 11:58:33 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  1169. [Sun Aug 16 11:58:40 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <TL>'
  1170. [Sun Aug 16 11:59:08 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry matthias.. thought you were afk..'
  1171. [Sun Aug 16 11:59:19 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its fine =D'
  1172. [Sun Aug 16 11:59:31 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes tlg'
  1173. [Sun Aug 16 11:59:53 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '9 for, 3 abstain?'
  1174. [Sun Aug 16 12:00:15 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes caf'
  1175. [Sun Aug 16 12:01:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10 for, 2 abstain, passes'
  1176. [Sun Aug 16 12:01:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, vote passed. We now have a process in place for emergency voting.'
  1177. [Sun Aug 16 12:01:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Next up:'
  1178. [Sun Aug 16 12:01:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Violations and Punishments'
  1179. [Sun Aug 16 12:01:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'These are the last items on the agenda, and they are completely open to discussion.'
  1180. [Sun Aug 16 12:01:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'First up:'
  1181. [Sun Aug 16 12:02:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'How should rule violations be handled?'
  1182. [Sun Aug 16 12:02:44 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '1. Immediate dismill from the rotation OR DBG inforcement'
  1183. [Sun Aug 16 12:02:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I came up with a basic idea that lesser infractions would be reported to an officer and brought up at next meeting'
  1184. [Sun Aug 16 12:03:16 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and emergency infractions would be recorded by an occier and emergency meeting or vote called'
  1185. [Sun Aug 16 12:03:32 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, '< Afk for a bit'
  1186. [Sun Aug 16 12:03:54 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Do people want to go forward with the guild wide suspension if the rotation agremeents are broken ?'
  1187. [Sun Aug 16 12:03:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'A lesser infraction being failure to update spreadsheet with k ill times, misrepresentation of d ata, or failure to respect another guilds gatekeeper attempt'
  1188. [Sun Aug 16 12:04:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that's listed under punishments'
  1189. [Sun Aug 16 12:04:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right now we're trying to identify how violations are handled'
  1190. [Sun Aug 16 12:04:22 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sr..'
  1191. [Sun Aug 16 12:04:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the process of it'
  1192. [Sun Aug 16 12:04:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Somebody has to know if guild x isn't updating the kill spreadsheet at all'
  1193. [Sun Aug 16 12:04:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'because it's a rule that they are responsible for it'
  1194. [Sun Aug 16 12:05:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Anybody have a better method or any ideas for reporting violations internally?'
  1195. [Sun Aug 16 12:05:38 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree. I shouldnt have to check 18 characters log to find out who killed something'
  1196. [Sun Aug 16 12:07:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If a guild fails to update or misrepresents data on the spreadsheet, or hinders another guild's gatekeeper attempt, this is considered a lesser infraction and should be reported to an officer and brought up at the next regularly scheduled council meeting. Yes/no/abstain'
  1197. [Sun Aug 16 12:07:26 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  1198. [Sun Aug 16 12:07:44 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  1199. [Sun Aug 16 12:07:47 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1200. [Sun Aug 16 12:07:49 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <FP>'
  1201. [Sun Aug 16 12:07:56 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1202. [Sun Aug 16 12:08:04 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1203. [Sun Aug 16 12:08:14 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Twisted Legacy>'
  1204. [Sun Aug 16 12:08:14 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes caf'
  1205. [Sun Aug 16 12:08:21 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes tlg'
  1206. [Sun Aug 16 12:08:23 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  1207. [Sun Aug 16 12:09:00 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '9 for, 3 abstain ?'
  1208. [Sun Aug 16 12:09:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Some of these are very simple votes, I'm probably going to start calling them as soon as we have majority favor'
  1209. [Sun Aug 16 12:09:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Nod'
  1210. [Sun Aug 16 12:10:11 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'anything to make it go faster!'
  1211. [Sun Aug 16 12:10:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We're getting closer'
  1212. [Sun Aug 16 12:10:24 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds good Jain'
  1213. [Sun Aug 16 12:10:34 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'democracy takes time :?'
  1214. [Sun Aug 16 12:10:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The second part: Emergency Infractions.... this kind goes along with the Emergency agenda item'
  1215. [Sun Aug 16 12:11:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'how do we feel about anything that constitutes as an emergency infraction uses the same procedure we outlined for agenda items (most likely they will be one and the same)'
  1216. [Sun Aug 16 12:11:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Meaning, the forums '
  1217. [Sun Aug 16 12:11:33 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sounds good'
  1218. [Sun Aug 16 12:12:11 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'surew'
  1219. [Sun Aug 16 12:13:03 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'WTB Fraps '
  1220. [Sun Aug 16 12:13:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Emergency Infractions will be posted on the forums with the title Emergency Infraction, allowing 24 hours for all guilds to view and update with relevant information. An emergency infraction is defined as any direct violation of rotation rules, or an attempt ot deface the rotation spreadsheet. Yes/no/abstain'
  1221. [Sun Aug 16 12:13:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  1222. [Sun Aug 16 12:13:49 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes caf'
  1223. [Sun Aug 16 12:13:54 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes lfg'
  1224. [Sun Aug 16 12:13:55 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1225. [Sun Aug 16 12:13:56 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  1226. [Sun Aug 16 12:14:13 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1227. [Sun Aug 16 12:14:19 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1228. [Sun Aug 16 12:14:24 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes FP'
  1229. [Sun Aug 16 12:14:36 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we agree to post it on the leadership forum to avoid witch hunts and being condemmed by the public?'
  1230. [Sun Aug 16 12:14:46 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second that idea'
  1231. [Sun Aug 16 12:14:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, everything should be only in the private leadership platform'
  1232. [Sun Aug 16 12:15:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'please dont run things to the forum'
  1233. [Sun Aug 16 12:15:19 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  1234. [Sun Aug 16 12:15:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'do your typical guidehelp with relevant information then post on private forums'
  1235. [Sun Aug 16 12:15:26 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <rosengard>'
  1236. [Sun Aug 16 12:15:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10 for, 2 abstain?'
  1237. [Sun Aug 16 12:15:58 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10 for, 2 abstain, vote passes'
  1238. [Sun Aug 16 12:16:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok great, we have a procedure for emergency infractions. next up is punishments'
  1239. [Sun Aug 16 12:16:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The general thought was that if they are lesser infractions, we will introduce them during the next regularly scheduled meeting, and open it up for a vote'
  1240. [Sun Aug 16 12:17:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'on wehtehr or not we should administer punishment (aka guilty)'
  1241. [Sun Aug 16 12:17:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'with the clause the affected party obviously is excluded a vote'
  1242. [Sun Aug 16 12:17:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I also added the clause for 51&PCT; majority vote vs a 2/3rds because a definitive yes or no is needed'
  1243. [Sun Aug 16 12:18:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anyboyd have any input or change of process for this'
  1244. [Sun Aug 16 12:19:00 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I disagree strongly that we woudl reduce the amount of votes needed to instill a punishment. This could lead to "ganging up" a lot easier. Other than that, i'm good with it.'
  1245. [Sun Aug 16 12:19:23 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Seconded ^^^'
  1246. [Sun Aug 16 12:19:35 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it can work in the reverse to w here a few ally guilds can strongarm as to not punish said guild though'
  1247. [Sun Aug 16 12:19:48 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'which is a bigger issue, since all it takes is 3 votes to stop a 2/3'
  1248. [Sun Aug 16 12:20:01 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'takes 4'
  1249. [Sun Aug 16 12:20:05 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'atm'
  1250. [Sun Aug 16 12:20:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if all in attendance, true'
  1251. [Sun Aug 16 12:20:11 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not if guild in question isn't voting'
  1252. [Sun Aug 16 12:20:21 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and that'
  1253. [Sun Aug 16 12:20:27 2015] First tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no thats including that, its 5 for a failure with 12, 4 with 11'
  1254. [Sun Aug 16 12:20:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It feels disproportionate to me that we require 2/3 to make changed but only need 51&PCT; to hang somoene'
  1255. [Sun Aug 16 12:20:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok fair'
  1256. [Sun Aug 16 12:20:59 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry my typing just becomes atrocious halfway through meetings this long'
  1257. [Sun Aug 16 12:21:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Will leave at 2/3rds'
  1258. [Sun Aug 16 12:21:18 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Unless anybody has any input on majority in these situations?'
  1259. [Sun Aug 16 12:23:06 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Hang them all!'
  1260. [Sun Aug 16 12:23:24 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'imo we should hang saytonic'
  1261. [Sun Aug 16 12:23:42 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We can build some gallows in Sky that drop all the way to FP?'
  1262. [Sun Aug 16 12:23:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'A guilty/not guilty vote will take place after a lesser infraction has been brought up at a meeting. If a majority vote finds a party guilty, the council will discuss an vote on an appropriate punishment. yes/no/vote'
  1263. [Sun Aug 16 12:23:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote Now'
  1264. [Sun Aug 16 12:24:11 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <rosengard>'
  1265. [Sun Aug 16 12:24:13 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  1266. [Sun Aug 16 12:24:19 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <CaF>'
  1267. [Sun Aug 16 12:24:28 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <FP>'
  1268. [Sun Aug 16 12:24:28 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1269. [Sun Aug 16 12:24:30 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes tlg'
  1270. [Sun Aug 16 12:24:31 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  1271. [Sun Aug 16 12:24:47 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1272. [Sun Aug 16 12:24:56 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yea <remnants of prexus>'
  1273. [Sun Aug 16 12:25:27 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '9 for, 3 abstain?'
  1274. [Sun Aug 16 12:25:43 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes (apok)'
  1275. [Sun Aug 16 12:25:50 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1276. [Sun Aug 16 12:26:13 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '11-0-1 passes'
  1277. [Sun Aug 16 12:27:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'A guilty/not guilty vote will take place on the forums after an Emergency Infraction discussion has concluded. After 24 hours, a poll will be taken. If a majority vote finds the offending party guilty, the council will discuss and vote on an appropriate punishment. yes/no/abstain'
  1278. [Sun Aug 16 12:27:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hold sorry'
  1279. [Sun Aug 16 12:27:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'do we want the poll to be included in the 24 hours, or should it take place after 24 hours of discussion?'
  1280. [Sun Aug 16 12:27:57 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'After'
  1281. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:05 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'After'
  1282. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:10 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So arguments can be taken into consideration'
  1283. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:17 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'after'
  1284. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok that was my thought, but wanted to be sure'
  1285. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:19 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'after '
  1286. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:23 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'think after as well'
  1287. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'proceed with vote then'
  1288. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:32 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1289. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'A guilty/not guilty vote will take place on the forums after an Emergency Infraction discussion has concluded. After 24 hours, a poll will be taken. If a majority vote finds the offending party guilty, the council will discuss and vote on an appropriate punishment. yes/no/abstain'
  1290. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:34 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  1291. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:37 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1292. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:40 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes tlg'
  1293. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:44 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <FP>'
  1294. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:48 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1295. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:49 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <remnants of prexus>'
  1296. [Sun Aug 16 12:28:52 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Tempus>'
  1297. [Sun Aug 16 12:29:12 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes caf'
  1298. [Sun Aug 16 12:29:15 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1299. [Sun Aug 16 12:29:55 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  1300. [Sun Aug 16 12:30:02 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  1301. [Sun Aug 16 12:30:09 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10-0-2?'
  1302. [Sun Aug 16 12:30:45 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10-0-2, vote passes'
  1303. [Sun Aug 16 12:31:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, now for Punishments themselves. My ideas were that if a party is voted as guilty, we could administer punishments as follows:'
  1304. [Sun Aug 16 12:31:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '1) mob rotation ban'
  1305. [Sun Aug 16 12:31:30 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '2) entire cycle ban'
  1306. [Sun Aug 16 12:31:35 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '3) 3 cycle rotation ban'
  1307. [Sun Aug 16 12:31:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '4) 7 day suspension'
  1308. [Sun Aug 16 12:32:19 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'remove #3 - if they willingly do stuff, no sense suspending them for 3 cycles.'
  1309. [Sun Aug 16 12:32:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'for offending raid (pending if DBG is actually able to do raid only)'
  1310. [Sun Aug 16 12:32:38 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Can we just vote that these are suggested punishment options?'
  1311. [Sun Aug 16 12:32:47 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'will it be guild wide in the event they aren't Thal?'
  1312. [Sun Aug 16 12:32:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok. Yes these are suggested, everything is discussion at this point'
  1313. [Sun Aug 16 12:33:04 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'could we please please move away from guildwide suspensions.. '
  1314. [Sun Aug 16 12:33:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that was an option we had but almost everyone said that option was bad'
  1315. [Sun Aug 16 12:33:12 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and not even consider this part of it'
  1316. [Sun Aug 16 12:33:13 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'in the discussion with DBG '
  1317. [Sun Aug 16 12:33:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We could just say that we will administer whatever punishment the council feels'
  1318. [Sun Aug 16 12:34:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but i felt it was good that offenders knew what they are getting themselves into'
  1319. [Sun Aug 16 12:34:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'IE if they screw up, there is a 7 day ban coming'
  1320. [Sun Aug 16 12:34:36 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes'
  1321. [Sun Aug 16 12:34:47 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I want it to be different choices depending on what a guild has done'
  1322. [Sun Aug 16 12:34:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Obviously we are working in tandem with DBG on these, and they will be interested to know what we select as our options'
  1323. [Sun Aug 16 12:34:58 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we should ammend to the 7 day suggestion their position wont move either'
  1324. [Sun Aug 16 12:35:32 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why not tier it for people that continue to break the rules?'
  1325. [Sun Aug 16 12:35:38 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd rather get clarification before we vote on whether or not a "raid" ban is possible. I don't feel like a guild ban is appropriate at any point'
  1326. [Sun Aug 16 12:35:41 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, '3 strikes your out'
  1327. [Sun Aug 16 12:36:06 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Because then guilds can willingly break the rules 2 times'
  1328. [Sun Aug 16 12:36:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'with no consequence'
  1329. [Sun Aug 16 12:36:20 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'start with losing mob as punishmne, if they do again they lose entire rotation, third time guild suspension'
  1330. [Sun Aug 16 12:36:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'There needs to be penalty with every infraction, if found guilty'
  1331. [Sun Aug 16 12:36:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ah i see'
  1332. [Sun Aug 16 12:36:29 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree with Melveny'
  1333. [Sun Aug 16 12:36:47 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Entire cycle rotation ban seems like a decent one. Then again there are varying levels of infractions. '
  1334. [Sun Aug 16 12:36:59 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yeha, I like that idea. Escalating punishment, with the caveat that if something is bad enough, steps can be skipped if council determines they shoudl be'
  1335. [Sun Aug 16 12:37:25 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I second Melveny'
  1336. [Sun Aug 16 12:37:32 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree with Ryanilin '
  1337. [Sun Aug 16 12:37:34 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'how about'
  1338. [Sun Aug 16 12:37:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think the punishment suggested shuld be different for type of infraction'
  1339. [Sun Aug 16 12:37:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lets start by defining punishment steps for lesser infractions'
  1340. [Sun Aug 16 12:38:02 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'go wtih what thalanos said.. First offens is option 1'
  1341. [Sun Aug 16 12:38:07 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if it goes to a tier level for punishment how does one get a check off their guild?'
  1342. [Sun Aug 16 12:38:13 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second time.. is second option.. 3rd etc etc'
  1343. [Sun Aug 16 12:38:19 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm like doctor Evil '
  1344. [Sun Aug 16 12:38:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If a guild commits is found guilty of a lesser infraction (IE - Fails to update the spreadsheet, or tampers with gatekeeper spawn) what should punishment steps be:'
  1345. [Sun Aug 16 12:38:41 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I mean God forbid someone just gets off a raid and has a heart attack and is in the hospital and cant update .. cant really punish someone for that. But if it is something deliberate then punishment is deserved.'
  1346. [Sun Aug 16 12:39:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I feel like Thal has presented us with 4 levels of punishment, and I feel like if a guild is caught doing something, the council can reasonably be expected to pick the appropriate one when it comes up'
  1347. [Sun Aug 16 12:39:08 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'avatarr true, but anyone in their guild can send a tell to any of the rest and let them know easily'
  1348. [Sun Aug 16 12:39:13 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'How about for lesser infractions: 1st time is a warning, 2nd time is a mob ban, 3rd time is an entire cycle ban?'
  1349. [Sun Aug 16 12:39:38 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree with that Thalanos'
  1350. [Sun Aug 16 12:39:41 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm not really sure that I can to have this set in stone'
  1351. [Sun Aug 16 12:39:49 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that would work thalanos'
  1352. [Sun Aug 16 12:39:52 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'There might be some mobs worth eating a warning for, for example'
  1353. [Sun Aug 16 12:40:00 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '(in the eyes of some)'
  1354. [Sun Aug 16 12:40:03 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this is onyl minor infractions though'
  1355. [Sun Aug 16 12:40:08 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but how long do these infractions against a guild last? this is an endless game'
  1356. [Sun Aug 16 12:40:08 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vulak here I come'
  1357. [Sun Aug 16 12:40:12 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'major would have a different set of rules'
  1358. [Sun Aug 16 12:40:13 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'OK gotcha'
  1359. [Sun Aug 16 12:40:14 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, '1st time = mob ban, 2nd time = cycle ban seems good.'
  1360. [Sun Aug 16 12:40:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This is just for lesser infractions. It's highly unlikely you would intentionally fail to update a spreadsheet for that'
  1361. [Sun Aug 16 12:40:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Melv also brings up another good point, more upkeep/maintenance/admin'
  1362. [Sun Aug 16 12:41:09 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lets say a guild is dumb enough to break the rules to get guild suspended, from there on out they are always suspended? How does one earn a notch off their belt'
  1363. [Sun Aug 16 12:41:13 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I mean if all this is spelled out right now, and we etch it in stone, that is no problem'
  1364. [Sun Aug 16 12:41:24 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We are just kind of tying our hands down the road, may not be wise'
  1365. [Sun Aug 16 12:41:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Although we do have a clearly outlined process for it, it is worth noting that it will be administrative upkeep, yes'
  1366. [Sun Aug 16 12:41:27 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'should be Expansion based or a time fram'
  1367. [Sun Aug 16 12:42:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we can always modify when its relevant'
  1368. [Sun Aug 16 12:42:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'expansion relevant ^'
  1369. [Sun Aug 16 12:42:24 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Especially in an area where justice will be dispensed, I feel like I prefer discretion is available in the moment?'
  1370. [Sun Aug 16 12:42:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I feel those options are very discretionate, don't you?'
  1371. [Sun Aug 16 12:43:10 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, we are saying those are the options, not a specific order we're tied to then?'
  1372. [Sun Aug 16 12:43:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well it was written as an order. '
  1373. [Sun Aug 16 12:43:49 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would also like to add, that if you get to the highest level of punishment, you shoudl lose your vote on the council. '
  1374. [Sun Aug 16 12:43:50 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'This may be moot. I'll hop off the floor.'
  1375. [Sun Aug 16 12:44:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ah yes. We did not yet discuss how you can be removed from the council. That would be a good reason.'
  1376. [Sun Aug 16 12:44:43 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Jain, I'm interested to hear why you think a tiered punishment system is not best for this'
  1377. [Sun Aug 16 12:45:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think when an infraction occurs the council should hear what the involved parties have to say, what the rest of the council has to say, and then select an appropriate penalty from the options you listed, taking into account factors such as intent, history, etc.'
  1378. [Sun Aug 16 12:45:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I can see when we are dealing with Emergency infractions, that if the initial punishment is too low, guilds could just willingly eat it'
  1379. [Sun Aug 16 12:45:53 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'And this is speaking of infractions of all levels'
  1380. [Sun Aug 16 12:46:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes, these punishments are only after all those things are discussed. That's what the 24 hour forum convos are for'
  1381. [Sun Aug 16 12:46:26 2015] Garolann tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Mylene's computer just restarted'
  1382. [Sun Aug 16 12:46:35 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'OK thank you Gar'
  1383. [Sun Aug 16 12:46:43 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if i'm understanding jain, he's saying there should be some options listed, and that the discussion and vote at the time can choose from whatever punishment seems to fit the crime....instead of having <if you do this, then this is the punishment, if you do that, then that is the punishment>'
  1384. [Sun Aug 16 12:46:57 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Correct Marth'
  1385. [Sun Aug 16 12:47:13 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok'
  1386. [Sun Aug 16 12:47:13 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that way, we have options there, and don't need a new frickin rule for some new twist on an infraction'
  1387. [Sun Aug 16 12:47:17 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree wholeheartedly Jain'
  1388. [Sun Aug 16 12:47:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think that is very reasonable'
  1389. [Sun Aug 16 12:47:20 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'But if we want to say that everyone who gets accused of being a witch always gets burned at the stake, we can do that'
  1390. [Sun Aug 16 12:47:42 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'a witch! a wicth! burn her!'
  1391. [Sun Aug 16 12:48:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I like your logic. Is everyone in agreement that we will select from a pre-determined list of options to be administered appropriately to the infraction?'
  1392. [Sun Aug 16 12:48:46 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so i think the 4 items that thal posted, along with the option to give a warning, should be examples'
  1393. [Sun Aug 16 12:48:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It's possible I've gotten lost in the agenda and am talking out my ass'
  1394. [Sun Aug 16 12:49:05 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes Thalanos'
  1395. [Sun Aug 16 12:49:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok then, one moment...'
  1396. [Sun Aug 16 12:49:33 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so it would be a guilty/nonguilty vote, then a sentencing phase which would basically be choosing from a menu?'
  1397. [Sun Aug 16 12:49:51 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'How about we have 5 different options.. whenever a guild breaks the rotatoin we agree on one of the 5 depending on how harsh we think the punishment should be'
  1398. [Sun Aug 16 12:50:02 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that going from a week suspension to a slap on the wrist'
  1399. [Sun Aug 16 12:50:47 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i agree with Bonlgon'
  1400. [Sun Aug 16 12:50:58 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Should we really waste our time if something deserves a slap on the wrist'
  1401. [Sun Aug 16 12:51:15 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Once a party has been found guilty of a lesser infraction, the council will vote to administer one of the following punishments: 1) A written warning 2) A one mob rotation ban (Decided by council) 3) An entire cycle rotation ban. If infractions are severe enough, or frequent enough, the council may vote to remove the Member completely.'
  1402. [Sun Aug 16 12:51:25 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Depends on how many times your wrist has to get slapped? ;-)'
  1403. [Sun Aug 16 12:51:46 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I like slapping, Thalanos that looks good imo'
  1404. [Sun Aug 16 12:52:11 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'looks fine with me thalanos'
  1405. [Sun Aug 16 12:52:12 2015] Garolann tells RotationCouncil:4, 'a slap provides precedent and a history of prior infractions for future incidents'
  1406. [Sun Aug 16 12:52:16 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'remove from rotation, council or both Thal?'
  1407. [Sun Aug 16 12:52:24 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'both'
  1408. [Sun Aug 16 12:52:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Once a guild has been found guilty of a lesser infraction, the council will vote to administer one of the following punishments: 1) A written warning 2) A one mob rotation ban (Decided by council) 3) An entire cycle rotation ban. If infractions are severe enough, or frequent enough, the council may vote to remove the Member completely. Yes/No/Abstain'
  1409. [Sun Aug 16 12:52:37 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or one or theo ther'
  1410. [Sun Aug 16 12:52:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The way its worded, its just stated that we open the door to boot the guild out'
  1411. [Sun Aug 16 12:52:54 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its not part of the list of options'
  1412. [Sun Aug 16 12:53:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'maybe it deserves its own rule'
  1413. [Sun Aug 16 12:53:19 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'final thoughts before vote?'
  1414. [Sun Aug 16 12:53:22 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right, but there's a much higher bar to rejoining council than there is for rotation'
  1415. [Sun Aug 16 12:53:37 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so dont fuck up'
  1416. [Sun Aug 16 12:53:38 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You don't rejoin if u get booted'
  1417. [Sun Aug 16 12:53:39 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that's the onyl reason I was trying to clarify'
  1418. [Sun Aug 16 12:54:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'd like to keep the vote to boot separate from punishment administered, because we can keep collective logs of how often a guild commits infraction'
  1419. [Sun Aug 16 12:54:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so i just left the door open for that with the wording'
  1420. [Sun Aug 16 12:54:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but I could also see it being a co mpletely new rule'
  1421. [Sun Aug 16 12:54:37 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Look specifics can always be written in the judgement should some guild get into so much trouble. Right now its just about clarifying and making sure we have some options and rules.'
  1422. [Sun Aug 16 12:54:47 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'add a page to the rotation document that specifies an infraction history'
  1423. [Sun Aug 16 12:54:53 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'fyi - login server having issues - don't log out ;)'
  1424. [Sun Aug 16 12:54:54 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but if someone is ever excluded then the council can no longer punish them. How would that keep that guild from assuming evrything is FFA to them ?'
  1425. [Sun Aug 16 12:55:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Because I have a direct line to Roshen :P'
  1426. [Sun Aug 16 12:55:16 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'they would get helpo from DBG in making that determination I'm guessing'
  1427. [Sun Aug 16 12:55:21 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thenthe whole rotation petitions DB and DB bans the guild'
  1428. [Sun Aug 16 12:55:22 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '/4 No i think punishment should be assesed per infraction and if prior history proves they require harsh penaltys then so be it'
  1429. [Sun Aug 16 12:55:45 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'RoshenOfTears'
  1430. [Sun Aug 16 12:56:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Leche, DBG is working with us on these'
  1431. [Sun Aug 16 12:56:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If we decide as a group that somebody had committed an infraction, they will assist us with enforcement'
  1432. [Sun Aug 16 12:56:57 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yeah I mean if a guild doesn't prefer whatever the council decides'
  1433. [Sun Aug 16 12:57:07 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Then presumeably they can just take DB's 7 day suspension'
  1434. [Sun Aug 16 12:57:14 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and thats confirmed ?'
  1435. [Sun Aug 16 12:57:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Mm yeah, that's pretty much confirmed'
  1436. [Sun Aug 16 12:57:35 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok'
  1437. [Sun Aug 16 12:57:39 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that DBG will ban? yes'
  1438. [Sun Aug 16 12:58:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm not sure who the forum handle demarc is... but you may want to have a chat with him'
  1439. [Sun Aug 16 12:58:17 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I don't want to jump ahead here, but with the Vox thing, DB was ready to issue the suspension and many of the council guilds said whoa whoa hold on, let's see what we can work out amonst ourselves first'
  1440. [Sun Aug 16 12:58:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'He was in a discussion with DBG and guild leaders'
  1441. [Sun Aug 16 12:59:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes. DBG CS said suspend. The guild leaders said let's start internally.'
  1442. [Sun Aug 16 12:59:16 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ive already read the private conversation thats why im asking seemed alot of "misjudgements" were made based on no facts and people unwillnig to disclose the truth'
  1443. [Sun Aug 16 12:59:18 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Roshen agreed.'
  1444. [Sun Aug 16 12:59:34 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No offence, but can we get back to agenda here'
  1445. [Sun Aug 16 12:59:38 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm getting tired'
  1446. [Sun Aug 16 12:59:42 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes but there were also some important Screenshots/fraps videos that were not shown there as well, Leche'
  1447. [Sun Aug 16 12:59:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Concur'
  1448. [Sun Aug 16 12:59:52 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'very true'
  1449. [Sun Aug 16 12:59:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, so...'
  1450. [Sun Aug 16 13:00:16 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Once a guild has been found guilty of a lesser infraction, the council will vote to administer one of the following punishments: 1) A written warning 2) A one mob rotation ban (Decided by council) 3) An entire cycle rotation ban. If infractions are severe enough, or frequent enough, the council may vote to remove the Member completely. Yes/No/Abstain'
  1451. [Sun Aug 16 13:00:20 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'doubtful but elts continue'
  1452. [Sun Aug 16 13:00:26 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote Now'
  1453. [Sun Aug 16 13:00:38 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1454. [Sun Aug 16 13:00:48 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Fp>'
  1455. [Sun Aug 16 13:00:50 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  1456. [Sun Aug 16 13:00:51 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Twisted Legacy>'
  1457. [Sun Aug 16 13:00:51 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  1458. [Sun Aug 16 13:00:58 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes <CAF>'
  1459. [Sun Aug 16 13:01:09 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1460. [Sun Aug 16 13:01:11 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1461. [Sun Aug 16 13:01:14 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes tlg'
  1462. [Sun Aug 16 13:01:14 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Rosengard>'
  1463. [Sun Aug 16 13:01:51 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10-0-2?'
  1464. [Sun Aug 16 13:02:09 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '10-0-2, passes'
  1465. [Sun Aug 16 13:02:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote passes. We've defined punishments for lesser infractions... moving onto Emergency infractions'
  1466. [Sun Aug 16 13:02:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What would we l ike the punishments to look like for direct rotation violations, or intentional spreadsheet defacement'
  1467. [Sun Aug 16 13:03:16 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Use the same tbh'
  1468. [Sun Aug 16 13:03:19 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Same'
  1469. [Sun Aug 16 13:03:20 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'same thing with the removal of a warning as an option'
  1470. [Sun Aug 16 13:03:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I disagree'
  1471. [Sun Aug 16 13:03:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we need to add suspensions in there. '
  1472. [Sun Aug 16 13:03:46 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'OK that's fiar'
  1473. [Sun Aug 16 13:03:48 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'fair*'
  1474. [Sun Aug 16 13:03:51 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'add it att he end'
  1475. [Sun Aug 16 13:03:54 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Add Suspensions then'
  1476. [Sun Aug 16 13:04:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, same list, with 7 day suspension?'
  1477. [Sun Aug 16 13:04:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if we call for a suspension, will it always be 7 day? or 3 day?'
  1478. [Sun Aug 16 13:04:26 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree'
  1479. [Sun Aug 16 13:04:29 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  1480. [Sun Aug 16 13:04:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The council removal stuff, as least as I had set up that outline, is just something we need to chat about at some point, it's not extremely urgent imo, but rotation violations could be *a* part of it'
  1481. [Sun Aug 16 13:04:42 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Devs can decide suspension length'
  1482. [Sun Aug 16 13:04:49 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we dotn do that'
  1483. [Sun Aug 16 13:05:00 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We can ask for either 3 or 4, officers or guild wide'
  1484. [Sun Aug 16 13:05:16 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We're here to make decisions, they are there to enforce'
  1485. [Sun Aug 16 13:05:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Well we kindof do, they asked us in the PM '
  1486. [Sun Aug 16 13:05:27 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'for major infractions, I don't think a warning shoudl be an option.'
  1487. [Sun Aug 16 13:05:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'also agree'
  1488. [Sun Aug 16 13:05:40 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yeah fair'
  1489. [Sun Aug 16 13:05:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This is a proven infraction that the guild has voted on and found the guild guilty'
  1490. [Sun Aug 16 13:05:52 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'right'
  1491. [Sun Aug 16 13:06:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So, Mob Ban, Cycle Ban, 3 Day suspension, 7 Day suspension as options?'
  1492. [Sun Aug 16 13:06:44 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yep fine'
  1493. [Sun Aug 16 13:06:44 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i dont think players should have the power to suspend if the case is sever maybe we should gather the info and escalate it up to DBG '
  1494. [Sun Aug 16 13:06:46 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes'
  1495. [Sun Aug 16 13:06:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Assuming DBG allows us to specify time. I will certainly clarify that with Roshen'
  1496. [Sun Aug 16 13:06:59 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'again the suspension should include that their position in the order wont move'
  1497. [Sun Aug 16 13:07:01 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but DBG will ultimately decide between 3 and 4 with our input right?'
  1498. [Sun Aug 16 13:07:11 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'gotcha, sorry Thal'
  1499. [Sun Aug 16 13:07:17 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if they aer next up, they stay that way even if 3 mobs get killed'
  1500. [Sun Aug 16 13:07:29 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Thal I believe those options are solid and if DB has issues with any of them we can remove them'
  1501. [Sun Aug 16 13:07:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'CS will need to find the aprty guilty as well as us. So still do /guidehelps. They need the evidence of wrongdoings too'
  1502. [Sun Aug 16 13:07:54 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why wouldn't it count as a fail to kill and move them to the back Tarri?'
  1503. [Sun Aug 16 13:08:13 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok so...'
  1504. [Sun Aug 16 13:08:58 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Once a guild has been found guilty of an emergency infraction, the council will vote to administer one of the following punishments (as allowed by DBG): 1) One mob ban 2) Full cycle ban 3) 3 day suspension 4) 7 day suspension'
  1505. [Sun Aug 16 13:09:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Once a guild has been found guilty of an emergency infraction, the council will vote to administer one of the following punishments (as allowed by DBG): 1) One mob ban 2) Full cycle ban 3) 3 day suspension 4) 7 day suspension yes/no/abstain'
  1506. [Sun Aug 16 13:09:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  1507. [Sun Aug 16 13:09:31 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Twisted Legacy <Yes>'
  1508. [Sun Aug 16 13:09:33 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Tempus>'
  1509. [Sun Aug 16 13:09:36 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes < Evening Reign >'
  1510. [Sun Aug 16 13:09:39 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1511. [Sun Aug 16 13:09:44 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Remnants of Prexus>'
  1512. [Sun Aug 16 13:09:46 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Ceaseless>'
  1513. [Sun Aug 16 13:10:10 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes tlg'
  1514. [Sun Aug 16 13:10:16 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes caf'
  1515. [Sun Aug 16 13:10:23 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <False Prophecy>'
  1516. [Sun Aug 16 13:11:07 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '9-0-3?'
  1517. [Sun Aug 16 13:11:53 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote passed. We've now defined how to handle emergency infraction punishments.'
  1518. [Sun Aug 16 13:12:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Final topic guys'
  1519. [Sun Aug 16 13:12:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This is the case of CaF and thier last infringement'
  1520. [Sun Aug 16 13:12:32 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'accused infringement*'
  1521. [Sun Aug 16 13:12:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry, accused infringement'
  1522. [Sun Aug 16 13:13:09 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Is everyone aware of the situation, or should we go over it again here before voting '
  1523. [Sun Aug 16 13:13:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I should say, is anyone not aware of the situation'
  1524. [Sun Aug 16 13:13:35 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Quick summary before we hang Saytonic plz'
  1525. [Sun Aug 16 13:13:40 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'im unaware'
  1526. [Sun Aug 16 13:13:42 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Reccommend chair goes over details.'
  1527. [Sun Aug 16 13:13:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok...'
  1528. [Sun Aug 16 13:13:51 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'would like to motion for us to move forward with a clean slate '
  1529. [Sun Aug 16 13:13:59 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can't log in on forums to view either =('
  1530. [Sun Aug 16 13:14:07 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'login is back up'
  1531. [Sun Aug 16 13:14:11 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Hold on bonl, we'll need to vote on that'
  1532. [Sun Aug 16 13:14:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The situation was surrounding a Vox kill that happened a few nights ago.'
  1533. [Sun Aug 16 13:15:18 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This was all under the old rotation rules, and none that we've defined'
  1534. [Sun Aug 16 13:15:23 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'here are the facts: my guild, did nothing wrong. I* made a poor judgement call based on some information given to me, and was in the wrong. I accept that. My guild onyl did what any other would have which was what they were told.'
  1535. [Sun Aug 16 13:15:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hold on saytonic'
  1536. [Sun Aug 16 13:16:16 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It was FPs shot at the gatekeeper mob'
  1537. [Sun Aug 16 13:16:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vox'
  1538. [Sun Aug 16 13:16:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'They attempted, did not have the numbers to kill it, and failed'
  1539. [Sun Aug 16 13:16:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'A member of FP sent a tell to CaF saying it's yours'
  1540. [Sun Aug 16 13:17:12 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I don't know if this will help clarify things, but if CAF is being accused, can we know who is making the accusation?'
  1541. [Sun Aug 16 13:17:25 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, '^^'
  1542. [Sun Aug 16 13:17:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'CaF was under the impression they could take the mob from FP (it looked sincere and not an attempt to game the system, although thats personal interpretation)'
  1543. [Sun Aug 16 13:17:44 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what should have happened'
  1544. [Sun Aug 16 13:17:56 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Next guild in rota should have gotten it.'
  1545. [Sun Aug 16 13:17:57 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The main reason I ask this is I feel like already several times (as a TL offcier, not as council secretary) guilds have tried to drag me into disputes I have nothing to do with'
  1546. [Sun Aug 16 13:18:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The /guidehelp's all came from Twisted Legacy, Jain'
  1547. [Sun Aug 16 13:18:26 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Fair enough'
  1548. [Sun Aug 16 13:18:46 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I did not submit any of them, I'm not prepared to make any accusation, I was in bed'
  1549. [Sun Aug 16 13:18:52 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so FP failed on vox. should have gone to roe. FP /tell caf its yours, caf reacts and kills.'
  1550. [Sun Aug 16 13:18:54 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I dont think it's fair of me to post the screenshot names without their consent'
  1551. [Sun Aug 16 13:18:54 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, '..with my wife'
  1552. [Sun Aug 16 13:19:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Understood'
  1553. [Sun Aug 16 13:19:08 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The member in my guild that sent the tell didnt have the authority to do so'
  1554. [Sun Aug 16 13:19:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So, anyways, continuing on... CaF thought they had a go at Vox'
  1555. [Sun Aug 16 13:19:35 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i would like to add that in the week prior TL had given ceaseless a mob and jain stated in the leader forums that in her opinion if it someones mob it theirs to do with as they want thats from a TL officer'
  1556. [Sun Aug 16 13:19:36 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'And I'm not suggesting guilds are allowed to run rampant assuming no one will bring a charge against them'
  1557. [Sun Aug 16 13:19:36 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vox wouldnt have rotated, that was an ffa gatekeeper. After the 3 hours it would have been an ffa kill.'
  1558. [Sun Aug 16 13:19:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'They waited in the zone for some time after FP had failed'
  1559. [Sun Aug 16 13:19:54 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'And engaged Vox some time after that'
  1560. [Sun Aug 16 13:19:58 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The only issue here is if Caf engaged with or with out consent/before the 3 hours'
  1561. [Sun Aug 16 13:20:03 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Can i motion that we turn a new leaf and move on wtih the rules weve all agreed upon now?'
  1562. [Sun Aug 16 13:20:10 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I second'
  1563. [Sun Aug 16 13:20:23 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this is some childish crap in a rotation that is no longer in place'
  1564. [Sun Aug 16 13:20:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'CaF has shown us chat logs proving that FP had attempted to give them the mob (when they werent able to), indicating both sides were clearly not aware of the rules'
  1565. [Sun Aug 16 13:20:51 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'However, I have screenshots proving that members of TL messaged them stating they were in violation of the 3 hour w indow'
  1566. [Sun Aug 16 13:20:54 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'since were pissing on each other, what happened to ceaseless's mark for CT that day too? I dont even know when it spawned'
  1567. [Sun Aug 16 13:20:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'which were ignored'
  1568. [Sun Aug 16 13:20:58 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and i was on all day lol'
  1569. [Sun Aug 16 13:21:07 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, '@thalanos im boxing 24 toons'
  1570. [Sun Aug 16 13:21:12 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you think i see tells to 1 toon?'
  1571. [Sun Aug 16 13:21:24 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok quick question, Was Vox killed as a FFA mob, or was it supposed to be the next one in the rotation?'
  1572. [Sun Aug 16 13:21:25 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'lols crubbles'
  1573. [Sun Aug 16 13:21:45 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Guys, let the process we voted on run its course'
  1574. [Sun Aug 16 13:21:48 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vox was to be a gatekeeper for FP during the FFA period'
  1575. [Sun Aug 16 13:21:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if we all feel its crap, just vote not guilty'
  1576. [Sun Aug 16 13:22:03 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'vox was killed under the impression, it was FP's gatekeeper, they couldnt kill it, and gave it to us (which is allowed as per jains response on forums)'
  1577. [Sun Aug 16 13:22:06 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'CAF did not wait the 3 hours after it poped to engage'
  1578. [Sun Aug 16 13:22:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The mob was killed before the 3 hour gatekeeper timer had elapsed'
  1579. [Sun Aug 16 13:22:36 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so because TL told us so its law ? how would we know they were just trying to take the mob from us , as we are new to rotation and we engaged going in it with the facts we know'
  1580. [Sun Aug 16 13:22:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'that's a valid point Leche'
  1581. [Sun Aug 16 13:23:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The way i see these proceeding in the future is that all facts are presented from the accusers side, and all facts or statements are given from the defendant's side'
  1582. [Sun Aug 16 13:23:32 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'based on what happened in the previous week with TL / ceaseless we didnt even consider it was breaking the rules when we mobilized'
  1583. [Sun Aug 16 13:23:34 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'another note: there is soem clear hatred from false prophecy towards CaF in resposne form manvaril, i suggest it stops'
  1584. [Sun Aug 16 13:23:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'then there is a vote. simple.'
  1585. [Sun Aug 16 13:23:38 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you prevented the fair ffa window by taking it'
  1586. [Sun Aug 16 13:24:10 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well I suggest you keep your little comments to yourself then saytonics'
  1587. [Sun Aug 16 13:24:14 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Let's vote we are wasting so much time on oywb'
  1588. [Sun Aug 16 13:24:30 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Can we get back on track here.. a vote was called for earlier.. things has been explained and theres really nothing more to know about the case in point..'
  1589. [Sun Aug 16 13:24:50 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'call the vote.. and lets be done wtih it.. CaF already said htey would abide by whatever hte council decides on so lets just move on'
  1590. [Sun Aug 16 13:24:54 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i won't when you wanna put me out there like you just did so you STFU'
  1591. [Sun Aug 16 13:24:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Bonl, this is a new process and people need to be aware of it. I think this was all valid discussion'
  1592. [Sun Aug 16 13:25:09 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it is yes thalanos but its dragging out'
  1593. [Sun Aug 16 13:25:20 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what ifs and maybes'
  1594. [Sun Aug 16 13:25:21 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Some people had not even heard of the infraction'
  1595. [Sun Aug 16 13:25:25 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'or accused'
  1596. [Sun Aug 16 13:25:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'infraction'
  1597. [Sun Aug 16 13:25:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so it was necessary'
  1598. [Sun Aug 16 13:25:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Does anybody have any questions before we vote guilty/not guilty?'
  1599. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:00 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'id like to have it proven i was in violation first'
  1600. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:17 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I have one Thal'
  1601. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:21 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ORDER! Order! .... everyone plz calm down and let this council be a place of facts and for the betterment of all players on the server.'
  1602. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:24 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'go'
  1603. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:28 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Lots of proof your in violation Saytonic'
  1604. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:33 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'because as of right now you are yet to prove it as per jains response to ceaseless and CT'
  1605. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:36 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'id liek to see it?'
  1606. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:39 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'im hearing it'
  1607. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:40 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'So lets see the proof'
  1608. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:41 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yet to see it'
  1609. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:48 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Post it on the forums, we can come back to this in 24 hours'
  1610. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:58 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I seem to be being referenced a lot but not quoted'
  1611. [Sun Aug 16 13:26:59 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Use the rules we just set up'
  1612. [Sun Aug 16 13:27:23 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You mentioned that there was other stuff obtained via screenshots and/or fraps that wasn't seen by all. Is that something that is going to be excluded from not only this discussion, but other discussions to be had in the event of further perceived violations?'
  1613. [Sun Aug 16 13:27:26 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I am not going to find hang somene on the word of people I dont know'
  1614. [Sun Aug 16 13:27:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'May I have the floor for a moment?'
  1615. [Sun Aug 16 13:27:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Is this what the group wants? Open it up for discussion for 24 hours f orum post? I will need to get permission from the person who to ok the screenshots and fraps.'
  1616. [Sun Aug 16 13:28:04 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why are screenshots needed? no one is dying the mob died.'
  1617. [Sun Aug 16 13:28:25 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what do u plan to post? a SS of so and so messaging me'
  1618. [Sun Aug 16 13:28:25 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what's to be decided here? CaF was told mob is yours and they took it? what proof is neded?'
  1619. [Sun Aug 16 13:28:32 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if the screen shots are simply TL posting they sent us a tell that is not eveidence '
  1620. [Sun Aug 16 13:28:40 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'exactly that is a fucking joke'
  1621. [Sun Aug 16 13:29:04 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'here let me make an unguilded alt real quick and tell you I just saw TL broke the rotation'
  1622. [Sun Aug 16 13:29:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Leche, you admitted to DBG in the forum post that you received tells that you were in violation of the 3 hour rule'
  1623. [Sun Aug 16 13:29:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Do I need to copy/paste that and post it on the forums, or should we get this done and over with?'
  1624. [Sun Aug 16 13:29:28 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'what does that have to do with anything?'
  1625. [Sun Aug 16 13:29:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sigh'
  1626. [Sun Aug 16 13:29:36 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'anyone can message and say you are in violation'
  1627. [Sun Aug 16 13:29:43 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'is his point'
  1628. [Sun Aug 16 13:29:43 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'actually i posted i did NOT receive any tells'
  1629. [Sun Aug 16 13:30:02 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this council is not a joke... it is vital for the health of the server community. Without this council DBG would force some rules on us all that nobody would like.'
  1630. [Sun Aug 16 13:30:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Here is a fact'
  1631. [Sun Aug 16 13:30:20 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'they wanted a 3 day ban'
  1632. [Sun Aug 16 13:30:26 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We are here because we feel you dont deserve that'
  1633. [Sun Aug 16 13:30:27 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'before seeing evidence'
  1634. [Sun Aug 16 13:30:36 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We are not the enemy... stop impeding progress'
  1635. [Sun Aug 16 13:30:39 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Daybreak games found CaF guilty'
  1636. [Sun Aug 16 13:30:50 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hold on 1moment im going to quote jain here'
  1637. [Sun Aug 16 13:31:00 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'us getting banned would be like our entire guild calling sony and askign for roshen to be fired with no proof'
  1638. [Sun Aug 16 13:31:16 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You got a vox kill that wasn't yours, give your next vox up and let's all be done with this!'
  1639. [Sun Aug 16 13:31:30 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no because we did not break any rules'
  1640. [Sun Aug 16 13:31:35 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we willd iscuss that hold on please,'
  1641. [Sun Aug 16 13:32:03 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We've already been through over 24 discussion of proof'
  1642. [Sun Aug 16 13:32:12 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we're now voting to d ecide if CaF should be administered punishment'
  1643. [Sun Aug 16 13:32:24 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok vote'
  1644. [Sun Aug 16 13:32:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Should we administer punishment to CaF Yes/no/abstain'
  1645. [Sun Aug 16 13:32:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  1646. [Sun Aug 16 13:32:38 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no TLG'
  1647. [Sun Aug 16 13:32:40 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i asked you to hold'
  1648. [Sun Aug 16 13:32:50 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'please respect my position as i respected yours'
  1649. [Sun Aug 16 13:32:50 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '.....'
  1650. [Sun Aug 16 13:32:55 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'holding'
  1651. [Sun Aug 16 13:33:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What are we holding for'
  1652. [Sun Aug 16 13:33:15 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think he is looking to quote me'
  1653. [Sun Aug 16 13:33:18 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'he's getting a jain quote'
  1654. [Sun Aug 16 13:33:18 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'quote: from jain CT had not been up for 3 hours, CT was not FFA. A guild has the right to trade a rotation mob to another guild'
  1655. [Sun Aug 16 13:33:34 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'In return, I'm going to quote the old rules:'
  1656. [Sun Aug 16 13:33:35 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We didnt trade it '
  1657. [Sun Aug 16 13:33:40 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '"6. A guild may trade it's rotation position with another guild. The spreadsheet must be updated accordingly."'
  1658. [Sun Aug 16 13:33:42 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it was FFA'
  1659. [Sun Aug 16 13:33:55 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it wasnt a trade'
  1660. [Sun Aug 16 13:33:56 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'False Prophecy was not a rotation guild and didn't have a rotation position'
  1661. [Sun Aug 16 13:33:57 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'quote: As a part of leadership, I'd like to ask that you understand that there was miscommunication between us, Ceaseless, and False Prophecy which led to False Prophecy participating. You don't necessarily have to accept that, but that's what happened.'
  1662. [Sun Aug 16 13:33:57 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Gatekeeper'
  1663. [Sun Aug 16 13:34:03 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If we want to kangaroo this, lets just do it on the forums. Its clear there is a ton ofg debate'
  1664. [Sun Aug 16 13:34:14 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so because there was miscommunication we let that slide'
  1665. [Sun Aug 16 13:34:17 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'but hang CaF?'
  1666. [Sun Aug 16 13:34:22 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'interesting'
  1667. [Sun Aug 16 13:34:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I don't think anyone is going to hang you'
  1668. [Sun Aug 16 13:34:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I think we're trying to vote not to hang you'
  1669. [Sun Aug 16 13:34:42 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the point is the fact that this got brought up'
  1670. [Sun Aug 16 13:34:49 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it has to'
  1671. [Sun Aug 16 13:35:01 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'move forward / spit on the floor'
  1672. [Sun Aug 16 13:35:31 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'there is blatent favortism going on is my point,'
  1673. [Sun Aug 16 13:35:40 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Saytonic... I think most people here, myself included, believe that you were mislead that Vox was yours. The only part that is open to discussion is whether or not CaF is guilty of ignoring the tells that were sent after you had engaged (and the fact that you waited to engage until TL zoned in)'
  1674. [Sun Aug 16 13:35:40 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'please call for your vote Thalanos'
  1675. [Sun Aug 16 13:35:41 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i could care less of the outcome i wills till jerk off 2night in peace'
  1676. [Sun Aug 16 13:35:42 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'welcome to my world'
  1677. [Sun Aug 16 13:35:56 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'hold'
  1678. [Sun Aug 16 13:36:24 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if any tells were sent it was prior to us engaging we were trained during our first attempt long before anyone else arrived'
  1679. [Sun Aug 16 13:36:28 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'mislead may be the case, regardless, i do not see how we are in any violation'
  1680. [Sun Aug 16 13:36:36 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I don't understand why we are hungry for blood when we just voted in rules to table this kind of crap to the forums'
  1681. [Sun Aug 16 13:36:47 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, we have to stop this now and get it to a vote'
  1682. [Sun Aug 16 13:36:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We've already been through the forum phase, Elend'
  1683. [Sun Aug 16 13:37:06 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I am not sitting here another minute wasting time on this, if we want to debate and c`bl like this we agree'd earlier to take i on forums for 24hours and vote'
  1684. [Sun Aug 16 13:37:10 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '24 ho urs with DBG forums is why we're having this discussion now'
  1685. [Sun Aug 16 13:37:12 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Put it to a vote and lets get on with our lives.'
  1686. [Sun Aug 16 13:37:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'PMs'
  1687. [Sun Aug 16 13:37:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We're voting now...'
  1688. [Sun Aug 16 13:37:40 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No we have not. half of us spoke to Roshen on that post'
  1689. [Sun Aug 16 13:37:44 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Should we administer punishment on CaF Yes/no/abstain'
  1690. [Sun Aug 16 13:37:47 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote Now'
  1691. [Sun Aug 16 13:37:56 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <rosengard>'
  1692. [Sun Aug 16 13:37:57 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Darkwind>'
  1693. [Sun Aug 16 13:37:59 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This is some crazy crap'
  1694. [Sun Aug 16 13:38:02 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no TLG'
  1695. [Sun Aug 16 13:38:04 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Tempus>'
  1696. [Sun Aug 16 13:38:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Abstain <Twisted Legacy>'
  1697. [Sun Aug 16 13:38:06 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Ceaeseless>'
  1698. [Sun Aug 16 13:38:10 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes CaF'
  1699. [Sun Aug 16 13:38:14 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, ',,!,,'
  1700. [Sun Aug 16 13:38:14 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, '...'
  1701. [Sun Aug 16 13:38:16 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No < Evening Reign >'
  1702. [Sun Aug 16 13:38:30 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Abstain <False Prophecy> - We where infracted against - we have no footing in decing punishment '
  1703. [Sun Aug 16 13:38:53 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Iif we are going to kangaroo court this shit in the future then we may as well tell Roshen to decide our fate'
  1704. [Sun Aug 16 13:39:24 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'For, 1. Opposed 6. Abstain 4. Vote fails'
  1705. [Sun Aug 16 13:39:38 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Elend... the point of the forums was to allow 24 hous of discussion. We've had far more than that. '
  1706. [Sun Aug 16 13:39:43 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thank you..moving forward we arent trying to be dicks'
  1707. [Sun Aug 16 13:39:51 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'we are trying to be fair'
  1708. [Sun Aug 16 13:39:58 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'You owe me a lightsaber Saytonic, Thank you'
  1709. [Sun Aug 16 13:40:05 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, the council has found CaF not guilty, and therefore no punishment is administered.'
  1710. [Sun Aug 16 13:40:30 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no we have not had 24 hours of talking. I see 7 maybe 8 guilds reading and posting on that Roshen topic'
  1711. [Sun Aug 16 13:40:32 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'That is all that is on the agenda for today. Does anybody else have anything before we motion to adjourn?'
  1712. [Sun Aug 16 13:40:35 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'If you want to do this right, do it right'
  1713. [Sun Aug 16 13:40:45 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Don't ask me to sit here and waste my time and not follow your own rules'
  1714. [Sun Aug 16 13:41:02 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i had one thing but i think i forgot'
  1715. [Sun Aug 16 13:41:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Elend, I think we all knew that we would receive more than 3 No votes. WHy are you making this difficult over a topic we've already rehashed. yes, it was very clear in the PM with roshen.'
  1716. [Sun Aug 16 13:41:39 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I would like to thank everyone here for participating in an effort to make this server a better community. '
  1717. [Sun Aug 16 13:41:46 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm glad you have a wake memory right now Bonlgon :) Thanks for the meeting'
  1718. [Sun Aug 16 13:41:55 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Because you sidestepped your own rules, I fully knew CAF wouldnt be punished for something in an old rotation, but dont make rules, and then ignore them'
  1719. [Sun Aug 16 13:42:08 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'it does not look well to the future, next time perhaps its my guild and you decide to follow them all of a sudden'
  1720. [Sun Aug 16 13:42:12 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'This council didn't make those rules'
  1721. [Sun Aug 16 13:43:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Anyway once we adjourn I will get the minutes formatted and post them with the logs'
  1722. [Sun Aug 16 13:43:22 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Elend, you don't believe that the conversations we had with DBG were sufficient?'
  1723. [Sun Aug 16 13:43:29 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'with all 10 guild leaders being present?'
  1724. [Sun Aug 16 13:43:33 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'sorry 12'
  1725. [Sun Aug 16 13:43:43 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Thalanos, once again thanks for withstanding 12 msueygfr and finding some common ground with us, Where can I check the results of the new Rotation so I can alert my guild in case we are up for tomorrow?'
  1726. [Sun Aug 16 13:44:12 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No I dont, I didnt see this proof people are spouting off about. You claim to, I never did.'
  1727. [Sun Aug 16 13:44:42 2015] Avatarr tells RotationCouncil:4, 'nap time for me'
  1728. [Sun Aug 16 13:45:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I dont have permission to release it. I should have never mentioned it. But I can assure you, I'm not here to be anybody's friend. I'm here so that things are fair.'
  1729. [Sun Aug 16 13:45:08 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I wouldnt have voted against caf anyways. The point is being consistent, impartial moderator. if thats not you, get lost.'
  1730. [Sun Aug 16 13:45:15 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Can we set this aside? This is what Roshen said in the thread: "As for Canadian Armed Forces, the guides responsible for collecting messages via /guidehelp on Ragefire came to the decision today that Canadian Armed Forces did violate the rotation, and asked us to take action against the guild." We voted on punishing and chose not to. The end.'
  1731. [Sun Aug 16 13:45:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I agree Elend. But I believe those procedures were already followed. We can agree to disagree.'
  1732. [Sun Aug 16 13:46:04 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Agreed'
  1733. [Sun Aug 16 13:46:05 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'well ofcourse when is the last time they got a Guild 101 is awesome they deserver to be rewarded'
  1734. [Sun Aug 16 13:46:13 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'GM dont get good email they only get complaints'
  1735. [Sun Aug 16 13:46:24 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Jain how about you read back the minutes to our friend here about the 24 hour forum post on the ragefire post. Of course you don't need to, Thalanos does not care.'
  1736. [Sun Aug 16 13:46:33 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Moot point of course'
  1737. [Sun Aug 16 13:46:35 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'maybe thats what we shoulda done had all our friends and guild /guidehelp and say CAF was rigth ahve a nice day'
  1738. [Sun Aug 16 13:47:10 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Elend I agree with Sagnid, this was a specific agenda item related to a request from Daybreak themselves to discuss/vote on this. It doesn't touch anything decided on today.'
  1739. [Sun Aug 16 13:47:18 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'With Thalanos* god im tireed'
  1740. [Sun Aug 16 13:47:25 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I am Sagnid'
  1741. [Sun Aug 16 13:47:31 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Sorry you dont need to know all 24 of my characters'
  1742. [Sun Aug 16 13:47:33 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I know, mistyped'
  1743. [Sun Aug 16 13:47:55 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'The point stands, we made rules. We didnt follow them.'
  1744. [Sun Aug 16 13:47:57 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we pick next meeting time so we can adjourn please?'
  1745. [Sun Aug 16 13:48:01 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I will note that for the future.'
  1746. [Sun Aug 16 13:48:17 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I will enter your objection into the minutes'
  1747. [Sun Aug 16 13:48:32 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i remember now what my last thing was!'
  1748. [Sun Aug 16 13:49:11 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Jesus I think you guys actually enjoy these meetings.. Seems no one wants to leave lol'
  1749. [Sun Aug 16 13:49:20 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'love it!'
  1750. [Sun Aug 16 13:49:35 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'A new gatekeeper once they nerf mobs again on next weds!'
  1751. [Sun Aug 16 13:49:35 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Cant leave until someone calls end of ordered, so we don't get screwed on last minute votes.'
  1752. [Sun Aug 16 13:49:47 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'every day i wake up and mark off the days on my calendar to the next meeting with little Smiley faces'
  1753. [Sun Aug 16 13:49:49 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We already picked the next meeting time, it's the 29th at 2pm est'
  1754. [Sun Aug 16 13:50:00 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I second Bonlgon'
  1755. [Sun Aug 16 13:50:05 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'ok, i motion to adjourn the meeting'
  1756. [Sun Aug 16 13:50:10 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i was always worried that the gate keeper we picked was to easy.. '
  1757. [Sun Aug 16 13:50:31 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'and now that they nerf the mobs... well.. that just makes it even more troublesome'
  1758. [Sun Aug 16 13:50:34 2015] Leche tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i 3rd Bonlgon notion'
  1759. [Sun Aug 16 13:50:39 2015] Melveny tells RotationCouncil:4, 'have we voted on 8 hour windows?'
  1760. [Sun Aug 16 13:50:55 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the expansion is almost over, and new mobs will be picked for Kunark anyway'
  1761. [Sun Aug 16 13:50:59 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'That will be brought up in the next meeting, Melveny'
  1762. [Sun Aug 16 13:51:00 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No Melveny, it wasnt sent in advance for the agenda, so it was refused to be voted on'
  1763. [Sun Aug 16 13:51:27 2015] Bonlgon tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes ryani that is true.. how do we determine what guilds is on the rotation when we start out then? the ones that beat the old gatekeeper?'
  1764. [Sun Aug 16 13:51:28 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if you all would like to re-open it, I'm fine with it. It was for the sake of saving time.'
  1765. [Sun Aug 16 13:51:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Do we want to discuss vote on it? It's something of a change to things but what do people want'
  1766. [Sun Aug 16 13:51:52 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, '8/8/8 is prefered by Darkwind'
  1767. [Sun Aug 16 13:53:00 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'There are at least two kinds of playstyles represented here, those who enjoy FFA and those who prefer rotating, and I don't think TL can support reducing the FFA time further.'
  1768. [Sun Aug 16 13:53:01 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '8/8/8 My suggestion would be FFA: 2AM-10AM, Slot A: 10AM-6PM (4PM-12PM Euro), and Slot B: 6PM-2AM. Get rid of all "pushback" windows. '
  1769. [Sun Aug 16 13:53:20 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'can we move that topic to next meeting?'
  1770. [Sun Aug 16 13:53:40 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'if they are nerfing all of the current rotation mobs, what difference does it make? There's going to likely be new rules and a new rotation once Kunark opens anyway'
  1771. [Sun Aug 16 13:53:44 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I know Matthias and Melveny have requested this be discussed so I don't want to shut down the floor if there is support for it'
  1772. [Sun Aug 16 13:53:54 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'It was suggested that we do. We would have to re-review all rules in place to change our rotation.'
  1773. [Sun Aug 16 13:54:07 2015] Tarri tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Scipio will be taking over for Ceaseless'
  1774. [Sun Aug 16 13:54:23 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'why would rules have to be revaluated'
  1775. [Sun Aug 16 13:54:26 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'What rules would ahve to be reviewed for the changes?'
  1776. [Sun Aug 16 13:54:35 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We removed the 3 hour expand'
  1777. [Sun Aug 16 13:54:35 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the times change, thats all'
  1778. [Sun Aug 16 13:54:38 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I cant think of any, other then the hours.'
  1779. [Sun Aug 16 13:54:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'There may or may not be. I'd have to review'
  1780. [Sun Aug 16 13:54:50 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, '1/3 chance for each'
  1781. [Sun Aug 16 13:55:06 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no wonky splits'
  1782. [Sun Aug 16 13:55:12 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It's really 1/3 for FFA and 2/3 for rotate'
  1783. [Sun Aug 16 13:55:32 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its still fair and allows guilds to flow better'
  1784. [Sun Aug 16 13:55:47 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as it stood we had 2 days we didnt have a spawn in window'
  1785. [Sun Aug 16 13:55:48 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm not so much making an argument as noting the math'
  1786. [Sun Aug 16 13:56:06 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It will change from a 46/54 split to 33/66 split, FFA vs rotate'
  1787. [Sun Aug 16 13:56:23 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Which I think benefits the rotation even better'
  1788. [Sun Aug 16 13:56:34 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Oh definitely'
  1789. [Sun Aug 16 13:56:50 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'With more guilds entering rotation, too much FFA will just make it a 2-3 week spand for a kill.'
  1790. [Sun Aug 16 13:56:52 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Assigning all the mobs to a particular guild will really benefit that guild too'
  1791. [Sun Aug 16 13:57:12 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Rules 2.3, 2.4, 2.10 need to be modified'
  1792. [Sun Aug 16 13:57:14 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thats not how it works Jain'
  1793. [Sun Aug 16 13:57:28 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'No I'm just saying, this is zero sum'
  1794. [Sun Aug 16 13:57:36 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Every benefit in one area is a loss in another'
  1795. [Sun Aug 16 13:57:42 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Im sorry - Maybe i am lost to why that is - explain Thalanos?'
  1796. [Sun Aug 16 13:57:45 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Changing the rules does not increase the number of spawns'
  1797. [Sun Aug 16 13:58:00 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'They explicitly call out times and hours'
  1798. [Sun Aug 16 13:58:04 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'And in fact, if mobs remain up for 3 hours per day, may actually reduce the number of spawns'
  1799. [Sun Aug 16 13:58:08 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'your only changing times in those rules not rewriting them Thal'
  1800. [Sun Aug 16 13:58:11 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No it removes some kills from FFA that slows down the rotation'
  1801. [Sun Aug 16 13:58:17 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Agree'
  1802. [Sun Aug 16 13:58:18 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'But I'm curious as to the consensus of the community'
  1803. [Sun Aug 16 13:58:30 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes and it adds to the rotation which slows down FFA'
  1804. [Sun Aug 16 13:58:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'just stating we need to modify and vote on them if changed is all'
  1805. [Sun Aug 16 13:58:38 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'It's completely two sides of the same coin'
  1806. [Sun Aug 16 13:59:07 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Unless rotation guulds that don't participate in FFA are planning to kill mobs at Midnight - 2am EST, I don't see how this is positive for us. I can tell you our guild won't be moving on anything in that expanded window. It will just end up FFA anyway.'
  1807. [Sun Aug 16 13:59:43 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'then let it go to FFA'
  1808. [Sun Aug 16 13:59:48 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Easy'
  1809. [Sun Aug 16 14:00:08 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'not really Phin, if you have it agroed at 1:59AM EST then it's still in your window'
  1810. [Sun Aug 16 14:00:37 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'as long as you have agro before the FFA starts it's yours'
  1811. [Sun Aug 16 14:00:51 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I know, Just saying we wouldn't touch it in that window.'
  1812. [Sun Aug 16 14:01:01 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I think his point was, most of the guilds who care about the timeslots wont even raid that late'
  1813. [Sun Aug 16 14:01:05 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'FFA would get it killed faster'
  1814. [Sun Aug 16 14:01:15 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes thal'
  1815. [Sun Aug 16 14:01:18 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'This is primarily for EU guilds tbh'
  1816. [Sun Aug 16 14:01:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Yeah my concern isn't so much the 8/8/8 or whatever would be picked, it's more of a down-the-road thing. We have different playstyles and they feel very... unprotected.'
  1817. [Sun Aug 16 14:01:24 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Currently out timeslot is complete n utter crap'
  1818. [Sun Aug 16 14:01:50 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'its the firest i could see to split it'
  1819. [Sun Aug 16 14:01:58 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Jain must of the server is not willing or able to play like you or I. Shouldnt be support their play styles, and afford them an equal share?'
  1820. [Sun Aug 16 14:02:02 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'FFA will still be a big part of this'
  1821. [Sun Aug 16 14:02:17 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no elend'
  1822. [Sun Aug 16 14:02:25 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'The FFA guilds need to respect the playstyle of the rotation guilds, and I likewise ask for the rotation guilds to respect the playstyles of the FFA guilds.'
  1823. [Sun Aug 16 14:02:25 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the 8/8/8 would make so much more sense to European guilds'
  1824. [Sun Aug 16 14:02:41 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'this is how i look at it, the game has its own mechanics and spawn times for a reason'
  1825. [Sun Aug 16 14:02:49 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'who are you to stipulate '
  1826. [Sun Aug 16 14:02:57 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'everything should be FFA!'
  1827. [Sun Aug 16 14:03:13 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'We're getting toward the end of classic and we've had our fair share of FFA, I'm not saying 8/8/8 is a problem'
  1828. [Sun Aug 16 14:03:23 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I'm requesting that we look at the big picture, that's all'
  1829. [Sun Aug 16 14:03:24 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'i am'
  1830. [Sun Aug 16 14:03:26 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Whrong Channel saytonic '
  1831. [Sun Aug 16 14:03:41 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'you couldnt possibly be saying that in here'
  1832. [Sun Aug 16 14:04:18 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'the big picture is this'
  1833. [Sun Aug 16 14:04:25 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, '3/4 of these ppl will be gone in a few months'
  1834. [Sun Aug 16 14:04:26 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I want all of you to think of the rotation when we look into 8/8/8 it brings more mobs into the rotation which brings the rotation up to speed. Because we cut off 4 hours of the FFA. Now that we have taken away the extended 3hours from US and EU timezones, I think this is only fair.'
  1835. [Sun Aug 16 14:04:38 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'myself and jain will be left to pick up the pieces, like fippy'
  1836. [Sun Aug 16 14:04:40 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thanks alot'
  1837. [Sun Aug 16 14:04:54 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I get what he is saying though. The most self-interesed position of the FFA guilds is 'everything should be ffa' and the most self-interested of the rotation guilds is "everything should be rotated"'
  1838. [Sun Aug 16 14:05:09 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'These more or less seem to be the starting points across the table'
  1839. [Sun Aug 16 14:05:24 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I felt like 50/50 was a fine split and we tacked on an extra hour because NA has 4 time zones'
  1840. [Sun Aug 16 14:06:09 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '8/8/8 isnt bad in and of itself, that's not what I'm saying'
  1841. [Sun Aug 16 14:06:16 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Anyway I've talked a lot, I think I've had my say'
  1842. [Sun Aug 16 14:06:19 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Well it was agree'd upon that EU could get another hour if they wanted aswell and if the 8/8/8 is not coming along, then that's what we would like to have, extend our timezone from 5-12pm'
  1843. [Sun Aug 16 14:06:27 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, let's vote. Should we further discuss the 8/8/8 rotation, or should it be tabled until our next meeting on the 29th?'
  1844. [Sun Aug 16 14:06:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Ok, let's vote. Should we further discuss the 8/8/8 rotation, or should it be tabled until our next meeting on the 29th? yes/no/abstain'
  1845. [Sun Aug 16 14:06:41 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Vote now'
  1846. [Sun Aug 16 14:06:49 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes FP'
  1847. [Sun Aug 16 14:06:52 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'so no means table it?'
  1848. [Sun Aug 16 14:06:56 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'correct'
  1849. [Sun Aug 16 14:07:03 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'No (Table) <Twisted Legacy>'
  1850. [Sun Aug 16 14:07:10 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No <Tempus>'
  1851. [Sun Aug 16 14:07:20 2015] Elend tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <TLG>'
  1852. [Sun Aug 16 14:07:21 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no caf'
  1853. [Sun Aug 16 14:07:31 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'No < Evening Reign >'
  1854. [Sun Aug 16 14:07:31 2015] Marthisdil tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no (table) <Remnants of Prexus>'
  1855. [Sun Aug 16 14:07:31 2015] Smoelfen tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Yes <Darkwind>'
  1856. [Sun Aug 16 14:08:37 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '4 pending votes, will wait for internal discussion to finish'
  1857. [Sun Aug 16 14:08:54 2015] Scrubbles tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no <RG>'
  1858. [Sun Aug 16 14:09:07 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Apok, RoE... who else?'
  1859. [Sun Aug 16 14:09:43 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Ceaseless also?'
  1860. [Sun Aug 16 14:10:22 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Current count is 3-6-3, any final votes being cast for the record?'
  1861. [Sun Aug 16 14:11:00 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, '3 for, 6 opposed, 3 abstain, vote fails'
  1862. [Sun Aug 16 14:11:15 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'I do think we need to think about balancing thing better for Kunark btw'
  1863. [Sun Aug 16 14:11:57 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'We will add the 8/8/8 to the next meeting agenda'
  1864. [Sun Aug 16 14:12:19 2015] Matthias tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thank you'
  1865. [Sun Aug 16 14:12:23 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Please be sure to PM any items you want to discuss for the next meeting. Every item i have received has been brought up'
  1866. [Sun Aug 16 14:12:23 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'when is the vote and subsequent unlock dates, anyone have them handy?'
  1867. [Sun Aug 16 14:12:24 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'thalanos did u get my pm on ragefireforums'
  1868. [Sun Aug 16 14:12:31 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'just now?'
  1869. [Sun Aug 16 14:12:37 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'like an hr ago'
  1870. [Sun Aug 16 14:12:46 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'no i will look'
  1871. [Sun Aug 16 14:12:47 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Unless there are any objections I am going to enter that vote as Yes / Table / Abstain'
  1872. [Sun Aug 16 14:13:20 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'wierd cant get on forums'
  1873. [Sun Aug 16 14:13:25 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'says fu too many connections'
  1874. [Sun Aug 16 14:14:08 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'shall we adjourn?'
  1875. [Sun Aug 16 14:14:18 2015] Phinius tells RotationCouncil:4, 'aye'
  1876. [Sun Aug 16 14:14:20 2015] You tell RotationCouncil:4, 'Aye'
  1877. [Sun Aug 16 14:14:22 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'nod'
  1878. [Sun Aug 16 14:14:37 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'I motion to adjourn the meeting'
  1879. [Sun Aug 16 14:14:37 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'yes please'
  1880. [Sun Aug 16 14:14:42 2015] Ryanilin tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second'
  1881. [Sun Aug 16 14:14:43 2015] Mylene tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second'
  1882. [Sun Aug 16 14:14:44 2015] Manvaril tells RotationCouncil:4, 'second'
  1883. [Sun Aug 16 14:14:49 2015] Saytonic tells RotationCouncil:4, 'third'
  1884. [Sun Aug 16 14:15:02 2015] Thalanos tells RotationCouncil:4, 'Carried. Thanks for sticking this out all. See you on the 29th.'
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