April: Another month of UI improvements...

Another month of UI improvements from the HCI experts at KDE and GNOME (designers of Unity) and Linux marketshare has improved to...

1%!

http://www.netmarketshare.com/report.aspx?qprid=9&qpaf=&qpcustom=Linux&qpcustomb=0

Tune in next month to see where these cotinued improvements to the UI leaves Linux users.

SPOILER ALERT:
It will be 1%.

Same as it ever was.


--
"While pregnant for me, my mom continued to drink, at least for the 1st trimester if not more." - Snit

cc stated in post
15898576.1141.1335876374477.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yncd9 on 5/1/12
5:46 AM:
Check January on your link. LOL!

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/LinuxTrendMar2012Snit-vs-cc.png>

Amazing how much that is *clearly* pissing you off.


--
🙈🙉🙊

I see it. Linux has been on a significant downward trend since then. Since January there has been a negative correlation between improvements to the UI and percentage of Linux users. Perhaps my 1% estimate for next month was too high!
Why would I be pissed? I know what outliers are. Since you refused to go back any farther on your trendline, will you continue to add data from the upcoming months? Or are you satisified with arbitrarily assigned sample size?

cc stated in post
5486957.2866.1335880519180.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjj38 on 5/1/12
6:55 AM:
cc #1:
-----
-----

cc #2:
-----
-----

LOL!

As far as why you are pissed, you *always* get pissed when you are proved
wrong. You end up obsessing over the topic, lying, making up quotes,
setting your sig to try to offend or embarrass me, claiming your own data
set is one *I* "arbitrarily picked (you even do that, above), etc.

In short, when you are proved wrong - which is often - you just freak out.
And I laugh about it and refuse to sink to your level, which just pisses you
off more. And the most hilarious part is you feel the need to ask about
this as if you were not aware how obvious it is.



--
🙈🙉🙊

That site will show the same Linux share as long as the checks from
Microsoft keep coming.

So I take it you won't be updating your already out of date "statistics"?
Yes, making observations on arbitrarily picked dates and small sample sizes containing outliers is pretty funny.
Oh, your link shows data for the past 10 years now?
What have I been proved wrong about in this case? I posted a link showing no improvement to Linux usage. You pointed to January, and since then there's actually been a decline. Considering Linux has been at 1% forever, my estimate for next month seems pretty likely.

How would you characterize the last 10 years of Linux usage?

The problem is Snit is technical and you're not. Also, you don't
understand correlation. And you're functionally illiterate.

Snit's graph clearly shows what Snit says it shows: an upward trend in
Linux usage. Never mind that pesky data - you can't understand it anyway.

cc stated in post
32520311.2786.1335883456393.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynbv35 on 5/1/12
7:44 AM:

...
Here is the link:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/LinuxTrendMar2012Snit-vs-cc.png>

If you want to update the info each month feel free. I am *not* your
research assistant.

But, hey, admit to your lies, apologize, and agree to stop lying about me
and I will do you the favor of keeping those stats up to date for the next 6
months.

But you will not: as we have already seen, you prefer to be dishonest than
to be educated.
You picked the dates you are now whining about. Oh, and you ignored the
fact you contradicted yourself. Is it the same as it always was or is there
a downward trend?

Make up your mind!
Where did you even get that idea? I used *your* data. Stop whining.
I do not care if you are pretending to not know or are you really so
ignorant you cannot understand the above. Such a discussion is a side issue
I have no interest in.
Wow... you are really good at stats! LOL!
Wait, in your last sentence you referred to a time when it was not at 1%.
Make up your mind!
My views on that have not changed since the last time you asked.



--
🙈🙉🙊

DFS stated in post jnourb$gja$1...@dont-email.me on 5/1/12 8:17 AM:
If cc wanted to make a point, he *could* argue that there was an upward
trend that seems to not be lasting... the current data point he added, being
at 1%, would seem to support such a possibility. It may very well be that
there was a temporary upswing and now the usage is returning to about 1% and
will stay at that, give or take a tiny amount, for the next while.

This would go against the idea that the focus on the UI has lead to a
long-lasting increase in Linux usage (at least by user percentage). And
that is possible - the increased focus (or whatever lead to the increase in
usage by percentage) might not have a long lasting affect.

If cc was not lost on the topic he could make such a point: but instead he
repeatedly talks about the last 10 years worth of data - data he has not
supplied nor shown a source for (at least not one that is easy to access)
and so he wants me to do research *for* him as he lies about me. He also
makes up stories about how I picked an arbitrary range of data: when I first
used an industry standard year-over-year comparison (not an arbitrary time
period picked for no reason, as he claimed) and then used the 24 month time
frame *he* picked out. So, yes, he picked a time frame and then accused
*me* of selecting an arbitrary time frame. He lied.

And his actions show he knows this - look at his .sig: he is back to
obsessing over me and trying to humiliate me. Ok, tit-for-tat... I will
sink *partially* to his level and set my .sig to sometimes quote his BS.

Gee, how useful and mature... we can use our sigs to "attack" each other.
That will really help to make our points. :)

Still, the Xerox debate was one of my favorites with cc: just so clear he is
wrong and so clear he runs from it. It does make me chuckle. :)


--
Proof cc is clueless about his Xerox claims:
<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/b8aa8b17d0a6dfde>

I don't really give a shit what you do, but you keep posting that link as if it is somehow meaningful, when it grows more and more meaningless all the time.
I did not contradict myself. I made fun of you by pointing out that if you pick arbitrary dates which significantly factor in anomolies, then you can say practically anything. So YOU pointed at the January number, which would lead one to believe that Linux is on the decline. Or you can take a small snapshot of data, post a graph, and claim that Linux usage is on the rise. OR you could not be an idiot and realize Linux has remained at 1% forever.
Oh, so you did arbitrarily picked a dataset since from the beginning I've said for the last 10 years Linux has been at one percent, and you are not showing anything to contradict that.
I'm not saying UI improvements are the cause of Linux using users, but there is a very obvious correlation between UI improvements and the decline of Linux users, with a little lag time factored in of course.
Yes, if you scan back the last ten years you can find individual times when it was higher or lower than 1%. I would not use those isolated points in time when making any future predictions. Would you?
The last time I asked you dodged the question...

So true. I'm so functionally illiterate I think it's funny that he claims HCI and Usability Experts are working on KDE and GNOME while simultaneously linking to cartoons which depict shitty interfaces that he claims describes Linux.

The UI is developed by experts, except it is shitty, but improvements are bringing in more and more users, except that Linux is at 1% as usual. Clearly, I don't understand what I read.

cc stated in post
8134949.251.1335894702210.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjm2 on 5/1/12
10:51 AM:
1) You claim to not care what I do as you beg me to help you with some
stats, react immaturely to my proving you wrong, and otherwise prove this
claim of yours is a lie.

2) You have no explanation for the clear contradictions of yours... just a
silly denial.
3) You repeatedly whine about me using "arbitrary" dates, even though I used
to sets of dates: the industry standard year-over-year and then *your*
selected range of 24 months. Your claim of my date selection is a lie, as
quoted and shown in the link, below:

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/LinuxTrendMar2012Snit-vs-cc.png>

4) You keep talking about your arbitrary "10 year" range and begging me to
help you analyze it... but you fail to show the data and show no
understanding that people are more likely to help you if you can prevent
yourself from lying about them. Poor cc... mean old Snit is not digging up
data from the last 10 years just to satisfy cc's desire to better understand
that arbitrarily selected range of his. Wahhhhh! LOL!

5) You have been repeatedly proved wrong and ignorant and are obviously
lashing out. And it amused me. That does not sit well with you. Oh well.

6) You dishonestly claimed I dodged a question I did not. What I have done
is told you my views have not changed... if you ask *nicely* I will even
point you to where I gave you my views previously. But if you keep lying
then you can just muddle in your own ignorance. And, yes, I know you prefer
the latter.


--
🙈🙉🙊

cc stated in post
24351570.683.1335894975796.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjn3 on 5/1/12
10:56 AM:
Glad to see you admit it.
Yes, you are. The rest of your sentence is not needed.
Nobody ever claimed you understood what I have been telling you.
No, you don't. Good to see you admit to it.


--
cc:
-----
-----

Since you don't feel like answering that question, how about a new one: Given all the data you have, the data you think you have, and the data you've pulled out of your ass, what is your prediction for next month's Linux desktop share? You should have more than enough info to provide a guesstimate.

cc stated in post
20875051.508.1335895995630.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yndu27 on 5/1/12
11:13 AM:

....
I am not helping you as you actively snip, run, and lie about me.

Poor you.
--
🙈🙉🙊

There was nothing in your post (in which you snipped, ran, and lied about me) worth responding to. Same old bullshit. You run from the question because there is only one answer, and that answer contradicts everything you've said. Feel free to prove me wrong by giving a number.

cc stated in post
28567632.2025.1335897141251.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjj16 on 5/1/12
11:32 AM:
No comment from cc. Yeah, cc lied and was busted.
No comment from cc. Yeah, cc lied and was busted.
No comment from cc. Yeah, cc lied and was busted.
No comment from cc. Yeah, cc lied and was busted.
No comment from cc. Yeah, cc lied and was busted.
No comment from cc. Yeah, cc lied and was busted.
Poor cc: busted again and now all he can do is spew insults and accusations
as he runs from the topic. Wahhhh for cc. LOL!

Don't you ever get tired of showing off how you are completely lost?


--
"There's a mountain of evidence that I've committed forgeries." - cc

cc wrote:


Burson-Marstelar employee and loser cc adds to the losing streak
of Burson-Marstelar employees.

But still comes up with gem:
90%+ of all high street gadgets sold contain Linux.
Retailers are grateful for Linux.

Some retailers have gone further.
As some retailers have already found, if they drop the
brand names, their volumes are higher, with Linux inside,
the quality and margins together are higher.

Make more money than branded resellers who have to rob
the buyers of all their money with the hard sell and
like dummies thereafter hand all their hard earned
pennies to the brand owners. The buyers have less money
to spend in that shop and spend less overall. Not good
for retailers promoting brands and their low margins.

7 stated in post 3fZnr.42211$ev1....@fx13.am4 on 5/1/12 3:14 PM:
First, that is an out and out lie. I mean, really, an incredibly stupid
claim.

But even for the devices sold which have Linux, few have KDE or Gnome. You
really are just lost.

I bet you like cc. You are a lot like him.


--
🙈🙉🙊

On 5/1/2012 4:14 PM, 7 wrote:
[deletia]
Retailers aren't even aware of it.
But no cite of the actual numbers.

[deletia]

After swilling some grog, 7 belched this bit o' wisdom:
cc is the "carbon clown", according to OldGoat nee Greycloud.

I always picture DFS and cc as "rum and coke".

Anyway, too bad's cc's noting that UI improvements don't mean
squat marketwise will go right over Snit's head.
I'm grateful to cc for hinting that other (darker) factors are involved
in suppressing desktop Linux.

Almost as grateful as I was to Clogwog and "Hadron" for noting
that Microsoft weren't good enough coders to create a "git" before
Linus did.

Still have all the nattering bastards snipped, though.
Jeezuzz, what a drunken sot:

--
A chance for Liarnut and Peter to contribute perchance? I would love to
see Ahlstrom telling Linus that ptr->field is ok when ptr is NULL. (For
those that don't know, the Linux kernel is in C not C++).
But wait! What's this?
Huh? Security holes? Say it aint so!
Still, all the COLA freetards can pick up the reigns. Right guys? Erm
Guys??? Guys?!?!?!?!
<sound of echo as doors slam and freetards slink back to their basements
and torrent downloads>
-- "Hadron", a bona fide Usenet crank <h4s8e5$qps$1...@news.eternal-september.org>

Chris Ahlstrom stated in post jnq2qg$9nf$1...@dont-email.me on 5/1/12 6:32 PM:
The idea that the user experience does not influence user choice is absurd.

But, hey, push the idea all you want... it just proves me right about you
and your herd.

Oh, and predictable to see you siding with cc - he is as much of a liar as
you and your herd.
Yes, the boogieman. He keeps you *down*!
You act like people in COLA are against Linus Torvalds. Wait... some are:
you and your herd who claim people who agree with him are "Linux haters".

Yeah, your herd spews a lot of nonsense.
...



--
🙈🙉🙊

You surely cant be such a clueless fool that you honsetly believe UI
improvements dont improve a products marketability, never mind
usability. The clue is in what "UI" stands for. If you really believe
that then you're a bigger moron than I suspected : especially since you
claim to be a SW developer. And are one of those who claims Apple is all
style over substance while still making your income from Windows. YOu
need to grow up Creepy, you're not doing yourself any favours with such
ridiculous statements.

They improve "a product's marketability" in the general sense (as in, for most products), but certainly not Linux's. Unless you want to show me where all these new users are. And no one said improvements in the UI didn't result in improvements to usability. Unless you want to show me that quote. Why don't you back up your statements for once and show everyone the "improved marketability" that improvements to the UI has brought Linux? Or you can continue to pretend to know C and write "Creepy" every god damn post. Up to you.

I've posted many times my opinion on what is "suppressing" desktop Linux. I wouldn't consider them "darker" factors though. And that's assuming desktop Linux is being "suppressed" at all. What if 1% is the best a free and open operating system where everyone is free (and encouraged) to do whatever they want with it, even if it's detrimental, can do?

Hadron stated in post 88vhb5...@news.eternal-september.org on 5/1/12
10:42 PM:
Yeah, it takes a special kind of ignorance to think the users interface (how
people work) with the computer has nothing to do with how usable it is nor
with how many people will use a system.

Looked at broadly, the user experience is the *only* thing that matters, and
the UI is a big part of that.


--
🙈🙉🙊

cc stated in post
18960397.530.1335962058914.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbpw7 on 5/2/12
5:34 AM:
cc #1:
-----
-----

cc #2:
-----
-----

You really should stick to *one* coherent set of ideas, cc, and not just
argue against whatever is being said.
When you are shown the data, even when you select it, you whine and cry and
insist that others have picked the data in an "arbitrary" way and then
insist that unless they look back at data you have not provided then they
are wrong. You do this repeatedly. And you change your story with your
every post:
Clearly the usage percentage cannot be remaining the same *and* having a
significant downtrend. The two claims of yours *are* contradictory. You are
not coherent enough to offer a reasoned explanation for your obvious
contradiction. Ironically, in the same thread, I offered a reasoned
explanation as to how you backed yourself into this corner and offered you a
way to get out. You, however, prefer to be ignorant than educated, though...
which amuses me so I keep responding to you.




--
🙈🙉🙊

cc stated in post
4027456.10.1335962480571.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbjn8 on 5/2/12 5:41
AM:
Ans then you pretend those are the only reasons, even though you offer no
support or evidence or data... and you keep changing your story:
significant downtrend. The two claims of yours *are* contradictory. But
that does not bother you... your goal is just to troll and be contrary, not
to actually make a point.
Yeah, what if! After all, the boogieman is keeping it down!

--
🙈🙉🙊

You're the one arguing improvements, then claiming the interface is crappy. You posted the cartoon, not me. And improvements to shit can still result in shit, which is what you were referring to, I'm assuming.
I figured you would answer for your lover.
It was a joke, at your expense, based on cherry picking certain time periods.

So you can't show that UI improvements brought any "improved marketability"? Maybe you should remove Hadron from your anus and let him answer for himself, because you're just making him look stupid.

I've offered plenty of support. I don't pretend that those are the only reasons, or that those are the actual reasons. I just offer my opinion on something that is essentially unknowable and unprovable. I know UI improvements aren't bringing in new users. That's a fact.
I was making fun of you. You said "LOOK AT JANUARY LOLZ!" And if you look at January and then look at now, then there is a downward trend. But that's not the actual trend. You like the cherrypick time periods, and I was making fun or you for that. The actual trend is flat.
Why does it have to be a boogieman?

The ccretin is a bit unusual for a troll, in that he doesn't take the
wrong side of *every* issue. Still, he's an idiotic and dishonest
attacker, not worth debating.

--
"Unfortunately, the open source nature of Linux tends to attract the
type of persona who somehow believes that all avenues are one-way
streets set up to benefit him (and only him) as the true & deserving
holy center of the universe." - lying asshole "-hh"

cc stated in post
18025022.6.1335966606740.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbsn10 on 5/2/12
6:50 AM:

....
Funny how you did not even touch on your contradictions there. LOL! Run,
cc, run!

...
Ah, now your contradicting claims are "jokes". Well, yeah, your claims are
basically jokes all the time - but you are the one who misses the humor. In
this case, you repeatedly whined about me using "arbitrary" dates, even
though I used two sets of dates: the industry standard year-over-year and
In this example there is no easy "out" for you - your claims are simply
absurd. To attribute industry standard time comparisons and your own hand
picked time period to *me* picking arbitrary times to show some point I want
is just absurd beyond belief. There is no middle ground here - you have no
reasoned point and you are wrong. Period.

Also: You keep talking about your arbitrary "10 year" range and begging me
that arbitrarily selected range of his. Wahhhhh! LOL! For the record, you
repeatedly claim I dodged the question about the last 10 years when I gave a
clear and concise answer to your question. You are double-dipping into your
insanity and irrationality on this claim of yours.

...



--
🙈🙉🙊

They're not my contradictions you moron. I'm making fun of you! I used your own words! You're the one who said GNOME is developed by HCI experts. You're the one who said there are improvements in the UI. You're the one who posted a link to a cartoon and used it to make fun of how crappy the Linux UI is. You're the one with the contradictions. You're the idiot.
It always was, moron. You just don't get it. Again, you have no evidence for this supposed "improvement in marketability." So I think I'll wait for Hadron to provide the evidence, even though he never will since he's a faggot and a fraud.

cc stated in post
11495797.1707.1335966849374.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbcvn7 on 5/2/12
6:54 AM:
Ah, you have a "fact"... so where is your support? Where is your evidence?
Where is your data?

LOL!

Poor cc... so amazingly good at self-nuking.
I am not interested in your excuses where you blame me for your
self-contradictions. And that is what you are doing. Nor am I interested
in your false "quotes", which you spew below.

The fact is you contradicted yourself. Repeatedly. And you do it often
because you have no idea what you are talking about. Hey, which of the
above quotes of yours do you no longer believe to be true?
See: you keep babbling about *me* cherrypicking time period when the truth
is nothing of the sort. There were two time periods used:

1) The industry standard year-over-year data
2) Your cherry picked 24 month data you thought would prove me wrong
(and that back fired on you).

Again, what you keep running from:

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/LinuxTrendMar2012Snit-vs-cc.png>

Why not just admit the obvious: you were wrong. You are often wrong, of
course, and you rarely if ever admit to it. You just get mad and spit all
over yourself. And I have fun laughing at you.
I am not going to even guess who your boogieman is, no less why you need
one!

--
🙈🙉🙊

cc stated in post
28539286.556.1335967632510.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbph1 on 5/2/12
7:07 AM:
So which of your own comments are you saying you do not believe: #1 or #2,
above?
Those are your words. Not mine. You are, again, trying to attribute your
own words to me.
Quote. Link?
I have noted, and shown, the focus on improving the UI of KDE, Gnome, Unity,
Mint, etc.
So *quote* my contradictions. I mean, really, yours are *easy* to quote.
Very easy. Why can't you quote mine? Oh, you can, as you *MAKE UP
QUOTES*... in essence forge my identity (which is not to say you post as me,
but you claim your own words are mine).
So which is the joke: #1 or #2, above? What is the punch line?
I do get how lost you are and how you contradict yourself and then how you
blame me. And I laugh at you for your ignorance and your desperate
attempts.

...



--
🙈🙉🙊

Seriously?

https://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/66d4dec8e2fddfc2?dmode=source&output=gplain&noredirect

"UI / HCI Experts [2]"
"[2] Including, but not limited to:
KDE / Gnome developers: <http://osnews.com/story/2997>"

Excuse me for not including KDE developers in there as well.

On a side note, are you fucking retarded and can't remember something you posted hundreds of times?
https://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/deb14b926b3fabf7?dmode=source&output=gplain&noredirect

You show a cartoon of a crappy interface, then claim it's similar to desktop Linux, not 100%, but close. So we have you saying KDE and GNOME are developed by HCI experts, above you say there have been improvements, and yet you still think the Linux desktop UI is confusing. But how can that be if it's being developed by HCI experts? Maybe they're not experts, maybe there have been no improvements, maybe the UI is not a confusing pile of shit. You tell me, Mr. Contradiction.

Previously you said it was 97%, little fraud.
Which ones?

Other than a few computer stores, I've never seen a retailer print the
word 'Linux' on a sign. Ever.

In fact, 'Linux' is barely mentioned anywhere on the Android sites. And
the handset makers themselves don't mention Linux either.

So which retailer is showing their gratitude for Linux?
Doesn't surprise me you're a Linux "advocate" who positions himself in
the low price/low quality section of the marketing matrix.

Debating?

You've never "debated" a thing in your life here turd. The only thing
that you come close to understanding to a bog brush, a sheet of two ply
and a loud flushing noise.

btw:

Some Linux users get it:-

http://my.opera.com/Aux/blog/2008/09/13/canonical-wants-to-improve-linux-ui

Hey! They wanted to improve it in 2008. Whoopdee fucking do. So Linux was at 1% in 2008 when that post was made. Linux is at 1% now. So where is that "improved marketability" retard? Where are these new users?

cc stated in post
30860159.246.1335971024537.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbw7 on 5/2/12
8:03 AM:

....
You are confusing Gnome applications with Gnome guidelines, and you are
confusing the Gnome environment with a full Linux desktop system. Here, to
help you out: desktop distros are not restricted to using Gnome-only
software and OSS developers are not forced to follow the guidelines.

Does that help you to understand where you went so wrong with your claim? I
suspect not... or at least you will not admit to it.
As noted: you are not able to understand what you read.

Yes: there has been a focus on UI improvements on desktop Linux, but, no, it
has not caught up with the competition.

You just showed that this simple concept is so hard for you to understand
that you think it is a "contradiction". More example of you being
functionally illiterate.

With you, though, your contradictions are trivial to quote:
Again, clearly contradicting yourself. And, yes, I have read your
excuses... you did not really mean what you said, you were trying to mock
your misunderstanding of what you read. Your "defense" is that you are
functionally illiterate.

I enjoy watching you squirm and try to retcon your BS.

--
🙈🙉🙊

Hadron stated in post v4mx5qb...@news.eternal-september.org on 5/2/12
9:53 AM:
Absolutely. I think Unity has not worked well to do this, but I commend
them for trying.


--
🙈🙉🙊

You're a fucking moron.

cc: "You're the one who said GNOME is DEVELOPED by HCI experts."
Snit: "Quote. Link?"
Snit: "HCI Experts - KDE / Gnome DEVELOPERS"
(added emphasis mine)

There was nothing wrong with my claim other than the fact I didn't mention that you also said KDE developers are HCI experts. You asked for a quote of something you posted 100+ times. What the hell is wrong with you?

cc stated in post
25196131.381.1335978405899.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbcmf4 on 5/2/12
10:06 AM:
Do you think there has been no increase in the usability? Do you deny that
since that time Shuttleworth and others have made that a pretty strong
focus?

Come on, cc, I would love to hear your thoughts on this. LOL!

Oh, as far as your claims about Linux usage:
You cannot even stick to one story. And those comments of your were written
within days of each other, so if you want to use changing situations as an
excuse that will fail. Just figured I would give you a heads up. :)

Now do you want to claim, again, your hand-picked time frame for looking at
Linux usage was my fault and arbitrary? LOL! That is one of my favorite
excuses from you. Just exemplifies how dishonest and lost you are:

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/LinuxTrendMar2012Snit-vs-cc.png>

Come on, cc, tell me again how your hand picked set of data based on your
hand picked time, which ended up contradicting your claims anyway, was
somehow an example of *me* picking something in an unfair way. I love when
you use that excuse to try to explain why you were so wrong. It is very
amusing.


--
🙈🙉🙊

cc stated in post
69271.838.1335978872385.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynep10 on 5/2/12
10:14 AM:

...
Ah, I point out how you are:

1) Confusing Gnome applications with Gnome guidelines
2) Confusing the Gnome environment with a full Linux desktop system
3) Neglecting how desktop distros are not restricted to using
Gnome-only software
4) Neglecting how OSS developers are not forced to follow the guidelines

And your response is to call me names. You do not even deny I am right
(after all, I am right... as you have just proved... and do so again,
below).
Right: you got completely confused about the things I listed. I pointed it
out so you called me names. Got it. Why repeat your mistake again?
Your lack of ability to understand what you read is not my fault. Not sure
what else I can do to help you there.


--
🙈🙉🙊

So you're maintaining that the people who develop Gnome and KDE are not Gnome and KDE developers. Wow.

I asked where the new users are. Your hilarious misunderstanding of people making fun of you, and your attempt to change the subject above, are not answers.

cc stated in post
17719849.609.1335980534374.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynei5 on 5/2/12
10:42 AM:

...
Your above comment is a great example of you showing off how functionally
illiterate you are. Your comments in no way represent my views.

But let us get back to the point, I pointed out how you were:
And your response is to call me names and make up stories about my views.
You do not even deny I am right.

The concepts I have shared with you are not complex... but you are
completely lost. Oh well.

--
🙈🙉🙊

cc stated in post
25361985.383.1335980156859.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynmk20 on 5/2/12
10:35 AM:
You ran from the question.
I have shown you the stats showing an overall upward trend. This was done
using both my year-over-year numbers and numbers you hand selected (a 24
month period).

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/LinuxTrendMar2012Snit-vs-cc.png>

You ran from that, too. Oh well, it is not as if you have anything of value
to add: your ignorance of the topic is clear. I respond to you simply
because I find you amusing.

...

--
🙈🙉🙊

I claimed you said Gnome developers were HCI experts. I have a link (and hundreds more like it) where you say Gnome developers are HCI experts. You say I am wrong. Clearly, that is not the case. Spin all you want, but I have a direct quote from you (again, posted hundreds of times).

> > >https://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/66d4dec8e2...
Like you don't know... (he's overmedicated to all f*ck).

> >>>>http://my.opera.com/Aux/blog/2008/09/13/canonical-wants-to-improve-li...
He's lead you along to the point where you've diluted your original
arguments. Your initial context was a '10 year' period. If you don't
continually remind him that is the context he will present things the
way he is now... to appear like he has "won" the argument (which is
his only goal, he cares not about learning anything on the topic).
Further, you initially tied it to UI improvement... that I've seen,
Snit has shown no actual correlation to any uptrend involving UI
improvement.

cc stated in post
18982043.2972.1335981833754.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynee1 on 5/2/12
11:03 AM:
You have quoted where I have noted there are HCI experts among Gnome
developers, but that is not at all the same thing.

Thank you for admitting you do not understand the difference. Now you have
shown, in just the last week or so:
5) Shown you cannot understand the difference between Gnome developers
having HCI experts in their ranks vs. Gnome developers, in general,
being HCI experts.

6) How year-over-year data is an industry standard and not some "arbitrary"
comparison range I selected

7) How your own 24-month period, which you selected, is not some arbitrary
comparison range *I* selected.

Have you ever noticed the more you try to dig your way out of the holes you
dig for yourself you just bury yourself deeper. You cannot help but show
off how ignorant and lost you are.

By the way, you are also running from the following:

1) The evidence, based on the above mentioned data, of an upward trend in
desktop Linux usage:

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/LinuxTrendMar2012Snit-vs-cc.png>

2) Do you think there has been an improvement in the usability of desktop
Linux over the last year or the last 24 months (the time frame you picked).

3) Do you think there has been an improvement in the usability of desktop
Linux since 2008 (date based on a quote from Shuttleworth)?

4) Your own contradictions:
Will you please say which one of those two contradictory claims you are
disavowing?


--
🙈🙉🙊

> disavowing?🙉🙊

Notably, this discussion began in a thread created by Snit himself
entitled:

"Hands-on: GNOME 3.4 arrives, introducing significant design changes
Options"

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/ff15cef53d950651

In the context of that thread, the poster cc stated that "consistency"
alone would not bring users to Linux, he believes it has other
problems, as well. Very early in the thread, cc also wrote the
following and is seen asking a question based on his observation over
"years and years and years" of "improvement in the UI":

--
"Linux has held steady for years and years and years. So either there
has been no improvement in the UI or users could care less about the
UI and there are other more important issues.

I would certainly say that there have been some improvements in the
UI, so why hasn't that lead to more people using Linux?"
--

Also stated early in the thread by cc:

--
"This month last year Linux was attracting users at the same rate as
this year and at the same rate 10 years ago, all the while improving
the UI."
--

The obvious context here is "UI improvement" and why it hasn't
(according to cc) "lead to more people using Linux" as seen looking at
a 10 year period. While Snit made irrelevant arguments where many
horses were changed and red herrings were tossed, cc pointed out the
reality as he tried to stick to his original context:

--
"It's waxed and waned, but always hovered around 1%." - cc
--

For his part, Snit has put up a nice chart showing things that have
nothing to do with the original context (apparently, he actually
believed no one would notice), all the while unable to couple the
"uptrend" that is the basis of his new, 'changed horse' argument,
without actually tying UI improvement to this uptrend (I guess he
thought no one would notice that, either).

It sure looks like Snit just wants to be "right"... he cares not a
whit for context or... anything, really... so long as his "opponent"
is shown to be, in Snit's mind, "wrong".

On 5/2/2012 11:06 AM, cc wrote:
<snip>
The download sites just count the downloads and figure that there are
new linux users, when in fact once they find out how bad that distro is,
they toss it out.

> >>http://my.opera.com/Aux/blog/2008/09/13/canonical-wants-to-improve-li...
Good point.

Since I've never said anything of the sort, it was ignored.
So you're maintaining that there is an overall upward trend in Linux users, and that I am incorrect to say that Linux is at 1%? Interesting.

cc stated in post
11365790.1034.1335982048947.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynje14 on 5/2/12
11:07 AM:

...
The question for cc:
-----
-----
cc's answer:
-----

-----

Yeah, nothing. As is his norm, cc has run away again.
I am saying I have no reason to question this data:

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/LinuxTrendMar2012Snit-vs-cc.png>

Nor do you. You *want* it to be different, so you avoid it.

Oh well. It is not like you are anything but an ignorant fool just begging
for attention.
You made that up... but that is no longer interesting, it is just your norm.

--
🙈🙉🙊

After swilling some grog, Steve Carroll belched this bit o' wisdom:
No, not a good point.

Some, yes, will be disappointed in Linux, thinking they were getting
something that was somehow identical to Windows (weird, eh?).

Many Linux users will use multiple distros, skewing the "total number of
people using Linux".

But check out the numbers that, say, Fedora have counted: unique IP
addresses used to download Linux. Millions of people use Fedora.

--
High Priest: Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:
Bro. Maynard: And Saint Attila raised the Holy Hand Grenade up on high
saying, "Oh Lord, Bless us this Holy Hand Grenade, and with it
smash our enemies to tiny bits." And the Lord did grin, and the
people did feast upon the lambs, and stoats, and orangutans, and
breakfast cereals, and lima bean-
High Priest: Skip a bit, brother.
Bro. Maynard: And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take
out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less.
*Three* shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the
counting shall be three. *Four* shalt thou not count, and neither
count thou two, excepting that thou then goest on to three. Five is
RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached,
then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade towards thy foe, who, being
naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. Amen.
All: Amen.
-- Monty Python, "The Holy Hand Grenade"

So you see no problem with your methods that heavily weighted outliers in the statistics?
I have plenty. I said Linux has been at 1% for years and years and years, and your data and your methods do nothing to disprove that.
But you just said you have no reason to doubt your trend line. And you said you showed an upward trend, which you said was evidence of new users. So how can there be an upward trend and yet Linux is still at 1%? Your contradictions are piling up.

I noted where you said KDE/Gnome developers are HCI experts. You did not say "some" or "a few" or "many." You listed KDE/Gnome developers as being HCI experts. So if you did not mean all, then perhaps you should have corrected yourself in one of the hundred posts you made with that line in it.

Dummy, it is a good point. All these sites are doing is counting
downloads... it doesn't mean that every single download is used. They
are installed once and mostly just tossed out after the horrible discovery.

"OldGoat" <oa...@farmerbrowns.com> wrote in message
news:NMqdnTnrJrCgOjzS...@bresnan.com...
Download != A User

I've downloaded Fedora probably 4-6 times over the years. Most (but not all)
of the time I've installed it. And 100% of the time I've given up on it. A
download most certainly doesn't mean that it was installed and an install
most certainly doesn't mean that the person is using it.

That's the good thing about web-stats. It shows what people actually *use* -
not what they downloaded. And it also covers things like dual-boot, virtual
machines, etc.

Example - someone dual-boots between Win7 and Fedora. What OS do they use?
If they use one OS more than the other then this will reflect in the
web-stats. If they use both OSes equally then this will also reflect in the
web-stats. If they never boot one OS then the web-stats will show that too.

The nonsense of "Linux users often set the user-agent to Windows because
blah-blah-blah" is a bunch of bullshit. This may have made sense back in
2004 but it is extremely rare for anyone to have to do this anymore.

--
Another documented lie from "chrisv."

"Hell, I caught "Ezekiel" in about two dozen *lies* in the last month."
(Mon, 05 Mar 2012 - chrisv turd)
Message-ID: <u1h9l79c78pqshuo1...@4ax.com>

Indeed. It's utter BS.
And I see a wintroll was trotting out the old discredited "Linux at 1%"
bullshit.

--
Klingon Prime Directive: Shoot it!

I think we blew it!
-- Robert E. Lee after Gettysburg.--

cc stated in post
28446821.3283.1335993375796.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynee1 on 5/2/12
2:16 PM:
Your bad faith has killed any chance of having a reasoned discussion (not
that this was not known, but I am being very clear below with examples of
your bad faith / dishonesty / such utterly absurd ignorance that there
cannot be a conversation on the topic until you face who you are and what
you have said:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

1) The question for cc:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

2) <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/LinuxTrendMar2012Snit-vs-cc.png>

You have nothing but idiotic excuses about "hand-picked" data ranges even
though *you* picked one and the other is an industry standard.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

3) In the midst of the conversation you have shown you are:
A) Confusing Gnome applications with Gnome guidelines
B) Confusing the Gnome environment with a full Linux
desktop system
C) Neglecting how desktop distros are not restricted
to using Gnome-only software
D) Neglecting how OSS developers are not forced to
follow the guidelines
E) Shown you cannot understand the difference between
----------------------------------------------------------------------

4) You repeatedly contradict yourself
You will not say which of your contradictory claims you no longer believe
in. When asked you run or make up stories about how your BS claims were
merely an attempt at humor.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

5) You repeatedly make up claims and attribute them to me:

cc:
-----
in Linux users, and that I am incorrect to say that Linux is
at 1%? Interesting.
-----

I made no such claim. You made it up.

-----
-----

I never said Gnome developers, in general, we HCI experts. You made that
up.

-----
-----

I also made no such general claim about KDE developers. You made that up,
too.

-----
You said "LOOK AT JANUARY LOLZ!" And if you look at January
and then look at now, then there is a downward trend.
-----

Here you present not just an idea but a quote you falsely attribute to me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

You are contradicting yourself and making up stories about me contradicting
myself, even though you cannot find quotes of my doing so. You are
obsessing over some arbitrary 10 year period of time even though I have made
it clear I have no knowledge or data for that range. Until you stop running
from the facts of your ignorance, though, there is no point going forward.
No questions of yours will be answered until you actually at least show some
good faith and try to give reasoned responses to the above.


--
🙈🙉🙊

cc stated in post
22045775.31.1335993620305.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynbp1 on 5/2/12
2:20 PM:
I have, many many times, noted that the guidelines are often not followed
*and* noted that desktop Linux systems are not limited to just one of those
two UIs (nor even a combination of just the two of them). Again: repeatedly
this has been talked about. You are dishonestly pretending otherwise or,
again, proving you are functionally illiterate.


--
🙈🙉🙊

Linux isn't even close to Windows in terms of quality.
Not even on the same planet.
Why do they need to use multiple distros?
Isn't there one "best" Linux?
If not, what is wrong with the others?
Wrong.

Downloads != users.

If it did, Microsoft would be out of business by now.

A good majority of those downloads end up getting removed from the
user system when the user discovers how much Linux sucks.

OldGoat stated in post 9oCdnUOgF5bdGjzS...@bresnan.com on
5/2/12 12:13 PM:
Often true... it is tried and found to not fit the needs as well as the
competition.


--
🙈🙉🙊

Ezekiel stated in post jns9vs$kj9$1...@dont-email.me on 5/2/12 2:46 PM:
Exactly correct. Even when it does... which download? If you download 5
distros and decide to actually use one, do you get counted as 5 users?
I download multiple distros a year and tinker with them in a VM. None have
been good enough to make me want to switch... not even close.
Right: it shows, approximately, *usage* and not a count of desktops or
whatever.
Exactly correct... and keep in mind how Linux users are likely to be more of
techies and use their computers more... so the web stats likely
over-represent their usage in terms of number of *people*, since it measures
usage, not people.
It makes no sense. And for folks like those in the herd, the idea of making
their Windows systems look like Linux systems is far more likely. After
all, they have a religion to promote. There is no comparable cult-like
leader as Stallman in the Windows or Mac world.


--
🙈🙉🙊

OldGoat stated in post NMqdnTnrJrCgOjzS...@bresnan.com on
5/2/12 2:29 PM:
He is, again, assuming downloads = usage. No evidence, of course.

Web stats measure usage, or at least a close proximity to it.


--
🙈🙉🙊

Are you as stupid as you sound?


You really believe that nonsense?


Jesus.

On May 2, 3:07 pm, Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@xzoozy.com> wrote:

(snip)
That I've heard, a lot of sites do what he said. That some people find
it "bad" (not as good as they expected, unusable or whatever) is to be
expected (even you agree below).
Not weird at all, we (you and I) talked about this comparison aspect
the other day.
This makes things even more difficult.
I don't know if there is a way to get an accurate count of desktop
Linux users... which is something I'd like to see.

What I mean by "weird" is that people check out Linux for whatever
reasons they have, and for some it is because they are dissatisfied with
Windows. But then they're dissatisfied with Linux because it is not
like Windows.
My own belief is that it ranges from about 1% to about 5%, depending
where you live. In a market not dominated by the 800-pound M$ gorilla,
there's no reason why Linux can't be at 10% to 20% on desktops.

But, really, 1% is not bad, not bad at all. And Linux is *much* more
popular in its server and embedded forms. My Palm Pixi phone and
DirectTV receivers both come with GPL licenses. ;->

--
Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can’t
lose.
-- Bill Gates

Could be... but from what i've read it's mainly people who are
predisposed to a bit of geeky-ness who try it, at least, on the
desktop.
I agree... but I would point out that the configurability of Linux is
also a liability when trying to sell it to the average desktop user. I
think people in computer newsgroups tend to forget how *extremely*
basic the average user actually is.
Tens of millions of people are using it, that's a success story in my
book.

Chris Ahlstrom stated in post jnsm0b$j5m$3...@dont-email.me on 5/2/12 6:11 PM:
Because, for whatever reason, they do not see it serving them as well.
There are many reasons for this to happen. The idea that it is different is
not a huge one - if it were, OS X would not do so well (remember, the
average Mac costs about 2x what the average PC costs... where Linux can be
had for free).
There is a reason: it does not serve people as well. Even being free,
people do not want it (in general).
Oh, Linux does very, very well in places where the Linux based devices have
earned it. Servers and embedded devices are great examples of that. And
the same boogieman is there as is on the desktop... the boogieman excuse
simply fails as a reasonable excuse.

--
🙈🙉🙊

And most of these people that do use linux are dual booting with Windows.
A lot of reports on the net still show linux at around 1%.

Only in your demented and diseased mind.
The rest of the world reports it at around 1%.
Deal with it.

Linux as a desktop is somewhat of a dissapointment... watch what happens
say if OpenSUSE left out the development software.
The geeks wouldn't use it.