Last edited Wed Jan 28, 2015, 03:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Another Ukrainian defeat of these proportions would be pretty bad news for those who support our proxy war there. If Ukraine's army can't even win against the Separatist militias, who would be willing to bet they could handle genuine Russian troops. It really puts the whole anti-Putin "March on Moscow" idea in doubt, doesn't it?

Not sure why you insist on spreading RT putin propaganda on this board.

"Separatist Militia"= Russian army. That is all.

I'm equally puzzled about why some people reply to serious OPs with nothing but comic book illustrations and gag photos?

The only thing "serious" about your posts are how seriously fucked up russia and putin are.
Spam the board all you want with your putin shit, but expect nothing but gags and comic illustrations as they are all the russian leaders could ever comprehend. Now, take your phony socialist-communist illusion back to the oligarchy that is putin's russia.

President Putin is your over-powering obsession, not mine.

Do have fun, though, and try not to be too disruptive. Adults still would like to talk.

Those 'Pootie-lover' pics get funnier by the day.

Makes you want to have his babies, don't it? [URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL] I was supposed to be having Hussein's babies, but all these years later .......... nothing.

But Ukraine's brutal coup was cooked up and sponsored by the west, those 'rebels' (Ulrainian citizens in the east fighting for their own reasons) also have nothing to do with Pootie, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove on these threads.

Hoping for war against Russia, the sanctions, the ramping up of the hatred towards a whole people, just as was done for Iraq, Libya, Venezuela and any country in the world deemed a suitable target will hurt ALL Russians, including those LGTB, children, ordinary Russians just trying to survive in a country with a target on its back using the same tactics that persuaded millions that bombing them was good for the whole world. I hate warmongering and those who do it. But you keep on defending the MIC, weapons manufactureres, right-wing oligarchs pushing for austerity for Ukrainians already suffering. Greece and Iceland have so far showed they're not going to take it any more. Those fighting in the east have that same right. It's kind of disgusting how that's tried to be so ignored - human beings fighting for their right not to live under brutal austerity. No-one thinks Putin is a good guy, but blaming 'Pootie-lovers' for even wanting to talk about this is disingenuous. It's obvious you don't care a bit about the already horrific loss of lives or any of those people fighting for their own rights.

You seem to though ........... a lot. You must love Putin.

I guess the choices are war or war.

There is a another option, peace. What happened in Ukraine was a coup, the coup government is now waging war on it's own people. The very excuse used to get rid of the previous government, only now with artillery.

They are using forces infested with "right sector" activists who make tea party members look like liberals. I'm guessing since your "new" around here you're probably unfamiliar with the peace activists on the board and the idea that war is the last thing we should be supporting.

Especially the neo-nazi part of the government?

Btw, using the plight of people who are oppressed for one's own political agenda, is a pretty despicable thing to do and especially when it is apparent that concern for those people is not evident. IF you cared about Gays at all, you would not be supporting the Kiev government.

But carry on, it's essential that people learn about this issue and you have provided an excellent opportunity for DUers to see who and what kind of people are pushing for War in Ukraine.

So that makes your man putin's position OK??


Strange line of thought.

garbage from the old Bush supporters yet) someone who is trying to conduct a civil discussion here?

Could you provide something to counter the information in the OP? That would be helpful.

There are reports of this all over the world, so if you have something different, that would contribute a lot to helping people be more informed.

You have to understand something, we are familiar with war propagandists who are all over the Social Media. They don't discuss, they post the kind of things you posted, they block anyone who questions them, naturally not wanting to interrupt what is their job. Here we don't have that kind of thing. All that has done is to make people even more suspicious of what is actually going on in that part of the world, because that kind of 'discourse' only raises more questions.

DU is a discussion forum. Respect for other posters who have genuine questions, keeps this above the level I described above.

Personally calling Americans 'Russia Supporters' shows a level of desperation, as we saw when Bush Supporters called Americans 'Saddam lovers'. They did that because they were WRONG and the 'LEFT WAS RIGHT'. So unable to argue with facts, they resorted to that childish nonsense.

The DUer you responded to loves this country, which is the US.

For you to imply otherwise requires you to provide evidence that you are not just engaging in name-calling of Liberals here where they are supposed to be free of that now old, insanity coming from the Right.

If not, you owe the poster an apology. It is an egregious thing to accuse an American citizen of being a traitor. So, what prompted YOU to do so?

Oh wait, were you trying to say that your posts are meant to be taken seriously? It's apparent to most people that all you do is post RT stories, taken directly and unquestioningly with virtually nothing added as to why we're supposed to take a propaganda organization seriously.

People are giving RT the credence it deserves, that is to say none. It's a joke to those who aren't fans of Putin (if I'm being charitable, hate the U.S. enough that they will ignore Putin's flaws) because nothing in it is critical of Putin or of Russia. It's no better a source on Russia than Fox News is on Obama.

I suggest you inform yourself on the divide where even the official languages are a controversial issue.

The first is to forge a pluricultural Ukraine in which minority communities are given equal rights within the framework of Ukrainian political identity. This is actually Russia’s and the Russophone community’s preferred solution.

The second is to forge a culturally homogeneous Ukraine in which minorities are assigned a subordinate status and are politically powerless to change it.

The pluricultural option has been rejected by president Poroshenko and by the majority of the newly elected Ukrainian parliament. But, due to the events of this year, the monocultural option has gained a new lease on life.

The reasons are obvious. There are now six million fewer Russophone Ukrainians under Ukrainian government control. This is a 28 percent reduction of the Russophone population of Ukraine (not counting refugees).

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-real-war-ukraine-the-battle-over-ukrainian-identity-11782?page=2

So if you believe the people treated like second hand citizens and a lot of other politicized issues that existed long before RT are just Russian Army then you bought into propaganda from somewhere a long time ago.

suggesting the US go to war with Russia? What IS your point, silly pictures are for children, this is a serious matter.

http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-276957eee98162eac9c96b391bd62204?convert_to_webp=true



http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1601895!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/gaybash5n-1-web.jpg



Silly pictures???? Really??? This is what you stand with. Despite your cries to the contrary , you and yours own this.

working in their related occupations know exactly what will happen to their livelihoods under the thumb of the IMF and it's overlords.

wars.

that the neocons are trying to get this country into a war with Russia. Let's hope not. The EU can resolve this issue with Russia without our assistance.

Still, the American people remember the last tragic war they dragged us into. We have over 6,000 dead soldiers and hundreds of thousands of permanently, physically and emotionally, damaged veterans to show for that travesty.

With War Monger McCain interfering over there, we do need to keep an eye on what the neocons are up to.

Certainly not off to a good start.

And to isobar. What else does your TV tell you to believe?





ALMOST , yes, ALMOST as good as Fox Noise.

Carry on, comrade! Hail the putin dog!

The cartoon says:

Mainstream newspapers and TV would never lie to us.

Nothing about RT or Putin.




threads with important information on a real issue. Gotcha.

This crap has no place on this board, and mocking ridicule is all it deserves.

are, but you need to do a bit of reading. I don't imagine staring at the MSM all day makes for very much learning.


Thanks to Scuba


Ukraine: An Analysis

By David McReynolds

March 9, 2014

Russia has no natural barrier – no river, no mountain range – to guard it on its Western border. It has suffered invasion from the West three times in recent memory – under Napoleon and then twice under the Germans. In the last invasion, under Hitler, between 25 and 27 million Soviet citizens lost their lives. All the factories, dams, railroads. towns and cities West of a line from Leningrad in the North to Moscow to Stalingrad in the South were destroyed. Americans make much of 9.11 (and I don’t make light of it) but for Russia it was not just a handful of buildings in one city which were destroyed – it was entire cities, leveled. And then with the wounded to care for, the orphans, the widows.

Americans have never understood what the war meant to Russia and why, after the war, the Soviets sought to build a “protective band” of territory between itself and Germany. This was Eastern Europe, which under the iron boot of Stalin became “people’s democracies” or “presently existing socialism”.


Something Americans (perhaps including our President and the Secretary of State) have forgotten was that Russia wanted to make a deal with the West. It had made peace with Finland, which (again, memories are short and we have forgotten this) fought on the side of the Nazis. The Soviets withdrew from Austria after the West agreed that Austria, like Finland, would be neutral.The Soviets very much wanted a Germany united, disarmed, and neutral. Stalin did not integrate the East Germany into the Eastern European economic plans for some time, hoping he could strike that deal. But the West wanted West Germany as part of NATO, and so the division of Germany lasted until Gorbachev came to power.

I would have urged radical actions by the West in 1956 when the Hungarian Revolution broke out – it was obvious that if the Soviets could not rule Eastern Europe without sending in tanks (as they had already had to do in East Germany in 1953), they posed no real threat of a military strike at the West.

What if we had said to Moscow, withdraw your tanks from Hungary, and we will dissolve NATO, while you dissolve the Warsaw Pact.

But of course the West didn’t do that. The US in particular (but I would not exempt the Europeans from a share of the blame) wanted to edge their military bases to the East. When the USSR gave up control of Eastern Europe, the US pressed for pushing NATO farther East, into Poland and up to the borders of Ukraine.


http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/ukraine-an-analysis/


....."When President Gorbachev accepted the unification of Germany as part of NATO—an astonishing concession in the light of history—there was a quid pro quo. Washington agreed that NATO would not move “one inch eastward,” referring to East Germany.

The promise was immediately broken, and when Gorbachev complained, he was instructed that it was only a verbal promise, so without force.

President Clinton proceeded to expand NATO much farther to the east, to Russia's borders. Today there are calls to extend NATO even to Ukraine, deep into the historic Russian “neighborhood.” But it “doesn't involve” the Russians, because its responsibility to “uphold peace and stability” requires that American red lines are at Russia's borders."

http://www.alternet.org/putins-takeover-crimea-scares-us-leaders-because-it-challenges-americas-global-dominance?page=0%2C1&akid=11793.44541.Ck7lmV&rd=1&src=newsletter990910&t=3


Excerpts: In February of this year, US State Department officials, undiplomatically, joined anti-government protesters in the capital city of Kiev, handing out encouragement and food, from which emanated the infamous leaked audio tape between the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, and the State Department’s Victoria Nuland, former US ambassador to NATO and former State Department spokesperson for Hillary Clinton. Their conversation dealt with who should be running the new Ukraine government after the government of Viktor Yanukovich was overthrown; their most favored for this position being one Arseniy Yatsenuk.

My dear, and recently departed, Washington friend, John Judge, liked to say that if you want to call him a “conspiracy theorist” you have to call others “coincidence theorists”. Thus it was by the most remarkable of coincidences that Arseniy Yatsenuk did indeed become the new prime minister. He could very soon be found in private meetings and public press conferences with the president of the United States and the Secretary-General of NATO, as well as meeting with the soon-to-be new owners of Ukraine, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, preparing to impose their standard financial shock therapy. The current protestors in Ukraine don’t need PHDs in economics to know what this portends. They know about the impoverishment of Greece, Spain, et al. They also despise the new regime for its overthrow of their democratically-elected government, whatever its shortcomings. But the American media obscures these motivations by almost always referring to them simply as “pro-Russian”.

An exception, albeit rather unemphasized, was the April 17 Washington Post which reported from Donetsk that many of the eastern Ukrainians whom the author interviewed said the unrest in their region was driven by fear of “economic hardship” and the IMF austerity plan that will make their lives even harder: “At a most dangerous and delicate time, just as it battles Moscow for hearts and minds across the east, the pro-Western government is set to initiate a shock therapy of economic measures to meet the demands of an emergency bailout from the International Monetary Fund.”

Arseniy Yatsenuk, it should be noted, has something called the Arseniy Yatsenuk Foundation. If you go to the foundation’s website you will see the logos of the foundation’s “partners”. Among these partners we find NATO, the National Endowment for Democracy, the US State Department, Chatham House (Royal Institute of International Affairs in the UK), the German Marshall Fund (a think tank founded by the German government in honor of the US Marshall Plan), as well as a couple of international banks. Is any comment needed?

http://williamblum.org/aer/read/128


He could very soon be found in private meetings and public press conferences with the president of the United States and the Secretary-General of NATO, as well as meeting with the soon-to-be new owners of Ukraine, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, preparing to impose their standard financial shock therapy. The current protestors in Ukraine don’t need PHDs in economics to know what this portends. They know about the impoverishment of Greece, Spain, et al. They also despise the new regime for its overthrow of their democratically-elected government, whatever its shortcomings.


Thanks to Octafish.

You should be proud. I fine bunch of ass-hats that you choose to align yourself with.

Awwwwww .......

the murder and beating of LGBT folks in his own country. But you are just fine with that, now aren't you?




I stand by my posts. You stand with putin and his bigotry.

now all over the ME and Northern Africa were LGBT? Any idea? Did anyone take a body count? Oh, I forgot ........... 'we don't do body counts'. But as a result of this invasion gays are being tortured and slaughtered now all over the region. Yet not a peep from you about them.

I haven't seen a single soul here describe Russia's anti-gay laws as anything but despicable, so I'm really not sure what you're trying to prove.

You stand with Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Yoo, the whole gang, right?

Bush Calls For Ban on Same Sex Marriage



So Bush wasn't anti-Gay rights according to you?

How sad, that anyone would even try to defend Republicans on this most important issue. Bush's ban on Gay Rights helped give haters the idea that brutality towards Gays was just fine.

Disgusting post!

who want no part in neocon wars, much like President Obama, are 'traitors'?

To whom should they owe their allegiance? President Obama or the cabal of neocons who lied the country into war in Iraq and their far right supporters in several countries?

instead? Am I getting that right?

Surely if you think something is a 'pile of shit' you must have something to demonstrate it. Attacking DUers with the same old neocon tripe, isn't making your case for you at all.

So let me help. Accordiing to reports in the WAPO and NYT and the WSJ over the past couple of weeks, Ukrainian troops are involved in fierce fighting with the rebels in Eastern Ukr. Even their reports state the citizens of Donensk eg, formerly loyal to Kiev, now support the rebels who 'are just trying to keep the frontline' out of their city.

The question is, why did Poroshenko send the UKR military to attack his own people?

Is he trying to push a war with Russia on behalf of his neocon friends? THAT is what the American people need to know.

It is tragic to see this happening in Europe, with so amny dead now, when it was so unnecessary. For anyone to make fun of what is going on there is simply sickening.

The shit pile that is RT is unworthy of anything but a mocking and ridiculing response, as are those who post such blatant propaganda. Again, go play with your putin dog. You are unworthy of any thing else.

This is russia, this is the face of putin. this is what russia wishes to spread around the region:

from that despicable personal attack, doesn't change that fact.

I always have considered the source when that tactic has been used against Democrats in the past, and will do so now.

The push for war is ominous.

We've seen it all before.

Again, thanks for kicking this thread and for demonstrating how those supporting this war have absolutely nothing to offer to explain that support.

I have called no one a traitor. You are just making shit up!!

Just like your buddy putin.

Here's a good rule of thumb: if you state something online that would get your skull repeatedly slammed into a wall in real life, you should consider not saying it. Otherwise, you're just fronting as Big Internet Man. Say anything you'd like about Putin, but please don't personally attack other members of the site.

Only a very violent person would even say such a thing. You should re-read this thread. It is clear I have attacked no one.

already called another DUer a 'traitor' to their country. The old 'commie' routine. You apparently see something only you, so far, can see. But you have provided nothing of substance.

However, you do get credit for kicking this thread. That is always a good thing when a serious issue for the US might otherwise sink to oblivion.

More Putin "fun" for you:



&height=330&width=540&crop=false



Your support for the russian government is noted.

being a Putin lover (Saddam lover) = American Patriot to you.

But so far you have contributed nothing else other than, as I said, to keep this thread kicked.

Your Putin scarey crap to detract from the REAL issue, the rights of ALL Ukrainians and the brutal measures used to try to beat down/burn alive/murder those in the east who were denied a chance to vote for or against austerity they DID AND DO NOT WANT, by neo-nazis, fascists and a brutal coup-sponsored gov't is sickening.

This is not imaginary, this IS Russia.

Maybe you need to study a map.

Here, I'll help.

The claim that is full of far more propaganda is Hillary Clinton claiming she is losing the information war. How? With so many Western allies & media how could anybody be losing the information war? If Russia claimed that, who would they say it too? More likely Russia is losing it bad, especially considering the lack of information there is regarding the divide in Ukraine.

afterwards. Turned out she was right. 'Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran' McCain was there too.

What the American need to know is why the US should have any interests or spend any money, which we have apparently, on this which is an issue for the EU and Russia?

Don't we have enough wars going on right now, costing lives and money this country cannot afford?

the evidence is indisputable. Very embarrassing for her and her neocon friends, to be sure. It's one thing to plot a coup in a foreign land, it's another to be caught on tape doing so.

Now why would McCain and Nuland want to get this country involved in what is the business of the EU and Russia?

Maybe for the same reasons they and their neocon friends got us involved in Iraq??

Isn't her husband one of the signers of the PNAC?

Yes, yes it appears he was.

And she, Nuland, was National Security adviser to Cheney from 2003 to 2005. Just long enough to get THAT criminal war off the ground.

A neocon to the marrow of her bones.

Now why would anyone here want to protect Cheney's buddy?

Nuland Denies She Wants to "Shut Down" RT!!!!

thanks for posting

And you believe a word out of the mouth of the Cheney war criminals and their cohorts, like Nuland and her PNAC signing husband?

Is this still the DU who exposed these criminals back in the old Bush days? Are we now defending these war criminals?

Are you aware that President Obama has tried desperately to avoid the wars these unindicted War Criminals, Nuland, et al, are pushing on him?

They call him 'weak' on National Security because he does not WANT a war with Russia, who btw, is working WITH THE PRESIDENT to try to find a peaceful solution with IRAN, another WAR the neocons, NULAND, are trying to start, with the help of Netanyahu and is cabal of Obama haters?

Are you seriously supporting those who are trying to push President Obama into a corner, who call him 'weak' on FP, who plot, see the latest scheme by Bibi, behind his back to try to rouse up our Congress AGAINST HIM to start a war in Russia and Iran?

What happened to DU? We used to be GOOD at this!! Exposing the plots, the lies, the neocons. NOW you are supporting them? Against the efforts of our President? WOW!

The rebels know the terrain a lot better than the Kiev conscripts. When 60 or so artillery rebels without transport equipment can hump heavy artillery over a mountain ridge, surround Kiev forces and rain down fire upon them, then the end is nigh.

This pattern has repeated itself a few times now with the encirclements. Kiev has to call Moscow on the hot line to arrange corridors to be established for evacuation or Kiev soldiers would be totally slaughtered.

The rebels are highly motivated, most fight for nothing but their land. They are not paid mercenaries like the Kiev forces. IMO this encircling pattern will continue on through Odessa and eventually Kiev itself if a peace arrangement is not made soon. The Kiev regime is in the balance and now, a peace agreement is all they can count on. Kiev cannot militarily win the war and have everything to lose now.

Is that what you're doing?

Sid

'Saddam lovers' turned out to be right. Iraq had no WMDs and had zero to do with 9/11.

The neocons need new material, it wasn't even good the first time.

Supporters of war mongering John McCain seem to be stymied again, with no actual material to attack Liberals with.

What I would like to know is why any of what is going on over there, has to do with us. I sure hope there is no plan to USE America's troops in yet another part of the world. That is the EU's and Russia's problem.

Here in the US we need to continue to develop alternative energies, which IS happening, so we don't need to be dragged into any more Neocon for-profit wars.

I have no doubt whatsoever those who orchestrated it and posed for pictures with the fascists in the first place will escalate this.

stir up war fever. Thankfully I have also noticed they are not getting too much support. And, as with Iraq, they have nothing to respond with other than 'you're a pootie love' or to block those who ask for something other than their prepared propaganda. So far they have probably blocked thousands of people.

In a way that gives me hope. That the world has learned, after the horrendous disaster in Iraq and our Intel Committees in congress telling us we are in far more danger now, than before that disastrous invasion, it will be far more difficult for them to scare the country into allowing our troops to be used for profit again.

I really wish the war criminals had been prosecuted. It was inevitable that not doing so, was a threat to this and other nations.

Are you against them also? IOKWPDI It's OK when Putin does it lol

attacks from the right, but here on DU, it is now becoming common among a few who don't seem to want to discuss any facts about this most tragic war that is going on in Europe where people are dying now in huge numbers.

I'm sorry that the loss of life is not your main concern, brings back memories of the total lack of concern for the lives in Iraq though.

RIP to all those who are dying in yet another neocon backed war for profit!

Men, women and children are the pawns always, of the warmongers.

And as with Iraq, they don't matter at all to those with an agenda.

We haven't learned a thing, it seems.

So, you're supposedly against warmongers. Does that include Putin? Simple question.

Putin is not a war monger. However, WE have many who are. They can't wait for the next war. Doesn't make any difference where....we just NEED a war. A war is such good camouflage for our economic situation.
Goodness, just think how a war might be the best economic stimulus so far.

As much as I understand your position on LGBT rights in Russia....don't get side tracked. A world war effects us all. eom

zeal to start a war with Syria. Wouldn't be surprised if he was working with this administration to do so.

He is currently helping the President in his efforts to resolve the Iran Nuke issue, peacefully. Another reason for the neocons to hate him.

Russia is one of the five nations trying to ward off the Neocons attempt to get the US into war with Iran.

The UK, Germany, France, China and Russia!

Then we had the Netanyahu/Neocon attempt to undermine the President's policies to avoid their wars.

Iran/Ukraine/Syria! The neocon drream which this President is foiling, with the help of Russia.

It's all connected. Iran is the PRIZE for the PNAC signers, and Obama and Russia are stopping them.

Nuland was Cheney's NS adviser. McCain, well, what can we say about 'bomb, bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran neocon McCain??

So they went to Ukr to help the coup. Putting Obama in a bad position regarding his efforts for peace.

And we have people here actually supporting THEM over the President!!

seemingly want to take.

And as long as they have a bogeyman to blame it all on, they sleep well at night. Little children cold and hungry, orphaned, human beings burnt alive .......... it's all good. Because .......... Pootie!!!! (Hussein, Gaddafi, Chavez .... substitute any of the previous bogeymen you like - there are many more to choose from).

Did you also admire Gaddafi?

nations were ruined by warmongers. Get it? Like being called a 'Pootie lover' - it's what those of you who are trying so desperately to ignore and derail from the suffering and horror in eastern Ukraine and those Ukrainian citizens fighting for their lives and futures use to distract with. Pathetic, isn't it?

who used Libya's resources for his own people, and all of Africa.

Here - just for you:

The Untold Story in Libya

What you dont know about the libyan crisis:

...

In May 2010, Libya was voted on to the UN Human Rights Council by a huge majority. The UN Watch's campaign to remove Libya from the Human Rights Council began immediately.

In March, 2011, a report, containing positive quotes from UN diplomatic delegations in many countries, was due to be presented by the UN Human Rights Council, leading to a Resolution commending Libya's progress in a wide aspect of human rights (listed in the article). March 19, 2011, the attack on Libya began.

Libya was one of only five countries without a Rothschild model central bank, Quaddafi openly discussed, in 2009, the nationalization of US, UK, Germany, Spain, Norway, Canada and Italy's oil companies, switching to the gold dinar - a single African currency that would serve as an alternative to the U.S. dollar and allow African nations to share the wealth. Libya has an abundance of water - Gaddafi’s Great Man-Made River Project project offers limitless amounts of water for Libyans and would allow them to be totally self-sufficient. In the near-future, water will be the next resource equated with money and power, other countries may be dependent on its reserves. A self-sufficient, dictator-ruled nation with control over some of the world’s most precious resource waves a big red warning flag.

In 2010 Gaddafi made a motion to the UN General Assembly to investigate the circumstances of the invasion of Iraq. He was also wasting the west's ....... 'libya's' oil on free education, housing, tolerance of immigrants, raising the standard of living in Africa, lowering infant mortality while raising life expectancy.

Many of these things are completely similar to what we learned of Iraq.

*************************************************************************************************

Yes, simply put, Nato's member nations are trying to steer back Libya Central Bank into the mainstream financial structure, under the watching eyes of the World Bank and the International Monetary Funds, to provide (reconstruction) funds to Libya with hefty interests payments - and transform a country which was free of debts into a heavily indebted country - as done everywhere else in sub-Saharan African countries.

http://businessafrica.net/africabiz/graphs...
http://businessafrica.net/africabiz/arcvol...

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From a 'no fly zone to all out bombing of targets called out by rebels'. NATO's high-precision bombing preceeded 'rebel' incursions.

http://antemedius.com/content/libya-r2p-no...

"It's now common knowledge that British SAS, French intelligence, US Central Intelligence Agency assets, Qatar special forces and mercenaries of all stripes were parachuted as boots on the ground for months, planning and training the "rebels" and in close coordination with that philanthropic prodigy, NATO.

That was never the UN mandate - but who cares? NATO/GCC paid the bills, NATO conducted the bombing and NATO/GCC will "stabilize" the mess, according to a 70-page plan leaked by the British to Rupert Murdoch'sz Times of London."

"Expect local - and global - fireworks as far as grabbing the loot is concerned. Without even considering the (still unexplored) oil and gas wealth, Libya's foreign assets are worth at least $150 billion. Libya's central bank, now about to be privatized, has no less than 143.8 tons of gold. Then there's at least a millennium supply of fresh water, which had started to be harnessed by Gaddafi via the spectacular, multibillion dollar Great Man-Made River (GMR) project."

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"Oil-rich but with a relatively small population of 6.6. million, Gadhafi's Libya welcomed hundreds of thousands of black Africans looking for work in recent decades. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/01/l...

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NATO’s War on Libya is an Attack on African Development–Dan Glazebrook

6 09 2011

http://globalciviliansforpeace.com/tag/afr... /

To prevent this ‘threat of African development’, the Europeans and the USA have responded in the only way they know how – militarily. Four years ago, the US set up a new “command and control centre” for the military subjugation of the Africa, called AFRICOM. The problem for the US was that no African country wanted to host them; indeed, until very recently, Africa was unique in being the only continent in the world without a US military base. And this fact is in no small part, thanks to the efforts of the Libyan government.
Before Gaddafi’s revolution deposed the British-backed King Idris in 1969, Libya had hosted one of the world’s biggest US airbases, the Wheelus Air Base; but within a year of the revolution, it had been closed down and all foreign military personnel expelled.
More recently, Gaddafi had been actively working to scupper AFRICOM. African governments that were offered money by the US to host a base were typically offered double by Gaddafi to refuse it, and in 2008 this ad-hoc opposition crystallised into a formal rejection of AFRICOM by the African Union.

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The force used by the occupier to displace the old regime always makes sure the new regime is supine and complaint. The National Transitional Council, made up of former Gadhafi loyalists, Islamists and tribal leaders, many of whom detest each other, will be the West’s vehicle for the reconfiguration of Libya. Libya will return to being the colony it was before Gadhafi and the other young officers in 1969 ousted King Idris, who among other concessions had let Standard Oil write Libya’s petroleum laws. Gadhafi’s defiance of Western commercial interests, which saw the nationalization of foreign banks and foreign companies, along with the oil industry, as well as the closure of U.S. and British air bases, will be reversed. The despotic and collapsed or collapsing regimes in Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Syria once found their revolutionary legitimacy in the pan-Arabism of Egypt’s Gamal Abdel Nasser. But these regimes fell victim to their own corruption, decay and brutality. None were worth defending. Their disintegration, however, heralds a return of the corporate and imperial power that spawned figures like Nasser and will spawn his radical 21st century counterparts.

Libya: Here We Go Again

Monday 5 September 2011
by: Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed

http://www.truthout.com/libya-here-we-go-a...

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LIBYA: Rebels execute black immigrants while forces kidnap others

http://somalilandpress.com/libya-rebels-ex...

"Many Africans have virtually nothing after years in Libya, many have been looted, robbed, while others saw their living quarters and apartments go in flames. Now they are praying to God to send them home.
While the international leaders are busy drafting resolutions to dismantle Muammar Gaddafi, the African Union has not yet commented on the situation in Libya.

Meanwhile, the International Criminal Court is said to have started a formal inquiry into possible crimes against humanity in Libya that will investigate the Libyan regime."

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JohnPilger.com
8 September 2011

http://johnpilger.com/articles/hail-to-the...

..."I quote that not so much for its Orwellian quality but as a model of journalism's role in justifying "our" bloodbaths in advance.
This is Rupert's Revolution, after all. Gone from the Murdoch press are pejorative "insurgents". The action in Libya, says The Times, is "a revolution... as revolutions used to be". That it is a coup by a gang of Muammar Gaddafi's ex cronies and spooks in collusion with Nato is hardly news.

The self-appointed "rebel leader", Mustafa Abdul Jalil, was Gaddafi's feared justice minister. The CIA runs or bankrolls most of the rest, including America's old friends, the Mujadeen Islamists who spawned al-Qaeda.
They told journalists what they needed to know: that Gaddafi was about to commit "genocide", of which there was no evidence, unlike the abundant evidence of "rebel" massacres of black African workers falsely accused of being mercenaries. European bankers' secret transfer of the Central Bank of Libya from Tripoli to "rebel" Benghazi by European bankers in order to control the country's oil billions was an epic heist of little .

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Sirte a 'living hell,' says aid group

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/co...

Tuesday 04 October 2011 by Our Foreign Desk Printable Email

A Red Cross team finally entered the besieged Libyan town of Sirte yesterday and delivered urgently needed surgical supplies to treat about 200 wounded people.

Nato has repeatedly targeted Sirte in its seven-month bombing campaign that enabled armed rebels to topple the government of Muammar Gadaffi and gain control of most of the oil-rich state.

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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...
bvar22:

The Untold Story in Libya:

How The West Cooked Up The People's Uprising

http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/08/31/now-that-... ... /

The Global Disaster Capitalists never let a good disaster go to waste.
In the case of Libya, they used their Enforcement Arm (NATO & The US Military) to CREATE a disaster where there was none.

” For all his dictatorial megalomania, Gaddafi is a committed pan-African - a fierce defender of African unity. Libya was not in debt to international bankers. It did not borrow cash from the International Monetary Fund for any "structural adjustment". It used oil money for social services - including the Great Man Made River project, and investment/aid to sub-Saharan countries. Its independent central bank was not manipulated by the Western financial system. All in all a very bad example for the developing world.”

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/M...

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Libya: Oil, Banks, Water, the United Nations, and America’s Holy Crusade by Felicity Arbuthnot

Posted on April 5, 2011 by dandelionsalad

.."The country was commended: “for the progress made in the achievement of the Millennium Development Goals, namely universal primary education (and) firm commitment (to) health care.” There was “praise” for “cooperation with international organizations in combating human trafficking and corruption ..” and for cooperation with “the International Organization for Migration.”

“Progress in enjoyment of economic and social rights, including in the areas of education, health care, poverty reduction and social welfare” with “measures taken to promote transparency”, were also cited. Malaysia: “Commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for being party to a significant number of international and regional human rights instruments.” Promotion: “of the rights of persons with disabilities” and praise for “measures taken with regard to low income families”, were cited...

.."So how does the all tie together? Libya, in March being praised by the Majority of the UN., for human rights progress across the board, to being the latest, bombarded international pariah? A nation’s destruction enshrined in a UN., Resolution?
The answer lies in part with the Geneva based UN Watch.(vii) UN Watch is : “a non-governmental organization whose mandate is to monitor the performance of the United Nations.” With Consultative Status to the UN Economic and Social Council, with ties to the UN Department of Public Information, “UN Watch is affiliated with the American Jewish Committee.” (AJC.)"

http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2011/0... /

Interesting ..... the involvement in HR Watch of persons whose core values include securing energy resources. All this horror and destruction brought about BY LIES - submitted to the ICC by the UN who got their 'numbers and crimes' from the NTC Prime Minister - 'word to ear'.


Same old, same old ........... apply it to Ukraine - eerily similar.

This article speaks about that: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nikolas-kozloff/crimea-and-the-left-its-a_b_4943494.html

(BTW many of the links in the long text you pasted in your reply are dead)

?w=360&h=235

Sarkozy, good friend of Gadaffi.

of the world fascinates me ...

about. From what I am hearing, you have single-handedly, well almost single-handedly, helped to educate people here on the ACTUAL situation in Ukraine regarding our very own Neocons, including former Cheney National Security Adviser, Victoria Nuland.

Nuland, McCain, why do we have people here supporting Neocon war mongers? That is the question and you have been very helpful in providing an answer to that question.

Please continue ...

Puff yourself up all you want, nobody here, (except you 5) are reading your RT bullshit. They are all coming here to see my posts, for I am the "postmaster". Now back to the depths of RT for you!!

years!!

'Nobody here'!!

Lol, this is better than the Comedy Channel.

Mandela was also a 'Gadaffi lover'! Probably a Pootie and RT lover also.

Did you know that?

Nuland's friend, Cheney didn't like him very much. The War Criminal, Cheney supported Apartheid, Nuland's Friend, that is.

Saw Mandela on RT btw.

He was a great man.

I doubt he shared many of your 'views' whatever they are.

?w=584

Or Berlusconi perhaps?

?w=584

Gordan Brown maybe?

?w=584

Or Spain's, Zappatero?

?w=584&h=388

Or how about our own President?

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Or Nelson Mandela, who called Gadaffi 'Brother' and never deserted him, remembering how Gadaffi helped his people fight Apartheid which he reminded the world of after the war crime committed in Libya against his friend?



There are more, so why not ask all these world leaders rather than Polly who as far as I know, doesn't have much say in anything?

Is Mandela some kind of moron or maybe he knows more than the average American?

How about Bishop Tutu? Also called Gadaffi 'Brother' and mourned his death.

Do you have any more questions?